Berlin is watching with interest Herr Kokoda. Not a Nazi I see.
Scouts. Who needs them, bahh. They just get squashed by my tanks.
Klinkenhoffen (Germany) v's pbhawkin (Soviet Union) Aust PBEM game C
Moderator: MOD_SPWaW
The 'last' sniper
I see my last sniper has twice been 'destroyed'.
I wish I could resurrect my troops as often as the Russkies think I can.
It is with some pleasure that I see the Marschall has had to call reinforcements. I would have thought his reserves sufficient!
I wish I could resurrect my troops as often as the Russkies think I can.
It is with some pleasure that I see the Marschall has had to call reinforcements. I would have thought his reserves sufficient!
CHRIS
Turn 12 Ger
PaK 40 still holding his tanks away from home VH. One T34 destroyed and crew of KV1 abandoned the 'bus' as they approach the home VH under PaK 40 AT fire. IV g keeping the SO Eng at bay too. He has a small force still occupying my home VH. Plenty of time to recover these.
In the S VH we have more repositioning and running away happening. Many KV 1 with SO Eng approaching. Looks like Russian commander may be correct - my force will not last long here. SP mortar no longer immobilised, so is no longer a stationary mortar platform. This should help.
No sign of the scouting force chasing my HQ, as alleged.
Immortal sniper raised from the dead again.
In the S VH we have more repositioning and running away happening. Many KV 1 with SO Eng approaching. Looks like Russian commander may be correct - my force will not last long here. SP mortar no longer immobilised, so is no longer a stationary mortar platform. This should help.
No sign of the scouting force chasing my HQ, as alleged.
Immortal sniper raised from the dead again.
CHRIS
ussr turn 12
NEWS FLASH
Immortal German sniper (Heinz Thorvald) has finally been removed from the state of play by famous Soviet sniper (playing as SMG squad) Vasily Zaitsev!!
In the centre the enemy Paks are enjoying picking off our armour at range. In the meantime we still control all his VHs and our infantry are slowly closing in on his immobile Paks.
In the South we have eliminated 3 rifle squads (or elements of) as well as destroyed one of his Morter vehicles with the other spotted. We have also retaken 2 of the 4 Southern VHs and retreated a further rifle squad. The last of his armour in this area stands defiant adjacent to a VH, having survived an exchange with a KV-1. With our forces only 2-3 hexes away he must be a very cool commander (or just plain crazy!).
marshall
Pbhawkin
PS whats happening in the other games (game E and F)?
Immortal German sniper (Heinz Thorvald) has finally been removed from the state of play by famous Soviet sniper (playing as SMG squad) Vasily Zaitsev!!
In the centre the enemy Paks are enjoying picking off our armour at range. In the meantime we still control all his VHs and our infantry are slowly closing in on his immobile Paks.
In the South we have eliminated 3 rifle squads (or elements of) as well as destroyed one of his Morter vehicles with the other spotted. We have also retaken 2 of the 4 Southern VHs and retreated a further rifle squad. The last of his armour in this area stands defiant adjacent to a VH, having survived an exchange with a KV-1. With our forces only 2-3 hexes away he must be a very cool commander (or just plain crazy!).
marshall
Pbhawkin
PS whats happening in the other games (game E and F)?
Regards
Kool Kommander
"With our forces only 2-3 hexes away he must be a very cool commander (or just plain crazy!)."
...or maybe he is to frightened to expose his delicate parts to a rear shot...
...or maybe he is not getting any orders! These things happen.
...or maybe he is to frightened to expose his delicate parts to a rear shot...
...or maybe he is not getting any orders! These things happen.
CHRIS
Kool Kommander
"With our forces only 2-3 hexes away he must be a very cool commander (or just plain crazy!)."
...or maybe he is to frightened to expose his delicate parts to a rear shot...
...or maybe he is not getting any orders! These things happen.
...or maybe he is to frightened to expose his delicate parts to a rear shot...
...or maybe he is not getting any orders! These things happen.
CHRIS
Game C Ger T 13
German Reserves Arrive!
