Pelton(Axis) vs S2_Tanker Axis Victory Resigned

[Ostwindflak]

I am thrown off by what he hopes to achieve with all these small landings. It defies all logic and seems rather absurd.

[marion61]

If I had to venture a guess, he's trying to spread out the axis forces to the point where they are ineffective, but this won't work. If you have less than 3 temp. ports in an invasion, and are only using regiments, you will never achieve a break out. Axis forces, one to one, are superior and require massed attacks and reserves to get thru. Plus trying to cover the air for 8 different invasion sites would be impossible. I does make Pelton's position weaker by spreading him out, but it also takes away the allied numerical superiority it takes to get to Berlin.

The best thing he could do is to invade near one of his other invasions to support it, and expand it from there.

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: meklore61

If I had to venture a guess, he's trying to spread out the axis forces to the point where they are ineffective, but this won't work. If you have less than 3 temp. ports in an invasion, and are only using regiments, you will never achieve a break out. Axis forces, one to one, are superior and require massed attacks and reserves to get thru. Plus trying to cover the air for 8 different invasion sites would be impossible. I does make Pelton's position weaker by spreading him out, but it also takes away the allied numerical superiority it takes to get to Berlin.

The best thing he could do is to invade near one of his other invasions to support it, and expand it from there.

Denmark is a great spot as it requires 12 divisions to hold the line.

The key is I am getting thinned out as in my panzers my infantry suck unless they are in FZs.

It will only take one landing I can't get to and I am scrwed, but so far I have the ports garrisoned and atleast 3 panzers close enough to hit his weak invasions.
The last 3 small ones I have been able to push back the same turn as invasion or lock it in so hes forced to withdraw before his supplies run out.

Italy's 2 beacheads, Brittanys, Holland and Denmark I can't push back and so at some point if he keeps attacking one will break, but I think the VP's are really stacked high at this point.

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: Seminole

No screen of the invasion combat?
I was curious how a regiment would fare invading contested. Do I see that he bounced your regiment out of a port with his landing?

No ports never drop, I was able to retake all 3 beach hexes and surround several divisions.

[Seminole]

No ports never drop, I was able to retake all 3 beach hexes and surround several divisions.

I misread the map, thought his temp port was a real port, but there isn't a real port at the mouth of the Somme.

I understand why you've elected to setup your defenses 10 miles from the beach, but I do wonder how these regimental attacks would go against simply an FZ with fort lvl 3.
Might have to click through some turns and 'sim' one just to see...

[Wuffer]

ORIGINAL: Seminole

I understand why you've elected to setup your defenses 10 miles from the beach, but I do wonder how these regimental attacks would go against simply an FZ with fort lvl 3.

Maybe it's part of Pelton's Art of war?
We know, the more he is lamenting, the better it is for him; I think a lot of the posts are a concept of total war - encouraging his oppenent to continue landing paras directly in front of the mighty Lehr Panzer-Div for example.[8D]

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: Wuffer

ORIGINAL: Seminole

I understand why you've elected to setup your defenses 10 miles from the beach, but I do wonder how these regimental attacks would go against simply an FZ with fort lvl 3.

Maybe it's part of Pelton's Art of war?
We know, the more he is lamenting, the better it is for him; I think a lot of the posts are a concept of total war - encouraging his oppenent to continue landing paras directly in front of the mighty Lehr Panzer-Div for example.[8D]

The FZ's hold if they are full and have another unit attached.

I have panzer divisions all along the coast + my 6 PD/GD reserves. So no matter where he lands I have a local response + a large response the following turn.

If its a small landing the local panzers and Infantry can handle it.
Holland and Denmark are easy targets that tie down allot of German divisions.

Just land there in 43 or early 44 then drop the big invasion and there is no way GHC can hold it back. Plus all the airbases close to Germany there is zero LW by Jan 44.

I cant wait for this engine on the eastern front

[marion61]

I concur. WitE 2.0 will be a very different game with the changes to air power.

[carlkay58]

WitE 2.0 is going to be DRASTICALLY different. The new map will change a lot but the new supply and air rules will definitely change things. The combat delay rule will also make things more difficult for the Axis in 41.

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: carlkay58

WitE 2.0 is going to be DRASTICALLY different. The new map will change a lot but the new supply and air rules will definitely change things. The combat delay rule will also make things more difficult for the Axis in 41.

When the LW locks down and area basicly an Army or larger, its done smoked + bomb the rail net and have fun moving troops or industry.

Flip the coin carl.

Sure it be a little slow going at first but making pockets is going to be amazing easy, done some testing as WA and I am really surpised its not over way sooner as far as WitW goes.

I have had allot of exp playing vs WA's air power and once an area of the front is locked down its over, its hard to see on this little map.

Areas of the Russian front will simply disappear there is no running as with the current rule set of wite 1.0

Units under WitW can move very fast vs zero resistance large pockets can be easly formed
and its not to hard to tweak the depot system as I have found out to make sure one area is getting most of the supplies and replasements.

The game will be different, but very much the same as it is.

Just different shinny tools to play with is all.

[marion61]

The axis with all their high experienced units will cut a trail thru the soviets, even with the combat delay's.

The only reason it isn't over so fast is the human element. A good axis player can tie you up quite awhile, but you just keep pounding the axis till you can achieve some good odds. It takes time to lay the ground work for air power, and the weather slows you down a lot too. I'll be curious to see how much impact combat delay has in wite 2.0.

