Back in the East STEF78 (Axis) Oshawott (USSR)

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: STEF78

Maybe a checkerboard is a better solution but I'm not sure. I don't like losing units!

I'd say in the situation the last thing you can afford is to lose units - at some stage the front will shorten radically (ok this is not really good news as it means the Soviets are in East Prussia), but for the moment, I'd suspect you need every counter you can manage on the map?

Especially:

ORIGINAL: Oshawott

...

Overall I would say that your ability to put walls of units and forts in front of my spearheads is amazing. But in the end the Germans just don't have enough troops just like it was in the real war. It must have been a desperate feeling for the Germans.

...

this is in part what is making this AAR quite addictive to follow, Stef is doing a great job stalling and stopping the Soviets where he can, but is clearly at the edge of something going horribly wrong and an entire Army/Army Group getting trapped.

[morvael]

I hate when the front gets shorter on the Vistula line. I have two rows of 3 corps plus two rows of smaller units behind them. Half of the army doesn't fight (hard to get reserve activation). At least it's now possible to use leapfrogging movement (first line attacks, second captures ground) in case of poor MP limits at start of turn.

[jwolf]

I would think a checkerboard defense for the Germans would be disastrous.  You would lose a few divisions for sure and that is exactly what you're trying to avoid.  For the Soviets in the early war this could work -- lose a small number to save a greater number -- but the Germans don't have that kind of manpower reserve.  But I admit I am rather inexperienced; if a veteran Axis player can vouch for a checkerboard type of strategy I would be interested to hear it.

[caliJP]

STEF I think what works well is to have the hex right behind the front line be FL 2 or 3. Then the one behind that should be FL1 and digging to be FL2 next turn. A good mix of Panzer and Motorized units in reserve mode, FZs, allies in the South, regiment level units and units needing some R&R can be used to create this defense in depth. It is extremely hard (actually almost impossible) for the soviets at least until 1944 to go through more than 2 layers of well dug-in German units. Soviet units only have one deliberate attack in them per turn, except Tank corps, but Tank Corps by themselves aren't good at pushing units in forts. So as long as your front line units have a hex behind them with a good FL, they most likely will be only pushed one hex per turn.
Sometimes it is potentially more advantageous to reduce your front line from a 3-stack to a 2-stack or a 2-div-stack + regiment so you can free up some regiments to dig behind the line.

[STEF78]

ORIGINAL: Oshawott

You might be overestimating tank mobility of the Russians. At this point they have half the mobility of a good German Panzer division.

It seemed to me that russians motorized corps had 50MP? Am I wrong?

[STEF78]

ORIGINAL: caliJP

STEF I think what works well is to have the hex right behind the front line be FL 2 or 3. Then the one behind that should be FL1 and digging to be FL2 next turn. A good mix of Panzer and Motorized units in reserve mode, FZs, allies in the South, regiment level units and units needing some R&R can be used to create this defense in depth. It is extremely hard (actually almost impossible) for the soviets at least until 1944 to go through more than 2 layers of well dug-in German units. Soviet units only have one deliberate attack in them per turn, except Tank corps, but Tank Corps by themselves aren't good at pushing units in forts. So as long as your front line units have a hex behind them with a good FL, they most likely will be only pushed one hex per turn.
Sometimes it is potentially more advantageous to reduce your front line from a 3-stack to a 2-stack or a 2-div-stack + regiment so you can free up some regiments to dig behind the line.

It works if you have already 2 lines of fort built. It wasn't the case in the north I didn't thought that Oshawott would be that strong in the north.

Reserve activation is almost Worthless at this stage of the game, unless if you can get a full pz div activated.

I agree with using regiments to dig in.

[STEF78]

Turn 110, 22th july 1943


Dvina

Bad news, the river is crossed. I'm really too weak here!



Kiev

Bad luck, also too weak here



South

Always heavy fights

[Oshawott]

It seemed to me that russians motorized corps had 50MP? Am I wrong?

