question

whitefirefox · Post by **whitefirefox** » Fri Apr 18, 2003 4:15 am

bleh ok so you caught me on the BT thing so sue me

EDIT: and no ive never played the table top version because i can't find any copies of the manuals or anything else needed for play no comic book stores in the area that i know about

tarendelcymir · Post by **tarendelcymir** » Fri Apr 18, 2003 4:29 am

Originally posted by whitefirefox
bleh ok so you caught me on the BT thing so sue me

EDIT: and no ive never played the table top version because i can't find any copies of the manuals or anything else needed for play no comic book stores in the area that i know about

I keep telling you all...don't argue with Iceman. He's always right.

Too bad about the table top BT - it's really quite fun. I hope you do find it sometime.

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Fri Apr 18, 2003 4:47 am

I just replied to a request for a comp version of the board game. I think (can't recall) that in one of the sites at least there's some documentation about board game rules. If you search BT sites, you'll surely find them. I'm pretty sure the BattleTech 3025 project's manual has the board rules. Not sure if the CBT (Classic BattleTech) site has them.
I still have the very first manual, in which there was only one autocannon, and the only 'Mechs were the "unseen" ones.

Arguing is healthy, you just can't say whatever you feel like and expect to get away with it. Not while I'm around anyway

whitefirefox · Post by **whitefirefox** » Fri Apr 18, 2003 4:49 am

oh be quiet you've already killed my self-confidence enough for one day haven't you?

EDIT: every time i post in here it seems like i get shot down by thorgrim larkin or hetz.........mabey i should just stop posting al together -_-'

LarkinVB · Post by **LarkinVB** » Fri Apr 18, 2003 10:58 am

There is something very unique in most of your posts which seems to trigger a certain reaction in some of us. At least in me. My replies are motivated by trying to improve the noise/signal ratio on this board.

ekohippi · Post by **ekohippi** » Fri Apr 18, 2003 11:47 am

Well, this conv. flared up the boards. Good.. now we need the acitivity in the other threads too..

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Foxie, I'd love to play MW4, but alas my comp is from stone age. I can't even run MC2...gathering money for a new one, but....
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Hell no IS weapons. I go full clanner weaps all the time. But I dislike Gauss 'cos for it's ammo problem. I just like Energy weapons in BT more. And making a headshot in MWs is nearly impossible. Gotta have huge luck to blow the head from long to mid range.

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Fri Apr 18, 2003 2:08 pm

Well, wff, gotta hand it to you, you said what I felt like saying: BE QUIET!

By all means, stop posting whenever you feel like. At least until you grow up a little and have more interesting things to say. You aren't interested in the board game, you just tried to look good and fell face first. Larkin may "have" to moderate things here, but I don't have that handicap

As for eko's reply, well, if you know the BT universe, you know why Clan weapons are way more powerful than IS ones. In the board game, that is counterbalanced by different unit sizes and different deployment "strengths" (Clan pilots are also better than IS ones). In the computer games, well, those people do whatever they want with the universe to crank out a new game every now and then.
The problem with the gauss rifle is not with its ammo, which doesn't explode like in ToS. It's the coil that might explode.

But enough about BT, this is the ToS forum

ekohippi · Post by **ekohippi** » Fri Apr 18, 2003 2:43 pm

Well, with ammo problem, I meant the low amount of ammo a mech can carry for a Gauss.
Yes, it is true that I've never got my hands on board version, sad but true. Also I lack a group of people interested in BT and the like

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Sat Apr 19, 2003 6:43 pm

Originally posted by ekohippi
And making a headshot in MWs is nearly impossible. Gotta have huge luck to blow the head from long to mid range.

In the board game, a 'Mech's head can have a max of 9 armor points (and 3 internal structure). If head shots were easy, how would you qualify the game then?

tarendelcymir · Post by **tarendelcymir** » Sun Apr 20, 2003 6:14 am

The relatively low amount of ammo per ton a gauss cannon can carry makes more sense in the board game, too. You're not really (usually) expected to be fighting vast hordes of opponents on your own, there. Computer games always have what amounts to ludicrous odds against you. Sure, if you have to take on thirty enemy mechs on your own, you're going to need more ammo than 8 per ton can feasibly get you, but how realistic are those odds?

ekohippi · Post by **ekohippi** » Sun Apr 20, 2003 4:15 pm

Not that great, I know

But that's the point that killed the use of Gauss in any MW/MC I've played. That goes to almost every other ammo based weapon.