I've been waiting a while for these. A small force of Pioneers and Panthers arrive on the battlefield to begin the task of recovering the situation. Their task is great, but I've worked out how to call them in now. This game has been a useful learning experience for an inexperienced commander. More transport for my PaK 40s - the heroes of my defence - will also help re-establish my defensive lines.
The first task of the reinforcements, eliminating the breakthrough T34 force was immediately achieved. I don't think the Russians know what hit them. They do now, of course, as I advance to retake the home VH. Note: Must search around for the troops thought to have been riding the T34 force.
The home VH are now close to recovered. The battered Soviets will be quickly eliminated. Soviets appear to have little support for this overextended extended tissue of force, despite pbhawkinovski's claims to be advancing on my rear defences. Next stop, to support my weakened* N force to take the N VH, then on to his home VH.
The occupation of the S VH is more than shakey now, but it has taken the Russkies 6 KV-1s and associated Soviet joyriders to do it. Now I have tanks with Big Guns, life will become more stressful for the extended Soviet troops.
Kommandant Klinkenhoffen: Thank you for interceding with the Fuhrer to provide the additional forces. I hope to repay your confidence.
_________________________________________________
* Many would say decimated - but I know what decimated really means! It's much worse than that, as my opponent well knows.
I've been waiting a while for these. A small force of Pioneers and Panthers arrive on the battlefield to begin the task of recovering the situation. Their task is great, but I've worked out how to call them in now. This game has been a useful learning experience for an inexperienced commander. More transport for my PaK 40s - the heroes of my defence - will also help re-establish my defensive lines.
The first task of the reinforcements, eliminating the breakthrough T34 force was immediately achieved. I don't think the Russians know what hit them. They do now, of course, as I advance to retake the home VH. Note: Must search around for the troops thought to have been riding the T34 force.
The home VH are now close to recovered. The battered Soviets will be quickly eliminated. Soviets appear to have little support for this overextended extended tissue of force, despite pbhawkinovski's claims to be advancing on my rear defences. Next stop, to support my weakened* N force to take the N VH, then on to his home VH.
The occupation of the S VH is more than shakey now, but it has taken the Russkies 6 KV-1s and associated Soviet joyriders to do it. Now I have tanks with Big Guns, life will become more stressful for the extended Soviet troops.
Kommandant Klinkenhoffen: Thank you for interceding with the Fuhrer to provide the additional forces. I hope to repay your confidence.
_________________________________________________
* Many would say decimated - but I know what decimated really means! It's much worse than that, as my opponent well knows.
CHRIS
reinforcements used in a PBEM
CHRIS,
The reinforcements that I said were arriving to help my Southern flank were those forces I started the game with and that had comprised my Northern flank (remember you no longer have an effective force there). They were therefore transferring across the battlefield to other areas of need. They were NOT additional reinforcements that I called up by using the F4 key!
It is usually considered polite to let the other player know that you want to do this. I guess as you said that you are still learning.
I understand that calling reinforcements results in 25% of their value being awarded to the opponent's victory points (page 28 of rules manual).
I will continue on with my current force at this time.
peter
PS I believe that I have now eleiminated all your Southern VH force (1 Pz IV g, morter vehicle and rifle squad plus a crew)
peter
The reinforcements that I said were arriving to help my Southern flank were those forces I started the game with and that had comprised my Northern flank (remember you no longer have an effective force there). They were therefore transferring across the battlefield to other areas of need. They were NOT additional reinforcements that I called up by using the F4 key!
It is usually considered polite to let the other player know that you want to do this. I guess as you said that you are still learning.
I understand that calling reinforcements results in 25% of their value being awarded to the opponent's victory points (page 28 of rules manual).
I will continue on with my current force at this time.
peter
PS I believe that I have now eleiminated all your Southern VH force (1 Pz IV g, morter vehicle and rifle squad plus a crew)
peter
Regards
Reinforcements
Very, very sorry Peter.
Thanks you for your advice on etiquette
In my defence may I humbly offer...
1. I am new to PBEM
2. I have been trying to keep to the unwritten and inexplicit rules as I'd been able to discern them from the forum, but I've never seen this convention mentioned.