[NotOneStepBack]

I hope they get it somewhat close to right for WITE 2. I can't imagine restarting a '41-'45 campaign over and over and reorganizing either side.

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: meklore61

The axis with all their high experienced units will cut a trail thru the soviets, even with the combat delay's.

The only reason it isn't over so fast is the human element.
A good axis player can tie you up quite awhile, but you just keep pounding the axis till you can achieve some good odds.
It takes time to lay the ground work for air power, and the weather slows you down a lot too.
I'll be curious to see how much impact combat delay has in wite 2.0.

The real impact will be TAC air power, when Germany can interdict a 100 mile wide area,
I move units in or out of that area and the CV drops from 10 to 1. The units are shells that route vs a hasty attack.


Terrain and weather will not have much impact south of the marsh.

The combat delay will help a little, but once its clear terrain you can advance very qickly - once the snowball gets rolling look out.

You can mess with WitW and test this out for yourselfs and am seeing allot of possiblitys for WitE 2.0

[LiquidSky]

The russians will also drop down interdiction... especially behind their own lines outside ftr range to punish breakthroughs

[carlkay58]

I don't think either side will be able to put up the interdiction values that the Western Allies can in the ETO in 44 and later. I think both sides will be able to claim a portion of the front and seal it off during the majority of the war and that will be a BIG factor in determining break outs and pockets. The way WitW works makes creating pockets harder and the pocketed units have better supply now too. On the other hand, this will enable the Soviets to stand up against the Axis in 41 - especially to buy time for the industry to ship out because the new rail capacity rules are really going to put a crimp in that for the Soviets.

The new rail capacity tracking is going to limit the amount of rail capacity in an area of the map - so the southern rail net is going to be maxed out moving just a few ARM factories (if they keep the cost at 6000 tons each). The max tonnage through a rail hex is 30,000 tons per turn. So a maximum of five ARM factories can be moved in one turn from any point and all along the rail path to its destination. That also means that not many units/supplies/replacements/etc. will be available in the south while all of the railing out occurs.

The Soviets are going to have to buy time to allow those factories to be moved. The new rules will give them better abilities to do so, but the Axis is going to be able to bomb the rail net for better effect to slow down or even stop the evacuations.

WitE 2 is going to be a very different game in many areas.

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: carlkay58

I don't think either side will be able to put up the interdiction values that the Western Allies can in the ETO in 44 and later.
I think both sides will be able to claim a portion of the front and seal it off during the majority of the war
and that will be a BIG factor in determining break outs and pockets.
The way WitW works makes creating pockets harder and the pocketed units have better supply now too.

Your contradicting yourself as more then one dev and a programmer keep doing.

All you guys say no one can do what WA do, BUT they will be able to in one area. Which is what WA do.

Your first statement is a copy of what 4 other have told me then you go on and say the opposite, getting kinda funny really-you guys trading bad notes?

Germany will unless 2by3 plans on making the game unhistorical destroy 3500 his plans near the front and LW will lock down Lvov area and at least one other the very same way WA's do-you have the same number of aircraft.

For the first three days, the Germans reported to have destroyed over 3,100 Soviet aircraft. In reality, Soviet losses were likely higher, as according to Russian historian Viktor Kulikov some 3,922 Soviet aircraft were lost in that time period.[100] According to archival reports in the war diaries of the German High Command, by 5 July the Luftwaffe had lost 491 aircraft with 316 more damaged, leaving it with only about 70 percent of the strength it had at the start of the invasion.[101] The Luftwaffe achieved air superiority in all sectors facing their army groups, and they would maintain it throughout the course of Barbarossa.[102]

Also historically speaking ( but we can ignore historical facts ) the LW was made for tactical warfare WA for strategic and Russain air forse for getting shot down until early 43.

The #1 reason why Germany rolled over Russia 41-42 and France 40 was because of combined warfare.

The LW was designed to support the ground units and many ground units had LW personal embedded in there command units unlike all other armys of the time.

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: LiquidSky

The russians will also drop down interdiction... especially behind their own lines outside ftr range to punish breakthroughs

Last time I checked you can only interdict enemy hexes or is this something new son?

[LiquidSky]

Nope..you can always interdict your own hexes. But you have to set it in the AD screen at the bottom..it is cryptically called umm FInt or something weird like that...just set it to yes and you interdict friendly hexes.

But it does make you think...all those Russian bombers hitting areas way behind the front lines away from short ranged German fighters for the German armoured thrusts to hit and get hurt by.

[carlkay58]

Pelton, I stand corrected you are right. I just think that the Axis and Soviets will have harder times putting up high interdiction values (over 5) in any area. The Western Allies can do two decent interdiction zones of area 4 or 5 in 44 and larger areas in 45 with values of over 5. I will stand with my assertion that these zones will be the key to causing breakthroughs and creating pockets though.

[sven6345789]

to many landings.
In Northern France there are two areas where landings are possible with a chance of success. Picardy (are between Le Havre and Dieppe, possible in the game, actually bad ground to land) or Normandy (historical landing site). Pas de Calais-> to many ports in between, hard to form a continuous frontline. Brittany-> bad aircover, to easy to block. Holland-> polders bad aircover, close vicinity to Germany, difficult to isolate (rail network); all other areas are to far from England to be taken into consideration.

Southern France: if you have troops left in Italy you don't need a follow-up landing can be considered after Northern France is invaded.

Italy: I guess Seminole found the best spot at the heel of the boot (Tarent, Brindisi); nice open terrain, many airfields (Foggia) close by, and aircover is acceptable for med standards.