::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J)

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ORIGINAL: bomccarthy

Reinforcements: It's May 43!!! This means a few new airframes including the slightly worse version of the already abysmal Wildcat, the FM-1. How did they take two 50cal MG off the pane and the stats for speed, climb and maneuver stay the same?!?

I worry as all CVE are doomed to using the kittens for the duration. Maybe I can use some replenishment groups on them with Hellcats? I seem to suffer with those a lot, and I remember questions about whether they have some kind of combat penalty? Anyone know?

I’ve been following the forum silently for the past 3+ years, since starting my first GC against the AI, picking up a lot of critical game tips and historical notes. And now, I have my own historical note to add – the USN used F6F squadrons on some CVEs throughout the war, primarily on the Sangamon and Commencement Bay ships, but occasionally on the other classes as well. This practice started with the Gilbert Islands campaign, when jeep carriers operated F6Fs in support of the invasion (I first saw this in Dean’s America’s Hundred Thousand, and cross-referenced it with Location of U.S. Naval Aircraft for the corresponding weeks -- history.navy.mil/research/histories/naval-aviation-history/location-of-us-naval-aircraft-world-war-ii/1943/16-nov-1943.html, for example). If you examine some of the Location weekly reports throughout the war, you’ll find that the Sangamon CVEs seemed to have F6F squadrons aboard most of the time, and they’re not being used as replacements.

I know that some Internet sources assert that the Bogue and Casablanca ships couldn’t handle F6Fs; however, the Location weekly reports will sometime show regular VF squadrons equipped with Hellcats aboard them. And if you are trying to stay close to historical capabilities, don’t forget to add Marine F4U squadrons to your Commencement Bay CVEs in early 1945 – they eventually supported the Okinawa and Balikpapan operations.

As far as the discrepancy between the F4F-4 and FM-1 (fewer guns, yet same performance), Dean states that the FM-1 was actually 75-100 pounds heavier than the F4F-4. I don’t know if GM re-engineered the FM-1 for automotive-style mass production (as they did with the FM-2 and the TBM), but some weight crept into the new model.

Thanks. That's great info. I love the detail and I just read 'Freedom's Forge,' all about the mass-production of military goods, much of it centered around the car industry. I learned a lot about Gm and Ford and Crysler and what they started making in the war. This wasn't in there though, so it's god to have my curiosity satisfied on the FM-1.

Stop by more often! [:)]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

That's great info and a super first post - welcome!

The real problem Eric is going to have is that his game if PDU=OFF, so if the F6F is not in the upgrade path for those squadrons, he's out of luck.

witpqs is right here. I'm thinking of the upgrade paths.

Just looked and some of the VRF groups get them while some don't.

Upgrade to Hellcats;

(28 planes per)

VRF-1F
VRF-2F
VRF-3F

Do not upgrade to Hellcats;

VRF-5F
VRF-6F

Another interesting thing relevant to your post is that the Sangamon class groups that I have so far do get the Hellcat!!! So that is great.

(21 planes per)

VF-60
VF-35
VF-37

[Lowpe]

Hey, you just have to keep playing until you get the Bearcat![:D]

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ORIGINAL: JocMeister

I think there are 3 different TOEs besides the US one. Doesn´t make much difference though. The low replacement rates of anything Chinese besides Squads pretty much means all Corps will end up with only Squads anyway. [:)]

Respawning Corps also come back without guns unless something changed recently.

These pics are from May 9, 1943! [:)]

I've been sequestering a few of the good ones for the defense of Chungking. The 14th has decent experience too. The 97th is late arrival so hasn't seen combat yet. Trying to get it's experience up but that may happen soon since Nick just invested Chungking.

Many units have run low on guns, for sure, and a lot of them are now zombies heading west. Those don't gt any guns, but have the 43 squads. The good ones are all around Chungking and on the gray road to the East.

I'll be going through and culling shattered units for good commanders it heh next few turns and getting the into the units around Chungking. Most have good ones already (for China) but there are few that have it all.