Yes, that is true but they have to spend more MP moving through terrain. It costs a good German Panzer division 2 MP to go through clear terrain but it costs a Russian Tank Corps 4 MP. This will change with morale.

[STEF78]

ORIGINAL: Oshawott

It seemed to me that russians motorized corps had 50MP? Am I wrong?

Yes, that is true but they have to spend more MP moving through terrain. It costs a good German Panzer division 2 MP to go through clear terrain but it costs a Russian Tank Corps 4 MP. This will change with morale.

It gives potentially a breakthrough up to 12 hexes behind my lines! That's already too much. 6 to 8 are enough to cause great damages

[smokindave34]

ORIGINAL: STEF78

It works if you have already 2 lines of fort built. It wasn't the case in the north I didn't thought that Oshawott would be that strong in the north.

Reserve activation is almost Worthless at this stage of the game, unless if you can get a full pz div activated.

I agree with using regiments to dig in.

This is the most dangerous time for the axis - your lines are still relatively long (and hence not a lot of defense in depth) and there is clear weather that would allow Oshawott to exploit any breakthroughs he may have. Your primary goal for the summer is not to lose a lot of units - if you can pull that off then once your lines shorten you can setup your lines with two to three infantry divsions per hex in front with strong panzers/mech divisions in a second line (level 2 forts of course with a minimum on reserve since it doesn't help anyway) that will make it very difficult for a breakthrough. I've finished three GC's as axis and once I had pulled back to Poland the Soviet offensive slowed considerably - if you survive this summer with no pockets formed by the Soviets you should have a strong defense to throw at Oshawott. The other advantage you will have is that Oshawott is going to have a good portion of his army sitting on the sidelines - there just aren't enough hexes to get all the Soviet units involved. Good luck Field Marshall!

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: STEF78

ORIGINAL: caliJP

Stef I am surprised by the sudden retreats across section of fronts by many hexes in one turn. You have a 4m army with almost 4000 tanks, it seems you could make it harder for Oshawott to progress by retreating only very slowly. Yes you'll feel like a punching ball, but mid-43 through 44 it seems the Germans can replace losses fairly well. Your most precious asset is space and time, it seems that should be defended at all costs.

That's the main question for the germans. What should be the rate of trading space against time?

Maybe I'm too cautious but I don't underestimate the mobility of russians tank/mech units. When I have holes in my front or 3 hexes wide with only 1 level or below of forts, it's time to give ground. My first line could be pushed with hasty attacks and the the hole exploited by his mech units.

I don't show all the odds but against not well entrenched units he easily get odds > 7/1. That's really dangerous.

Ground shouldn't be defended at all costs. I did this mistakes against Schascha end august 1944 and the cost was 20 divs, the backbone of my northern defence. I want to avoid it as much as possible

At the moment, he his attacking on 4 axes and I'm not strong enough to stop him on these 4 points. I can still choose where I accept to let him advance.

I basicly use this formula

Turn 115—————Armaments: 0,000----------------- 96 turns left of which 24 are mud.
The shortest distance to Berlins is 930 miles. Manpower in Pool: 27,000

GHC has a buffer of +3 not counting Mud, which puts it at + 27. So I can if I wish to start withdrawing 1 hex per turn the lines would still be 300 miles west of Berlin, but I will have to wait for the patched in conversions to kick in first during mud 122-127.


you defend the shortest route to Berlin with your best troops and most FZ's. In the south you can give allot more space for time.
This game we before all the bugs that I bitched about for close to 6 months was finally found.

[Peltonx]

Turn 130 ————— 81 turns to go with 18 being mud. The shortest distance to Berlin 800 miles.

I have a buffer of 190 miles or 19 hexes.

Russian OOB: 8,080,000
A net gain of: +320,000

GHC OOB: 3,207,000
GHC net OOB change: + 57,000

Ready Rifle Squads: 42,300 Net: + 300

Air War

Ratio: 5 : 1

GHC loses: 600
SHC loses: 3000

GHC loses: 12,200
SHC loses: 51,400

Just been retreating 10miles per turn the shortest distance to Berlin. Now that snow and blizzard have hit its very hard for SHC to get deliberate attacks. The Tempo has slowed down enough that my rifle squads has been basicly static for the last 15 turns.

