Pelton(Axis) vs S2_Tanker Axis Victory Resigned

[Joel Billings]

So my questions are:

1) What's the basic problem? Is it that the Allies get to invade too many times, too often?
2) Based on what you see, do you have suggestions for improvements?
3) It appears you have him bottled up in every case. Is he suffering transport losses? Is he looking at potential transport shortages?

[Peltonx]

This is no different then the HQBU spam from WitE.

I told you guys this sht would be the normal LONG ago.

The 4x CV defense BS needs to go it the same Middle Earth BS as 1v1=2v1 which was 100% Middle Earth 0 as in zero to do with history just wave the magic wand BS.

The hole invasion system is a complete joke.

Its so easy to exploit as you were told.

This should be about historical out comes not Middle Earth wave my magic wand BS.

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

So my questions are:

1) What's the basic problem? Is it that the Allies get to invade too many times, too often?

Allies can do way to many invasion at zero cost = 100 HQBU's at zero cost 1.02 WitE which has been fixed 1.08.2
It is IMPOSSIBLE to push allies back into the see because of 4x CV. What is this based on other then Middle Earth?


2) Based on what you see, do you have suggestions for improvements?

1. Lower transports and cargo ships.
2. No more Middle Earth 4x CV

3) It appears you have him bottled up in every case.


Realy? Denmark zip and he can invade in Southern France or South Western France

Is he suffering transport losses?

He does not need transports bro, you pick and area where there are few troops and drop of a few units get the beachhead because you cant defend 1000
miles of coast and then simly drop off troops. Hes lost only 226 troop ship for 5 invasions not counting Southern Italy

Is he looking at potential transport shortages?

You tell me.

[Peltonx]

Also the VP system is off the allies need some love.

The system is good and solid but off some

[carlkay58]

Pelton,

What I see happening is someone who is doing a lot of small invasions. Each of those invasions have been successfully stopped or tossed back by you. Your opponent is not concentrating forces and is getting nowhere.

Yes you are having to send troops all over Western Europe to keep him bottled up but there is not a single point of real threat to you. His strategy is not getting anywhere and he is having to keep his Amphib units with the landings in order to keep them supplied - otherwise they will be easy pickings for you. As it is he should be losing transports and cargo ships fairly quickly - although those are not reflected in VP totals.

I think what you are complaining about is the Allied CV adjustments for defending beach heads. If so you need to specify that because the game already restricts the Allies in performing invasions to the point that you have to know what you are doing in order to duplicate several of the invasion time tables that the Allies performed - especially in the Med.

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: carlkay58

Pelton,

What I see happening is someone who is doing a lot of small invasions. Each of those invasions have been successfully stopped or tossed back by you. Your opponent is not concentrating forces and is getting nowhere.

Yes you are having to send troops all over Western Europe to keep him bottled up but there is not a single point of real threat to you. His strategy is not getting anywhere and he is having to keep his Amphib units with the landings in order to keep them supplied - otherwise they will be easy pickings for you. As it is he should be losing transports and cargo ships fairly quickly - although those are not reflected in VP totals.

I think what you are complaining about is the Allied CV adjustments for defending beach heads. If so you need to specify that because the game already restricts the Allies in performing invasions to the point that you have to know what you are doing in order to duplicate several of the invasion time tables that the Allies performed - especially in the Med.

I disagree.

Spamming invasion is the way to go just as spamming HQBU's was in the day.

Lets get real.

Allies can simply invade Holland turn 10-20 and the games over, because of garrison rules Germany can not do anything to stop it.

The terrain in Holland is not historical as has been talked about in forums.

under the current rule set.

They can then invade a few other out of the way spots in France ect ect there is zero cost.

[Peltonx]

Invasion system needs a nerf bat and VP system needs to be tweaked to help allies.

both will make game more historical.

[Smirfy]

The Allies need to be able to invade less but with more chance of success. Right now there is little chance of success so the only viable mechanic is to invade more. As the Axis have fantasy logistics the vicous circle will go round

[carlkay58]

I know that both the terrain in Holland and the VP system is being watched and thought about by the designers.

I am not so sure about the invasion system but I am sure they will take it into consideration.

[NotOneStepBack]

Regardless out the outcome, this game is hilarious. It's like intentionally trying to show how crazy it can get.

It does seem the community has fallen off a cliff with activity.

[Q-Ball]

I can see the terrain in Holland being an issue, but otherwise I don't see the problem.

Denmark is beyond effective aircover, I would think the LW, even in a reduced state, could make it pretty hot there. His invasions are really piecemeal and poorly designed, IMO.

He would be much better off just coming ashore in force under heavy aircover, and pounding the Wehrmacht into dust. But he probably doesn't know how to do that.

[Helpless]

I can see the terrain in Holland being an issue, but otherwise I don't see the problem.

It is considered to convert it to swamp (polders).

This is the map posted by Joel some days ago. New art for the tiles is still missing.



Tile map provides some extra flexibility.

