Empire strikes back- NJP vs Wargmr Game over :-)

[njp72]

Lol, thanks Joc, I may have doomed it with my short expose on it.

Now who is going to write all those letters for my digital sailors next of kin?

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Sorry about Kuma! [:(]

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: njp72

Lol, thanks Joc, I may have doomed it with my short expose on it.

Now who is going to write all those letters for my digital sailors next of kin?

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Sorry about Kuma! [:(]

[:D]

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: njp72

Unfortunately (I am saying that word quite a bit now) some allied units have now cut off the rail link from Saigon which has stranded some important support units.

Always the most difficult part of playing IJ is the withdrawal, and most of us wait until too late ... we hate giving up in 44 what we fought for so successfully in 42.

[njp72]

Thanks Pax, yes it is though most of the lads escaped.

The war has turned critical in a few other places though.

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: njp72

Unfortunately (I am saying that word quite a bit now) some allied units have now cut off the rail link from Saigon which has stranded some important support units.

Always the most difficult part of playing IJ is the withdrawal, and most of us wait until too late ... we hate giving up in 44 what we fought for so successfully in 42.

[njp72]

Massive battle around Shanghai as I attempted to intercept the massive Allied armada.

I decided to absorb the full allied first strike with KB on full CAP without setting up a counter strike. A mistake probably, but I know the quality of my carrier groups and I couldn't get land based air from China to support due to damaged air strips and low supply. Quite simply I would have lost another 3oo aircraft for no gain and weakened my CAP.

Massive carnage then ensued with the following losses:

Allied- Naval aircraft 380

Japan- 2 CVs sunk, 1 crippled, 3 damaged
1 CVL sunk, 1 x CVE sunk
120 a/c- most destroyed on the carriers[:(]

Most of the damage was inflicted on the first strike. The second strike due to losses was not nearly as powerful or as coordinated.

The next turn may result in another CV going down depending if he lashes out. I have sent 30 DDs, 2 BBs and 2 CA/CLs directly at his CV taskforces to give him something to think about.

Whilst I can't sustain losing 3 CVs a day, I doubt the Allies can lose 350 navy aircraft per turn either. Always sad to lose CVs but as long as they are destroying allied a/c I don't care. Besides it is late 44 so time is rapidly running out.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: njp72

I couldn't get land based air from China to support due to damaged air strips and low supply.

Is that Russia again?

[Lowpe]

Facing the Deathstar: a topic we don't discuss as much as we should.

It is a little late, but:

You might try heavily Frank escorted kamikazes/torpedoe at 30K. Or George. Might knock down some CAP and it has to be better than A6M5 or M8s.

MTBs?

Wargamer just keeps coming doesn't he?

Do I have the history correct here: first you had a carrier clash south of China, then a big surface clash, and now this attack....and tomorrow another surface clash.

Oh, for Sam![;)]

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
Oh, for Sam![;)]

Yeah, it is a big investment and it takes to long to show up ... but getting Sam by Mar44 is a BIG deal IF you plan to have the KB around and use at that time.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
Oh, for Sam![;)]

Yeah, it is a big investment and it takes to long to show up ... but getting Sam by Mar44 is a BIG deal IF you plan to have the KB around and use at that time.

Pax, how many factories are you talking about here? 3/44 Seems super early?[&:]

[njp72]

I completely agree reference the death star.

I have come to the conclusion based on my own personal experience that by mid 44 trying to sink allied fleet CVs is a futile exercise. If you manage to survive the CAP, the AA rips you apart. Besides the Essex class are tough to kill and with so many in a hex, ultimately the air strikes fragment and maybe a couple take the odd bomb or torpedo hit. At what price are we willing to pay in aircraft to kill an Essex- 500, 1000, 1500....

Nope I have decided a different approach which is going after USN aircraft to nullify the CVs. CVEs are a completely different matter and are very vulnerable to all forms of air strikes.

I completely agree you need land based air to be involved to land any solid blow in 44 and 45.