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Sun Apr 20, 2003 5:52 pm

I used them in MC2. Shadow Cats are evil... and all those pesky Hollanders swarming you.

whitefirefox · Post by **whitefirefox** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 1:36 am

well it kinda depends on what your facing

if its a small hoarde of lights or mediums that ammo might be able to cut it but hey thats my opinion

tarendelcymir · Post by **tarendelcymir** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 6:48 am

Originally posted by whitefirefox
well it kinda depends on what your facing

if its a small hoarde of lights or mediums that ammo might be able to cut it but hey thats my opinion

Exactly. If you're facing somewhat reasonable odds, two dozen gauss rifle rounds is plenty, since a good hit from one (BT rules) can tear a limb or head clean off a smaller mech.

ekohippi · Post by **ekohippi** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 1:37 pm

Well, so does a PPC and I recall they take about the same space...dunno about MC2, since my ancient stone age machine isn't good enough to run it.

tarendelcymir · Post by **tarendelcymir** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 8:19 pm

Originally posted by ekohippi
Well, so does a PPC and I recall they take about the same space...dunno about MC2, since my ancient stone age machine isn't good enough to run it.

Sure, but the PPC overheats you faster than sprinting in the Sahara.

For every weapons, there's a tradeoff. Otherwise it wouldn't be balanced.

whitefirefox · Post by **whitefirefox** » Tue Apr 22, 2003 10:59 pm

MC2 doesn't give you a very good feel for using mechs infact far from it

for starters the mechs never run out of ammo (i think they did in MC1 not sure though)

secondly the mech can't overheat

and thirdly you could call down all kinds of support unitsl ike repair trucks tanks and the like which kinda over pwoers the player

and equipping the mechs is so very simple being instead of a set number of slots in each body part you just have a block of space (ranging from about 2x4 to i believe in the ara of 6x5 or 5x5) and the only limits are the ma weight and the amount of "total heat" generated (each weapon except machine guns armor and heatsinks increased heat you could only have upto a certain amount kinda like a second weight limit)

tarendelcymir: well duh thats why you don't usually fire all of your PPC's at once and add extra heat sinks (plus extra guns like small lasers, SRMS and, machine guns/ac2's don't hurt either (well not you anyway))

ekohippi · Post by **ekohippi** » Tue Apr 22, 2003 11:12 pm

The heatsystem is replaced with loading times in MC1 and the weapons sure do run out of ammo (guess why I ain't that much of a Gauss freak?? Cos the amounts of enemies you get compared to the tiny 8 ammo load..)

In MW (2&3) if I use PPCs, I sure do fire them all at once. It takes my mech to shutdown, but it is more than possible it will rip the enemy in pieces with one shutdown shot (in MW3). Last time I finished MW3 I made an Annihilator with 4 C\Er PPCs and the lance mates had Annihilators and Thors and other biggies with 3 C\Er PPCs. Worked like a charm (well, not in the thermal plant, but in any other map).

wff I have never found any use for small lasers. The only use I can come up with them is to have something like 16 of them and shoot them all at once to the legs...I prefer medium lasers if I need lasers at all. But SRMs are great and so are machine guns.

tarendelcymir · Post by **tarendelcymir** » Tue Apr 22, 2003 11:32 pm

Originally posted by whitefirefox

tarendelcymir: well duh thats why you don't usually fire all of your PPC's at once and add extra heat sinks (plus extra guns like small lasers, SRMS and, machine guns/ac2's don't hurt either (well not you anyway))

Right, so you just proved my point. If you want PPCs instead of Gauss rifles, you have to add extra heat sinks, and not fire them all at once. That's the tradeoff. If you have Gauss rifles, you need extra space for ammo, but you can shoot them all at once without overheating. It's always the balance, which is the point I was making.

whitefirefox · Post by **whitefirefox** » Tue Apr 22, 2003 11:32 pm

ekohippi: well small lasers are fast and generate relatively less heat than the bigger ones (that and ive notice that they do more total damage every 5 seconds than either medium or large lasers) but yes i agree you need alot of them to do any real noticable damage imidatley

you like machine guns? i hate those :p i think there just a waste of space when fighting against anything bigger than a medium because you jsut can't get enough damage in fast enough camporatively to an AC2 or AC5 (plus there range is so short :p)

and in MW4: Mercs you really can't get any "battleship" mechs because they use specified hardpoints for weapons (meaning you have a set number of spaces for missles ballistics and energy weapons)