TGW v1.8 playtest

[sPzAbt653]

The Soviets had no problems railing troops around during 1941 ... So denying the Soviets of any rail capacity at all would fly in the face of history.

Were they railing troops to some defensive positions further to the east, or were they railing troops to the west to counterattack ? [Rhetorical]. So by having no rail cap and newly raised formations arriving in the western districts, I would think the scenario would be flying with history.

... denying replacements would not be proper since these people had already joined the cause. If anything they should receive MORE replacements for holding on to cities.

Say for example, new 13th Army divisions arrive at Minsk on turn x, so if the Axis occupy the arrival hex before turn x then those divisions don't arrive.

Some of these guys shouldn't even have a proficiency of 20.

Especially if they are running 400 miles to the rear ! Well, we are starting them at 40%, and the mobile units are nuetered. We'll have to see how that works out when two players have a go at it.

Perhaps give the Soviet maximum lines of retreat ...

I had thoughts in the past about using exclusion zones for this, but it seems a bit contrived. I mean, if we go that far, why not start the scenario in December 1941 so the players don't have to put up with the mundane opening of the campaign ?

Also do away with the gamey German tactic of running ant units all over the map to cut off the Soviets.

We are making a valiant effort in this regard, but its difficult.

[Lobster]

It doesn't matter where they were sending them. East, west, north south. They have the rail capacity. Make a house rule. No one moves farther east than the farthest west German unit on the map excluding the area north of Leningrad inclusive. Then throw in a ten hex freedom of movement zone from the farthest east German unit extending to the east. Outside of this area units can only move north, south and west. You could even break that up to north of Pripyat River and south of Pripyat River.

As for the 13th Army. All of the divisions assigned to it by 1 July were already on the map. There is no need for them to appear at Minsk.

40% might be okay for some units, say something like the 24th 'Iron' Rifle Division. In fact, many of the Rifle Divisions assigned to 13th Army by 1 July are veteran units. The most notable exception is the 20th 'Mech Corps'. It had just formed up. They were armored and moto divisions in name only. I might give them the proficiency of an armed mob.

[larryfulkerson]

There's a large pocket down south near D-town and Z-town and Kherson that I've been working on the last couple of turns.
I'm just about to complete the surround on them and start the mop-up. There's another large pocket being made up north
but it doesn't have as many enemy units in it.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the Leningrad area now. I'm assaulting Leningrad's city hex but I don't have much hope that the Soviets will give it
up easily.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the front lines near Moscow now ( T45 ). I'm busting through the Soviet lines slowly. It's like they have run out of
units or something.

[sPzAbt653]

To be honest, the Soviets called up 5 million reserves and had and additional 5 million volunteers almost immediately. That's 10 million troops right off the bat. While it may be alright to do something to make the Soviets hold on to cities, denying replacements would not be proper since these people had already joined the cause. If anything they should receive MORE replacements for holding on to cities.

Thanks for bringing this up, because I hadn't thought of it that way. I flipped thru some of Glantz' stuff and didn't see him make any claims as to the Soviets being crippled due to the Axis advance. In one place he says it may have 'hindered' mobilization, but it 'sped up' the overall process. So we'll stay clear of any mechanisms that would penalize the Soviets for losing territory. The loss of factory made items due to the relocation of those factories will still be in place.

[larryfulkerson]

There's a large pocket in the middle of the map that is already in the mop-up stages. I'm guessing that several turns will be
required to reduce it. By then more Soviet units will appear at the front lines to replace them.

[Michael T]

The loss of manpower as a penalty is meant to be disincentive to running. If you don't like it that way then the most realistic method is sudden death.

As Stalin would have simply arrested any General who disobeyed his orders to stand and fight. So the 'player' who runs should just loose the game. Hence sudden death. To make the game work you need some really severe penalties that force the Soviet to fight in the manner that they did historically, at least in the first few months of Barbarossa. Otherwise your game will fall in the same old pattern that any intelligent player will do. Which is run.

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: Michael T
The loss of manpower as a penalty is meant to be disincentive to running. If you don't like it that way then the most realistic method is sudden death.

I'm not sure I agree. I'm no expert however so my expert opinion doesn't mean much but I'm wondering if we can't just park the
Soviet units in garrison mode which releases at a staggered mode going eastward. So they can't run, move, or attack for a while.

Here's what's happening around Moscow now. I'm finding holes in the front lines and flowing into them.

[sPzAbt653]

I'm wondering if we can't just park the Soviet units in garrison mode which releases at a staggered mode going eastward.

Barbarossa '41 did something similar. We might be able to do something like that.

Brilliant !!

[larryfulkerson]

Leningrad finally fell. I'm guessing the Finns might be released now? We'll see.

[larryfulkerson]

It's only the 3rd of May and Stalingrad is slowly creeping closer. It may be possible yet.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the front lines in T47. I'm in the process of making a large pocket on the west side of Moscow. Elmer is continually
trying to back the units out of danger and the lines are creaping toward Moscow. Losses are mounting for both sides.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the Moscow area in T48. I'm sneaking in from the northwest and unless there's somebody to oppose me I intend to drive
right into the heart of Moscow.

[larryfulkerson]

I found another hole in the lines down south and I'm going to try to roll up the Soviet defenders and THEN drive on Stalingrad.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's how the air war is going right now. I'm guessing the Soviets are flying three-dot missions while I'm doing two-dot
missions.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's what the south of Moscow looks like in T49:

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the Stalingrad area now. I'm running the Axis minor country units into the vacuum left by the Soviet units.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the front lines in T50

[larryfulkerson]

Here's what it looks like south of Moscow