Mike (Wargmr) always shrugs off tactical defeats and forever presses forward onto his objective. Very rarely if ever gets rattled and is remorseless in pursuing the offensive.

Three massive surface battles around Formosa, followed by an unstoppable carrier strike from the death Star, followed by another series of smaller surface clashes. In the last three days 500+ USN aircraft have been destroyed but they have inflicted significant damage on an already battered IJN.

Sam would have been useful but the A6M8 and A6M5c have performed very well. The issue is not the air frames or the quality of the pilots, it is the sheer massing of combat power by the USN which sweeps everything away.

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Facing the Deathstar: a topic we don't discuss as much as we should.

It is a little late, but:

You might try heavily Frank escorted kamikazes/torpedoe at 30K. Or George. Might knock down some CAP and it has to be better than A6M5 or M8s.

MTBs?

Wargamer just keeps coming doesn't he?

Do I have the history correct here: first you had a carrier clash south of China, then a big surface clash, and now this attack....and tomorrow another surface clash.

Oh, for Sam![;)]

[njp72]

Excellent question and I suspect the answer is yes and no.

No because there appears to be plenty of supply around in certain parts of both China and Russia. However I am having real issues in getting it to flow evenly across the map. The yes is where the supply wants to concentrate- around all of the hot spots where the fighting is quite fierce against the soviets.

There is a stack of supply on the HI (Tokyo has over a mil) but I am reluctant to part with too much of it. Sooner or later I think he has to come to the HI to win. There is no way Mike is going to sit back and strat bomb for 9 months [:D]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: njp72

I couldn't get land based air from China to support due to damaged air strips and low supply.

Is that Russia again?

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: njp72

Excellent question and I suspect the answer is yes and no.

No because there appears to be plenty of supply around in certain parts of both China and Russia. However I am having real issues in getting it to flow evenly across the map. The yes is where the supply wants to concentrate- around all of the hot spots where the fighting is quite fierce against the soviets.

This is an early indicator of lack of supply. Fighting, particularly large stacks with lots of ARTY can eat up +10,000 supply/turn.
You have supply going those unit engaged as the AI correctly feels that you want those units to remain in supply and not suffer low supply malus.

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: njp72

Excellent question and I suspect the answer is yes and no.

No because there appears to be plenty of supply around in certain parts of both China and Russia. However I am having real issues in getting it to flow evenly across the map. The yes is where the supply wants to concentrate- around all of the hot spots where the fighting is quite fierce against the soviets.

This is an early indicator of lack of supply. Fighting, particularly large stacks with lots of ARTY can eat up +10,000 supply/turn.
You have supply going those unit engaged as the AI correctly feels that you want those units to remain in supply and not suffer low supply malus.

One question I still have to frame is how the AI finds and distributes this supply. Is it a constant pull from
where supplies are to where they are not? Or only pull from a certain hex range from the demand, thus supplies are
accumulated in places where by default it cannot be used ..?

One thing I think it prudent and reinforced by this action . is manually moving supply from areas using stockpiling and demand way in advance.
In my limited experience letting the AI move supply in the moment rather than preplan a stockpile causes chaos in the end.
With the Allies creating action on different fronts I wonder if the AI will react?

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces
One thing I think it prudent and reinforced by this action . is manually moving supply from areas using stockpiling and demand way in advance.
In my limited experience letting the AI move supply in the moment rather than preplan a stockpile causes chaos in the end.
With the Allies creating action on different fronts I wonder if the AI will react?

+1,[&o]

You are so correct. Japan needs to preposition supply in certain hubs across China/Vietnam/Thailand/Burma. These central warehouses need to not let their supply simply bleed across map.

Where there is not a direct rail line,that supply needs to be shipped in and watched very carefully.

To a degree you need to do the same thing with fuel,alhtough there is no malus for wastage here but rather the occasional HI shutdown. Accomplished by changing home ports for ships.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces



One question I still have to frame is how the AI finds and distributes this supply. Is it a constant pull from
where supplies are to where they are not? Or only pull from a certain hex range from the demand, thus supplies are
accumulated in places where by default it cannot be used ..?

