HJ (SHC) vs Pelton T1-T4 Soviet pics

[Huw Jones]

ORIGINAL: Pelton

Checker boards can be a pain in the ass if you don't know how to deal with them.

Good game so far.

Others have more difficulty than you had dealing with it, I would use it again, but I think from T3 a slightly bigger gap between the German spearheads and the front line.

[Huw Jones]

T4 North

[Huw Jones]

The Panzers managed to push through the Pskov line, after a number of hasty attacks, but with heavy losses:

4521, 56, 170

The Northern front did one counter attack, adding to the Panzer losses.

Several units are now nearly eligible for Guards Status.

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: Huw Jones

ORIGINAL: Pelton

Checker boards can be a pain in the ass if you don't know how to deal with them.

Good game so far.

Others have more difficulty than you had dealing with it, I would use it again, but I think from T3 a slightly bigger gap between the German spearheads and the front line.

I recon pick units I want to pocket, then use 1 or 2 panzer divisions to circle the units. Then 4-6 other heard them into a nice tight pocket which leaves 4-6 other panzers to flip hexes.

Do the same thing for 3-4 turns and the checker board is not a checker board any more.

[Huw Jones]

T4 Center

[Huw Jones]

T4 South

[Huw Jones]

T4 Kiev

The Panzer thrust did no go in the direction I was expecting, towards D-Town, but towards Kiev.

So I railed some of my best Arm that were resting around D-Town and building fortifications there, to the Denep South of Kiev.

Kiev has limited fortifications, possibly why pelton went in that direction.

OR

For the units that were left to far forward after the failed Counter attack on T3, leaving more units to be pocked, Pelton first largish pocket with about 100,000 men in it, I doubt it will be the last.

[M60A3TTS]

Kiev should be no big deal. His normal play is cross the Dnepr at Cherkassy and head for Poltava to lock the arms there. But he will also go D-Z if defenses there are weak.

[HITMAN202]

M60A, do you think the Soviets in AGC have set up D-line too far west of Smolensk ??? The clear terrain to it's east makes it very vulnerable to encirclement.

Also in AGS Pelton has roughly 11-12 divs of both infantry and armor/mech units abutting the Kiev/Dnper line. It looks like Huw Jones efforts in building a visually impressive checkerboard setup has led him to neglect any Dnper D-line. I see no real fort line or units with MP's to provide reserve activation. Would you be very nervous if you were Stalin and he your Zhukov ??? I bet you would place his family in "political" custody. Watch Pelton crash thru. He also has another 3 Pz units 6-8 hexes away.

[M60A3TTS]

@ Hitman: Huw looks pretty good. Pelton cut Das Reich lose from Guderian's 46th Pz Kps and sent it south. But I'd qualify that by saying we can't see from the screenies what the Dnepr bend defense looks like.

Not sure what to make of using all these military districts as pseudo fronts but it is an interesting approach. It does seem there are too many airbases south. The VVS can get some real experience flying in the Leningrad area and aren't subject to moving as much as their counterparts in the south where moving east with regularity can be problematic.

[Huw Jones]

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

Kiev should be no big deal. His normal play is cross the Dnepr at Cherkassy and head for Poltava to lock the arms there. But he will also go D-Z if defenses there are weak.

I agree, but I am sure Pelton would have sent some units across if I didn't protect it adequately.

[Huw Jones]

ORIGINAL: HITMAN202

M60A, do you think the Soviets in AGC have set up D-line too far west of Smolensk ??? The clear terrain to it's east makes it very vulnerable to encirclement.

There isn’t much Arm in the vicinity, I count 3, there was 4, but I can't see the fourth.

I plan on building another line by Smolensk and then the river, as the reinforcements come on, hopefully.

ORIGINAL: HITMAN202
Also in AGS Pelton has roughly 11-12 divs of both infantry and armor/mech units abutting the Kiev/Dnper line. It looks like Huw Jones efforts in building a visually impressive checkerboard setup has led him to neglect any Dnper D-line. I see no real fort line or units with MP's to provide reserve activation. Would you be very nervous if you were Stalin and he your Zhukov ??? I bet you would place his family in "political" custody. Watch Pelton crash thru. He also has another 3 Pz units 6-8 hexes away.