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ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Hey, you just have to keep playing until you get the Bearcat![:D]

The other CVE groups don't get the Bearcat either!! [;)]

The FM-2 is as good as it gets. I guess it's all about numbers with those!

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ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: obvert

[font="Times New Roman"]Chinese Corps[/font]

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I got to thinking after the discussion about China. I remember that several units were very different than the majority. Here is what I mean. I'm not on the computer and I don't think this is just how many replacements they've taken relative to each other. I think the TOE is different. I'll have to get in and check. Just wanted to post to see if this is familiar to Allied players or something that might be in DBB only.

The 14th is stronger across the board but especially in AT guns. Pretty important difference there with 3x as many.

Don't know if it is a design that is fitted into the game but Chang basically doled out the most supplies to units where he felt the commander was politically reliable. Did not have to be a good commander. A lot of Chinese army units consisted of troops that fought for former (or current) warlords-many who had been fighting against him in the previous Civil War. And the generals were these warlords. A lot of these armies did not get any equipment from the central government and had to make do with what they could capture or make own their own. As for American equipment, what little there was went to the forces under quasi American control in India and Burma. Virtually no supply was delivered to regular Chinese troops. Most of the supply flown over the hump was for the 14th air force.

That makes sense. Again an amazing level of detail! [&o]

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ORIGINAL: Yaab

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), op mode(-), preparation(-), fatigue(-)
morale(-), experience(-), supply(-)

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Haven't seen a fight with so many negative modifiers yet!


As for the Chinese, there are some corps which use US Equipped TOE - they are bigger, but somewhat harder to fill. BTW, you have an LTC commanding the 14th Corps. There are but a few Chinese LTCs eligible to lead corps. Normally, they lead A/B/C divisions. LTC Sung C. is probably one of the best Chinese leaders available - the Chinese commanders mostly max out at 66-67 in leader stats.

Most of those units are tiny fragments pushed from Kunming to Paoshan. Lots of bad stuff there, yes.

I worry about LTC Sing C's aggression. Everything else is great. For the Chinese, yes, I'll take it. [:)]

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The night phase began with subs from both sides missing, but showing what was to come.

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The BBS tok the heat from the Mili fort and dished some back, knocking out a good amount of the remaining big guns before the troops hit the beach.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: obvert


The other CVE groups don't get the Bearcat either!! [;)]

I like the Bearcat in my Downfall game. Wish I had more of them flying around. They look neat.[:)] Graphically that is.

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This is not what I wanted to see five hexes from the invasion hex!

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The day phase began without combat, which was a huge surprise. The number of search planes hitting CAP let me know something else was coming, though.

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The CVE wildcats and assorted LR CAP held and downed all but nine Betties.

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The slow old ladies held on and shot em up. No hits. [8D]

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On the other side of the world we got another kind of surprise. The first sweeps of Paoshan came in with a fury.

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Then Tojos!

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Then the biggest surprise so far!!! [X(]

Remember this is 5/43.

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These are not the A6M I'm used to! They tough and hit hard. He must have had some good pilots back there as well. These guys took out at least 10 Hellcats and 4 Corsairs before wearing out and getting mostly shot up. It seems we might have taken out about 17-18 of his, so still got a positive result at about 18:14. (estimating Hellcats from watching the replay, and pretty sure on the Corsairs)

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On the other side of the board again a few Japanese subs suffered punishment around Mili. Looks like the I-23 is a goner. Two Glens showed up on the ground destroyed list to confirm 1-2 subs sunk.

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After the bombardment by Japanese troops I had high hopes for this to be a one shot invasion.

[Lowpe]

A6M8 isn't much better than the A6M5c in stock, but I guess in your mod it is a little different. At least it is a Navy plane, and those pilots are dead or pows.

It seems one way to get an island defense is to have lots of units in the hopes that something survives...you may not get that base in one attack depending upon the forts.

I had 14 AV hold off over 200 AV of Yanks at Wake recently.