Other areas of the front that are 80+ hexes to Berlin I am retreating 20 to 30 miles per week.

[Peltonx]

Does not look like you have space to trade, sorry.

If you can not hold the line until September 1943, based on my exp and watching other games your not going to get a draw.

The winter becomes your friend after 41 as it slows the SHC advance.

Also it does not appear you are taking full advantage of RR from the looks of your over all set up. This tactic can hold the SHC from breaking your forward lines for 6 months andways. This delay is what allows you to be able to trade space for time.

Good Luck with your game you will need it.

[Wuffer]

Fine, but you missed one critical point, Pelton: The defender must have killer instinct on the basic niveau of a r-bat to survive. (you could scratch a little "-b", but I did not want to be unpolitely)

As soon as he finitely lost the initiative in Chausewitz' terms , the German defender has only one chance last - to drive his opponent nuts.

Visions and meanings would differ, that's fine, but for me you are clearly the psychological winner in a match with would became famous for the longest, earliest, most honourless' and calculated retreat of all times.


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[STEF78]

ORIGINAL: smokindave34


This is the most dangerous time for the axis - your lines are still relatively long (and hence not a lot of defense in depth) and there is clear weather that would allow Oshawott to exploit any breakthroughs he may have. Your primary goal for the summer is not to lose a lot of units - if you can pull that off then once your lines shorten you can setup your lines with two to three infantry divsions per hex in front with strong panzers/mech divisions in a second line (level 2 forts of course with a minimum on reserve since it doesn't help anyway) that will make it very difficult for a breakthrough. I've finished three GC's as axis and once I had pulled back to Poland the Soviet offensive slowed considerably - if you survive this summer with no pockets formed by the Soviets you should have a strong defense to throw at Oshawott. The other advantage you will have is that Oshawott is going to have a good portion of his army sitting on the sidelines - there just aren't enough hexes to get all the Soviet units involved. Good luck Field Marshall!

Thanks for these good advices but I played only one GC entering 1944 and I proved to be a disaster. I'm really not confident.

And even right now august 1943, my front isn"t that far from cracking....

[STEF78]

ORIGINAL: Pelton

If you can not hold the line until September 1943, based on my exp and watching other games your not going to get a draw.

Good Luck with your game you will need it.

As already stated, I'm perfectly aware that this game is lost. My bet is still that it will finished summer 1944

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: STEF78

ORIGINAL: Pelton

If you can not hold the line until September 1943, based on my exp and watching other games your not going to get a draw.

Good Luck with your game you will need it.

As already stated, I'm perfectly aware that this game is lost. My bet is still that it will finished summer 1944

Sorry been gone for a long time and tring to get back up to date with things.

I have lost a few myself, won and have a bunch of draws. Game will be different once 1.08 is finished.

We learn as much if not more from losses/draws then wins.

Your OOB does look good for this time of yr which means that allot of swapping bugs each have been fixed. So I am guessing if you can shorten the lines as SD34 has stated you could last into 45.

[STEF78]

Turn 111, 29th july 1943

Painful decisions must be taken. I weakens strongly the landbridge by transferring the XXXth PzK on Dvina. I want to avoid a too fast extension of the bridgehead



A more closest view of the Dvina bridgehead



And the counterattack

[STEF78]

Turn 111, 29th july 1943

Kiev

The Dniepr is crossed, this sector becomes worrying



South

Always heavy fights. The ratio for AFV losses isn't good

[loki100]

realise its the least of your problems, but one wonders if Oshawatt's partisans will ever get bored of blowing everything up?

You seem to be taking quite a risk in Bielorussia ... is it not time to accept that both on the Dvina and on the Berezina he's turned your lines and pull back more radically?