3. I wasn't sure what 'normal' conventions applied to the tournament. You may have seen that when we were setting up the game with Klinkenhoffen I asked about conventions such as Arty limits etc. Klinenhoffen replied that there were no limits in this case. IIRC he mentioned that we would not know whether our opponent had spent 5000 points on air strikes or infiltrators (I didn't, on either, by the way!).
4. You mentioned reinforcements earlier, to which I expressed surprise, since I thought you had plenty of force left without more. So I thought you had already called in reinforcements. Seemed fair, therefore...
5. You get 25% of the points of these new troops, AND you will get 100% of their points as well, as you destroy them!
6. I've never called reinforcements before, and thought I should give it a burl in a game I'd lost anyway, so I knew how it was done, and what you could order.
-
-
-
I suppose I should also tell you about the battallion of 150mm OB arty I ordered too?
In shame and distress for transgressing the boundaries of honourable warfare...
Thanks you for your advice on etiquette
In my defence may I humbly offer...
1. I am new to PBEM
2. I have been trying to keep to the unwritten and inexplicit rules as I'd been able to discern them from the forum, but I've never seen this convention mentioned.
3. I wasn't sure what 'normal' conventions applied to the tournament. You may have seen that when we were setting up the game with Klinkenhoffen I asked about conventions such as Arty limits etc. Klinenhoffen replied that there were no limits in this case. IIRC he mentioned that we would not know whether our opponent had spent 5000 points on air strikes or infiltrators (I didn't, on either, by the way!).
4. You mentioned reinforcements earlier, to which I expressed surprise, since I thought you had plenty of force left without more. So I thought you had already called in reinforcements. Seemed fair, therefore...
5. You get 25% of the points of these new troops, AND you will get 100% of their points as well, as you destroy them!
6. I've never called reinforcements before, and thought I should give it a burl in a game I'd lost anyway, so I knew how it was done, and what you could order.
-
-
-
I suppose I should also tell you about the battallion of 150mm OB arty I ordered too?
In shame and distress for transgressing the boundaries of honourable warfare...
CHRIS
German T14
Pioneers swept through the routed and retreating Sov engineers that were cringeing under an artillery barrage, to occupy my home VH. These are now firmly back in German control.
Gallant PaK 40s will now be repositioned to cover any counterattacks - it's too smokey for them to be effective where they are now. Northern forces moving to overlook the N VH and spot for prep artillery barrages and wait to support the assault on the thin Sov defence there.
In shame and distress, The Egregious Cheater,
Gallant PaK 40s will now be repositioned to cover any counterattacks - it's too smokey for them to be effective where they are now. Northern forces moving to overlook the N VH and spot for prep artillery barrages and wait to support the assault on the thin Sov defence there.
In shame and distress, The Egregious Cheater,
CHRIS
Game C German T15
At the risk of inflaming the M4 vs Kats debate...
Those pussy cats are quite good, aren't they? Panther A takes out a T34 at the NW of the town. This T34 had brought up a SO SMG squad, whch is now sneaking about in the smoke. There are several other Sov units in the area. Isolated crew that was acting as the Sov 'eyes' was cleaned up.
Note: I must remember to blunder into the smoke with my valuable remaining tanks and put them at risk. The town is full of russkies, so obviously I should charge in there too!
PaKs repositioned now to defend against other attacks on my home VH.
In the South, the VH are secured by the Russians, but I did disperse a squad of Sov engineers with my remaining MG. A final sacrificial gesture, I expect. Now where is that Sov HQ I wonder?
If there is a cleanup force looking for my limited forces in the North I can't see it...
Time will tell - and there's not much of it left.
Those pussy cats are quite good, aren't they? Panther A takes out a T34 at the NW of the town. This T34 had brought up a SO SMG squad, whch is now sneaking about in the smoke. There are several other Sov units in the area. Isolated crew that was acting as the Sov 'eyes' was cleaned up.
Note: I must remember to blunder into the smoke with my valuable remaining tanks and put them at risk. The town is full of russkies, so obviously I should charge in there too!
PaKs repositioned now to defend against other attacks on my home VH.