If you are referring to the continent, the answer is basically that it can see everywhere. Having said that though, doesn't mean its going to move.

Using India as an example, not much is going east, North is hard blocked and the west and south are seas ... so within this area, once you have enough supply it is going to move fairly readily to either where it is needed or its going to pool based upon other criteria (HQ's etc.). Where you drop it is one criteria, but not a big one though.

If you look at something like China, same concepts apply, but the distances do matter.

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: Crackaces



One question I still have to frame is how the AI finds and distributes this supply. Is it a constant pull from
where supplies are to where they are not? Or only pull from a certain hex range from the demand, thus supplies are
accumulated in places where by default it cannot be used ..?

If you are referring to the continent, the answer is basically that it can see everywhere. Having said that though, doesn't mean its going to move.

Using India as an example, not much is going east, North is hard blocked and the west and south are seas ... so within this area, once you have enough supply it is going to move fairly readily to either where it is needed or its going to pool based upon other criteria (HQ's etc.). Where you drop it is one criteria, but not a big one though.

If you look at something like China, same concepts apply, but the distances do matter.

Ok on India I build bases up in the East .. especially all the bases close to the Burma border .. then stockpile
set the supply requirement up and then then I see movement .. then into the Irrawaddy valley from there when I un-stockpile .

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: Crackaces



One question I still have to frame is how the AI finds and distributes this supply. Is it a constant pull from
where supplies are to where they are not? Or only pull from a certain hex range from the demand, thus supplies are
accumulated in places where by default it cannot be used ..?

If you are referring to the continent, the answer is basically that it can see everywhere. Having said that though, doesn't mean its going to move.

Using India as an example, not much is going east, North is hard blocked and the west and south are seas ... so within this area, once you have enough supply it is going to move fairly readily to either where it is needed or its going to pool based upon other criteria (HQ's etc.). Where you drop it is one criteria, but not a big one though.

If you look at something like China, same concepts apply, but the distances do matter.

Ok on India I build bases up in the East .. especially all the bases close to the Burma border .. then stockpile
set the supply requirement up and then then I see movement .. then into the Irrawaddy valley from there when I un-stockpile .

Yes, you can force it, and I'll bet you have FAR more than 200K total supply in India.

[njp72]

Great conversation gents and some solid learning points.

As suspected, I need to ship supply where I can to the critical spots rather than hope it will migrate from other localities. This is a little problematic at the moment given the entire USN is located just outside Shanghai!

The plan to slow him down:

1. Target his air- especially 4Es and USN aircraft.

2. Target BBs and CAs to further degrade his shore bombardment capability.

3. Continue to target/ apply pressure on Soviet troops (especially isolated pockets) to continue to accumulate points.

4. Target merchant shipping/ soft targets with air, MTBs, subs

5. Ignore his CVs!!!!


Let's see how this plays out- I am guessing poorly though he still needs 63K of points to win.

[njp72]

Oct 44- Another big series of navy battles outside Shanghai.

The running battles continued for a couple of days with my air helping to tip the balance. Mike kept his carriers safely tucked away after suffering heavy loses in the last month amongst his DBs and Avenger squadrons.

I think I got the better of it but not sure.

Casualties

IJN
DDs x 6 sunk (ouch)
BBs x 2 moderate damage

USN
1x Fast BB likely sunk
2x CAs likely sunk (kamikaze attack)
2 x CAs heavy damage
4 x DDs sunk

Still his convoys largely managed to get through around China. The air war is really starting to heat up as I am now committing my reserves to the fight. The time has finally come!

[njp72]

Aircraft pools- Oct 44

As always I made a number of mistakes and really should have produced the Sam. In saying that I have significant stockpile of excellent fighters especially the Frank R and the George 2.

Pilot quality amongst fighter pilots is also very good. I have lost 27K of aircraft but only 11K of pilots so plenty of veterans are still around and eager to even the score[:)]

I have pretty much used up all my stockpiles of engines.