I didn't think Pelton would head for Kiev, so the fort line starts at the Volga MD, I pulled out a few units on T1 with good construction values, then more T2, etc. Each unit is allocated to a HQ without other units, the HQs have a corresponding number of Sapper Regiments.

I agree with the lack of units and Res activation.

I expect him to crash through, but hopefully not yet.

Checkerboard setup, works well, but against a Pelton type player I would use it again, but further back, freeing up a few more units for fort building and getting less pocketed. I would also think twice about counter attacks West of the river in case I lose and can’t withdraw to the planned positions, because of ZOC.

[Huw Jones]

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

@ Hitman: Huw looks pretty good. Pelton cut Das Reich lose from Guderian's 46th Pz Kps and sent it south. But I'd qualify that by saying we can't see from the screenies what the Dnepr bend defense looks like.

Not sure what to make of using all these military districts as pseudo fronts but it is an interesting approach. It does seem there are too many airbases south. The VVS can get some real experience flying in the Leningrad area and aren't subject to moving as much as their counterparts in the south where moving east with regularity can be problematic.

Thanks BUT only a reasonably good intermediate, not very good compared with Sapper or Pelton, need more practice, every game helps, especially against the very good players as you learn quicker, learnt a lot from the short sapper game.

I do it for a few reasons:

As the Army HQs don't get overloaded while not using others and leaving them in STAVKA, while you wait for fronts to come on.

The Volga air command has a good commander, the southern Front has two air commands. I can disband one of them freeing up manpower, then switch the units to the Volga air command.

They can do bombing runs, but nothing else, but if I have some units they can support them.

I like to put the Kharkov MD and Volga MD side by side, where I expect Pelton to cross the river. They will most likely get split then can switch HQs between them, just reallocated a few units saving admin points.

As the fronts come on I can switch the MD Army at no cost to whatever front, but you can't do it the other way around, without a heavy admin penalty.

Not sure why the MD Armies cost nothing, but I though maybe the people who set up the game know the Russian army is always getting disorganized in the German attacks and gave them that as an option to help them, or possibly just an oversight.

I put the airbases forward so that they were closer for support, PLUS more importantly I expect Pelton to do air supply, hopefully they can knock off a few transports.

[M60A3TTS]

ORIGINAL: Huw Jones

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

Kiev should be no big deal. His normal play is cross the Dnepr at Cherkassy and head for Poltava to lock the arms there. But he will also go D-Z if defenses there are weak.

I agree, but I am sure Pelton would have sent some units across if I didn't protect it adequately.

He's going to get across somewhere. Kiev isn't a bad spot for Soviets because as the bird flies it's much farther to Stalino from there which has significant industry than Cherkassy.

[M60A3TTS]

ORIGINAL: Huw Jones

ORIGINAL: HITMAN202

M60A, do you think the Soviets in AGC have set up D-line too far west of Smolensk ??? The clear terrain to it's east makes it very vulnerable to encirclement.

There isn’t much Arm in the vicinity, I count 3, there was 4, but I can't see the fourth.

I plan on building another line by Smolensk and the river, as the reinforcements come on, hopefully.

You're not defending industry there. You're defending the direct path to Moscow.

[Huw Jones]

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

ORIGINAL: Huw Jones

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

Kiev should be no big deal. His normal play is cross the Dnepr at Cherkassy and head for Poltava to lock the arms there. But he will also go D-Z if defenses there are weak.

I agree, but I am sure Pelton would have sent some units across if I didn't protect it adequately.

He's going to get across somewhere. Kiev isn't a bad spot for Soviets because as the bird flies it's much farther to Stalino from there which has significant industry than Cherkassy.

Yes I think from the Soviets prospective its the best place for the Germans to cross as well, its a long way from anything, plus further from his supply sources, but no pointing letting him cross without a fight.

[Huw Jones]

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

ORIGINAL: Huw Jones

ORIGINAL: HITMAN202

M60A, do you think the Soviets in AGC have set up D-line too far west of Smolensk ??? The clear terrain to it's east makes it very vulnerable to encirclement.

There isn’t much Arm in the vicinity, I count 3, there was 4, but I can't see the fourth.

I plan on building another line by Smolensk and the river, as the reinforcements come on, hopefully.

You're not defending industry there. You're defending the direct path to Moscow.

True, but comments were regarding the line being to far forward?