[loki100]

I really don't want to see the game tweaked just because someone has outcheesed Pelton. His whole approach is based on rule exploitation and then complain voluminously when someone turns the tables on him.

I'm not sure the proposed Netherlands map is right. Half my family are Dutch, I visit a lot. Typical Dutch countryside in the Polder districts is very open terrain (with high LoS potential), and lots of small drainage ditches ... combined with areas of open field and good transport links.

So for tank movements there are some problems but its not classic swamp/marsh nor is it the restricted countryside of Normandy. Setting up ambushes would be hard, but control of key transport intersections vital and it would be hard to evade regular urban conflict due to the challenge of outflanking.

To be closer to what it would be like, you don't want the high defensive benefits of marsh with the knock on impact on armoured efficiency, you might want some sort of movement penalty to reflect the substantial risk of localised traffic jams

[Helpless]

I really don't want to see the game tweaked just because someone has outcheesed Pelton.

It is in discussion right now on the dev forum, which is started long time ago. I decided to post it here to attract more opinions. Most votes are that swamp would be closer to the real terrain than current clear.

Personally I've been in Netherlands many times, but I suppose it is not what it was back then in 1943-45.

[marion61]

I know at one time allied shipping was taking huge hits, but from what I've seen since .21, troop transports rarely get hit, even in heavily contested areas. The reason is that if you move 4 hexes at a time, you drop the odds of being attacked to such a low number it's almost impossible to get hit. Allies aren't taking nearly enough shipping losses moving thru high interdiction. Take away the move 4 hexes at a time, which I'm not sure how you could do that, and the allies would lose a lot more ships. I believe that the allies got it too easy when naval interdiction was changed, but there's a happy medium somewhere.

Once the allies start losing more troop ships, they will have to stop all that invading. I'm not sure how he's keeping them supplied, and ferrying troops across should be hard. With all the invasions he's done, his troop ships should be shot out imo.

Another suggestion is that once you pull a TF from a successful invasion, it can't be used to prep again for so many turns. 8 Turns, which is two months to refit the fleets to prep for a new invasion?

[LiquidSky]

Losing troop ships was the exception from mid 1943 until the end of the war...INCLUDING the Pacific. In fact you can easily find the list on line. Its pretty short.

What they should of had was amphib points as well (separate from) troop ships. These suffer horrible attrition with every invasion and the allies frantically tried building them...and was limited by what they could do by the number they had or where saving for future invasions.

Since adding amphib points is probably work...it may be easier to just turn troop ships into amphib points. Lessen the amount. And allow unlimited moveing by sea of troops. The allies will be restricted by port capacity anyways

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: LiquidSky



Losing troop ships was the exception from mid 1943 until the end of the war...INCLUDING the Pacific. In fact you can easily find the list on line. Its pretty short.

What they should of had was amphib points as well (separate from) troop ships. These suffer horrible attrition with every invasion and the allies frantically tried building them...and was limited by what they could do by the number they had or where saving for future invasions.

Since adding amphib points is probably work...it may be easier to just turn troop ships into amphib points. Lessen the amount. And allow unlimited moveing by sea of troops. The allies will be restricted by port capacity anyways

I think that's on the right track. Overall, I don't mind losing shipping to the Luftwaffe; the RL Allies didn't invade without fighter cover, and neither should you. What aggrivates everyone, I think, is losing shipping to subs or weather or whatever causes all those sinkings with nary a plane in sight.....

[Fallschirmjager]

I am confused? Is Pelton upset at just the notion of an invasion? He cannot be upset at the result, these invasions are not going to accomplish anything.

I think some players in their rush to complain about exploits are missing the overall picture of winning the war.

[Smirfy]

ORIGINAL: meklore61

I know at one time allied shipping was taking huge hits, but from what I've seen since .21, troop transports rarely get hit, even in heavily contested areas. The reason is that if you move 4 hexes at a time, you drop the odds of being attacked to such a low number it's almost impossible to get hit. Allies aren't taking nearly enough shipping losses moving thru high interdiction. Take away the move 4 hexes at a time, which I'm not sure how you could do that, and the allies would lose a lot more ships. I believe that the allies got it too easy when naval interdiction was changed, but there's a happy medium somewhere.

Once the allies start losing more troop ships, they will have to stop all that invading. I'm not sure how he's keeping them supplied, and ferrying troops across should be hard. With all the invasions he's done, his troop ships should be shot out imo.

Another suggestion is that once you pull a TF from a successful invasion, it can't be used to prep again for so many turns. 8 Turns, which is two months to refit the fleets to prep for a new invasion?

The problem was not Allied Troopships getting hit it was the German response once landed. Naval interdiction is a bad mechanic to influence invaisions. The Allies never any problem landing. The problem boils down to *the* landing. For my mechainic I would be looking at a high German response in 43 depedendant on location declining as time moves on, So in 43 a wrath of god hits you in Northwest europe but a a lesser response hits you in Southern. As time moves on reponse gets less,

[Peltonx]

Invasion areas 4-5