In the South, the VH are secured by the Russians, but I did disperse a squad of Sov engineers with my remaining MG. A final sacrificial gesture, I expect. Now where is that Sov HQ I wonder?
If there is a cleanup force looking for my limited forces in the North I can't see it...
Time will tell - and there's not much of it left.
CHRIS
USSR turn 15
Comrades, I have called you here to discuss the surprise and serious developments on the front.
The Germans have managed to scrap together their final reserves of vehicles and men who survived the battles at Kursk. They have launced a desperate counter offensive in order to take the VH prior to the rains ceasing all movement on turn 20.
We regret to inform you that the German home VH have been retaken by this force at the cost of 2 SMG squads 2-3 crew and a engineer unit as well as a T34.
Their force appears to consist of at least 2 Panther Vs and 4 Skdfz 252/1 with flamethrower engineers on board! Expect other units in the vicinity!
We are aware of at least 1 Panther and maybe another that was immobilised. We must strike quickly while they are still sorting out their mechanical problems!
Our units are currently deploying to better defensive positions and mopping up german stragglers (we eliminated a MMG and crew of morter vehicle).
Intel reports the enemy is unlikely to approach through the town and will probably try to avoid the forests as well.
Comrades, conduct your defence as appropriate!
Marshall
Pbhawkin
The Germans have managed to scrap together their final reserves of vehicles and men who survived the battles at Kursk. They have launced a desperate counter offensive in order to take the VH prior to the rains ceasing all movement on turn 20.
We regret to inform you that the German home VH have been retaken by this force at the cost of 2 SMG squads 2-3 crew and a engineer unit as well as a T34.
Their force appears to consist of at least 2 Panther Vs and 4 Skdfz 252/1 with flamethrower engineers on board! Expect other units in the vicinity!
We are aware of at least 1 Panther and maybe another that was immobilised. We must strike quickly while they are still sorting out their mechanical problems!
Our units are currently deploying to better defensive positions and mopping up german stragglers (we eliminated a MMG and crew of morter vehicle).
Intel reports the enemy is unlikely to approach through the town and will probably try to avoid the forests as well.
Comrades, conduct your defence as appropriate!
Marshall
Pbhawkin
Regards
Game C T 16
I don't see any of those KV-1 buses to transport the Sov Infantry from the town, so they can rest there unmolested for a while.
I still have the odd straggler in the S reporting the activites of the Soviets, when they dare peep out above the shell holes.
My spies overlooking the soviet home VH do not report any unusual activity there. I expect no reinforcements from the Soviets at this stage, although I could do with the bonus points, I'm sure.
Panther Vs still showing the mechanical trouble that plagued them at Kursk.
Come and get them Russki!
...and a gratuitous comment - That * willymeter is a bit gamey, isn't it? By using several units and their visible hexes, you can work out where the spotter is.
I can live (barely) with the idea that you could 'sense' when you're being watched, but I can't believe you could use it in the 2-5 minutes of battle time to triangulate the source of the psychic vibe!
I still have the odd straggler in the S reporting the activites of the Soviets, when they dare peep out above the shell holes.
My spies overlooking the soviet home VH do not report any unusual activity there. I expect no reinforcements from the Soviets at this stage, although I could do with the bonus points, I'm sure.
Panther Vs still showing the mechanical trouble that plagued them at Kursk.
Come and get them Russki!
...and a gratuitous comment - That * willymeter is a bit gamey, isn't it? By using several units and their visible hexes, you can work out where the spotter is.
I can live (barely) with the idea that you could 'sense' when you're being watched, but I can't believe you could use it in the 2-5 minutes of battle time to triangulate the source of the psychic vibe!
CHRIS
Game C German T 19
The last couple of turns have seen the Pioneers and the mobile Panther advance to take the Northern VH. Two 251s lost in the process. Russians have lost one KV1 destroyed and one immobilised, and two SMG squads.
The immobilised SP mortar called for aid, as a Sov Engineer squad approached it to finish it off. A 251 HT obliged, destroying the cheeky Russians.
