Bozo's traveling Circus fuel HQ exploit

[Peltonx]

Bozo was nice enough 6 months ago to post the exploit morveal I though it was going to get
fixed but I guess it has not yet? I believe MT posted on it several yrs ago.

You can drop 1500 fuel to a HQ 1 hex from railhead then move it to front and it will have close to 1500.

Basicly you can rotate HQ's and never run out of fuel at the front if done right as Bozo proved in his game

tm.asp?m=4138172

Same can be done for Russia ect ect

When is this getting addressed?

Good job Bozo

[Tejszd]

Ouch

The amount of fuel/supplies needs to impact the movement cost. Add a simple penalty of +0, +1, +2 or +3 based on the amount of fuel and supplies a HQ is supposed to carry/move with them....

[morvael]

Could someone explain the trick with more detail?

Moving HQ with a lot of dumps uses more trucks, but I don't think trucks are an issue at this stage.

Any solutions other than increasing MP cost to move loaded HQ?

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: morvael

Could someone explain the trick with more detail?

Moving HQ with a lot of dumps uses more trucks, but I don't think trucks are an issue at this stage.

Any solutions other than increasing MP cost to move loaded HQ?

Never done it myself, but Bozo claims.

You have a HQ ( no units under it) withen a few hexes of a railhead and JU-52's are withen 1 hex of HQ.
Fill up HQ with 1000+ fuel, the next turn move to front lines attach divisions under it.
Then move other empty HQ back to rail heads fill it up and rotate every turn.

Can't you simply make a HQ with more then XXX fuel under it simply be removed during logistics phase?

The easy fix should be only 2 missions can be flown to any one hex including Fuel drops and recon. Not 10+ like Bozo is doing.

or

only 1 fuel drop per hex as units should be resetting to zero MP's once a drop is made.

Why is this currently not the case anyways?

[Denniss]

Do not permit deliveries if supply/fuel dumps are already in excess of 200. Maybe vary this limit by HQ type with 100 for Corps with increase of 50 per HQ level above it.
A similar limit should be added to logistics phase so excess dumps are slowly sent back to pool during phase 2.

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: Denniss

Do not permit deliveries if supply/fuel dumps are already in excess of 200. Maybe vary this limit by HQ type with 100 for Corps with increase of 50 per HQ level above it.
A similar limit should be added to logistics phase so excess dumps are slowly sent back to pool during phase 2.

People that are not exploiting get punished, if your dropping to your front line Corps HQ and after HQBU's Corps HQs
have far more then 200 fuel.

A simple fix is 1 or 2 fuel drops per hex your idea has ill effects on other areas of the game.

[morvael]

The problem with sending back is that it's still available to be taken later from the same city. Best would be to cap air drop deliveries to certain level, but this is unrealistic. What to do with the excess?

[Michael T]

Just put a hard cap on how much fuel a HQ can hold. 750?

[morvael]

What about blocking HQs from getting air drops? Are drops are about emergency resupply, not about stockpiling nice dumps.

[morvael]

Or just make local resupply of HQ and support units, without adding dumps.

[Bozo_the_Clown]

The easy fix should be only 2 missions can be flown to any one hex including Fuel drops and recon. Not 10+ like Bozo is doing.

In my game against Stef I usually made two drops. Only once I made three drops. The 1500 fuel HQ was only for test purposes.

The easiest fix would be to set a limit of 1 drop per unit after which the unit has 0 MP. A hard limit of 750 fuel is way too much. I never had more then 800 fuel in any HQ. Usually around 400/500.

This exploit is bad for 41 but it's downright crazy when you think how many Ju-52s the Germans get for their 42 offensive. Soviets can abuse this too but most games don't make it to 43/44 anyway.

I'm just the messenger so don't yell at me.

[morvael]

I think I'll make air drops resupply HQs like regular units, with attached support units, without adding any dumps. HQBU is for creating a stockpile of dumps. The rest will remain as is.

[morvael]

ORIGINAL: Bozo_the_Clown
how many Ju-52s the Germans get for their 42 offensive

By the end of the summer 42 my Ju-52s are in a sorry state, at most 7-10 active per group at start of turn... I demand impossible from them (using only unit resupply though, and that didn't look overpowered to me) [:)]

[Bozo_the_Clown]

I think I'll make air drops resupply HQs like regular units, with attached support units, without adding any dumps. HQBU is for creating a stockpile of dumps. The rest will remain as is.

Please explain to me what this means and how this is different from now. Does this mean that any fuel an HQ receives via air drop can only be used for that HQ and it's support units and none of it is funneled to the attached divisions the following turn? That would be an excellent fix! Fuel transport would then have to go directly to divisions.

[Denniss]

As I understand the comment all supply/fuel dropped on HQs is only delivered to the HQ's own stock and to assigned support units, it won't be used to create supply/fuel dumps anymore which may then be distributed to attached combat units.

[Aditia]

Agree a fix is needed. I also think careful thought needs to go into this one as it is an important mechanic that needs to not be broken by the fix.

[morvael]

Denniss is right in his interpretation. And I think that fix breaks nothing in the desired way of resupplying via air (directly to the unit(s) that you want resupplied, without intermediaries), while removing HQ shenanigans.

[Bozo_the_Clown]

Denniss is right in his interpretation. And I think that fix breaks nothing in the desired way of resupplying via air (directly to the unit(s) that you want resupplied, without intermediaries), while removing HQ shenanigans.

Greatly appreciated! [&o]

[Icier]

ORIGINAL: Denniss

As I understand the comment all supply/fuel dropped on HQs is only delivered to the HQ's own stock and to assigned support units, it won't be used to create supply/fuel dumps anymore which may then be distributed to attached combat units.

does seem logical

[Michael T]

Will the fix affect normal (non airlift) fuel accumulation that you see in HQ's? And the ability to move that supply forward? Eg the fuel the HQ's start with. I fear for breaking other indirectly related supply/fuel functions that are part of the normal supply process.