[M60A3TTS]

Yes, and from what I saw on the T4 pics the north and center looked ok but I couldn't see the Dnepr defense near Mogilev. Now if it hadn't changed from the T3 pics, then not so good. You need a secondary line behind the Pronya at least or you are vulnerable to a breakthrough there.

[MattFL]

A second line behind the Pronya on T4 with the panzer ball around Pskov and AGC panzers NW of Vitebsk? Total waste of units/strength IMHO. Just enough CV on the Dnepr to make it too painful for the Germans to cross, anything extra needs to be north.

I think the pocket GHC has formed sw of Kiev isn't a bad thing. In the grand scheme of things the GHC are going to get their pockets and in this case this particular pocket has taken the GHC further away from where it needs to go (under normal circumstances) towards D-Town. The lack of fortified hexes on east side of Dnepr between Kiev and Cherkassy is a concern, but assuming SHC has enough strength there to deter GHC from trying to cross there T5, the pocket gives him more time to prep defenses along the Dnepr and get more industry out before the GHC swing to the SE. Will be interested to see T-5 German moves.

I think SHC is giving up too much ground too easily by Pskov/Lenningrad and personally I wouldn't have the setup SHC has there. Delaying setups in the south are good/necessary, but in the north you only have so many hexes before you run out of space. So for me, this is fighting terrain, not delaying terrain. Very interested to see what GHC does next turn, make a deep penetration northwards or go for the easy encirclement. You certainly are putting him in the position to make difficult decisions which is good as the more decisions he has to make the more likely he'll eventually make a wrong decision.

This is a really interesting game and I'm looking forward to continued reports. Would be good if Pelton started his own thread from the German side.

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: mattp

A second line behind the Pronya on T4 with the panzer ball around Pskov and AGC panzers NW of Vitebsk? Total waste of units/strength IMHO. Just enough CV on the Dnepr to make it too painful for the Germans to cross, anything extra needs to be north.

I think the pocket GHC has formed sw of Kiev isn't a bad thing. In the grand scheme of things the GHC are going to get their pockets and in this case this particular pocket has taken the GHC further away from where it needs to go (under normal circumstances) towards D-Town. The lack of fortified hexes on east side of Dnepr between Kiev and Cherkassy is a concern, but assuming SHC has enough strength there to deter GHC from trying to cross there T5, the pocket gives him more time to prep defenses along the Dnepr and get more industry out before the GHC swing to the SE. Will be interested to see T-5 German moves.

I think SHC is giving up too much ground too easily by Pskov/Lenningrad and personally I wouldn't have the setup SHC has there. Delaying setups in the south are good/necessary, but in the north you only have so many hexes before you run out of space. So for me, this is fighting terrain, not delaying terrain. Very interested to see what GHC does next turn, make a deep penetration northwards or go for the easy encirclement. You certainly are putting him in the position to make difficult decisions which is good as the more decisions he has to make the more likely he'll eventually make a wrong decision.

This is a really interesting game and I'm looking forward to continued reports. Would be good if Pelton started his own thread from the German side.

I can comment here as We are far ahead of the current posts/ turn.

Based on my past experience its more important as GHC to pocket units then to destroy industry. Yes sure if I can sweep south and bag D-Town turn 4 I will, but based on most of my AAR's players are simply blocking my southern rush.
Which will be nerfed more in up coming patch.

The German player can only take what we are given. Russian can easy defend any 1 of the 3 fronts. If the Russia is all in in the north I will simply release all but 3 of my panzer units from AGN and 16th Army and head for Moscow.
If the Russian player is going to stop me from taking industry in the south I will pocket units, because that is the option that's the easiest on my forses.
I take the path of least resistance, but will change my tactics each turn or the path of least resistance.

If I can weaken Russia early by pocketing units it will open up industry to being pocketed later in the summer.

vs Brian I have taken zip for industy because he hit the lottery and got 3 mud ( 2 stopping all my panzers)
turns early, but I been able to pocket a good number of troops.

The most important thing for Germany is weakening the Red Army and gaining as much space a possible Oka south during 42 so you can at least get a draw. Manpower centers can not be railed out do damaging as many as possible and pocketing 100+ divisions is huge.

1941 pocket units first and take industry second. vs the better players your simply not going to get to enough industry to make a difference in the long run.