The MG squad of the Pioneers has been beating off the approaches of SO SMG and Engineers atempting to destroy the immobile Panther east of the home VH.
In the south a T34 has been abandoned by its crew. Not many points there. A couple of T34s sit in overwatch positions, making it difficult for me to do my own mopping up here.
The terrain is full of damaged and burning vehicles and the mangled bodies of many men.
The immobilised SP mortar called for aid, as a Sov Engineer squad approached it to finish it off. A 251 HT obliged, destroying the cheeky Russians.
The MG squad of the Pioneers has been beating off the approaches of SO SMG and Engineers atempting to destroy the immobile Panther east of the home VH.
In the south a T34 has been abandoned by its crew. Not many points there. A couple of T34s sit in overwatch positions, making it difficult for me to do my own mopping up here.
The terrain is full of damaged and burning vehicles and the mangled bodies of many men.
CHRIS
ussr TURN 19
COMRADES,
The end is in sight.
Despite the enemys recent reinforcements and his desperate aggressive counter attack in the North which has taken those VHs, his central force has been halted no further on from where it originally appeared! And his Southern area forces are now in ruins.
In the South we have destroyed his final Pz IV G which had tried to sneak up on those VHs (despite the abandonment of a T34). We have also eliminated a crew of a Skdfz 251 that was reporting on our movements.
The centre is a stalemate with his control of his home VHs being overwatched by an immobile Panther and those infamous Pak 40s as well as a MMG. This has caused us to hold up our planned retaking of these VHs until our forces regroup.
His limited success in the North is too little too late and the loss of 2 Skdfz 251 will slow his push down. Our overwatching forces will pin down any further movement until further forces arrive.
With only one more turn left this interesting situation and it's outcome can only be left to conjecture and what if's!
I have numerous remnants of SMG and engineer squads about (about 10-12) as well as 4 Kv-1s and a couple of T34s left.
In future I will ensure that I have some form of artillery (to help screen my forces or blind his, as well of course to keep their heads down!)
marshall
pbhawkin
The end is in sight.
Despite the enemys recent reinforcements and his desperate aggressive counter attack in the North which has taken those VHs, his central force has been halted no further on from where it originally appeared! And his Southern area forces are now in ruins.
In the South we have destroyed his final Pz IV G which had tried to sneak up on those VHs (despite the abandonment of a T34). We have also eliminated a crew of a Skdfz 251 that was reporting on our movements.
The centre is a stalemate with his control of his home VHs being overwatched by an immobile Panther and those infamous Pak 40s as well as a MMG. This has caused us to hold up our planned retaking of these VHs until our forces regroup.
His limited success in the North is too little too late and the loss of 2 Skdfz 251 will slow his push down. Our overwatching forces will pin down any further movement until further forces arrive.
With only one more turn left this interesting situation and it's outcome can only be left to conjecture and what if's!
I have numerous remnants of SMG and engineer squads about (about 10-12) as well as 4 Kv-1s and a couple of T34s left.
In future I will ensure that I have some form of artillery (to help screen my forces or blind his, as well of course to keep their heads down!)
marshall
pbhawkin
Regards
...and they lived happily ever after
THE END
A victory for pbhawkin, 11,300 to 8,300 points, although the game classifies this as a draw.
Germany retains its home VH, and the Northern set of 'neutral' ones. Russia controls everything else.
From a military point of view, I would have to regard this as a shameful loss for the German forces, and I would expect to be demoted and sent to the Eastern Front for my poor performance.
Hang on!?! I am at the Eastern Front! Oh dear, perhaps it is running a concentration camp for me then! This may leave me with some explaining to do at Nuremberg.
For my men though, they are in the halls of Valhalla for the most part.
C&C should be very much easier for Germany, since they have more orders and regain more each time. There is much more flexibility for managing their forces.
The reserves made all the difference for Germany, since I have almost nothing left of the original forces. Whether calling reserves is considered a devious sin, or a reasonable response to a desperate situation seems to be a matter for some debate, which we should resolve before we play again.
What did I learn?:
1. It's very difficult to take over another's set up and forces.
2. Setting three 'Gold Spots' within two hexes of one another is as useless as I thought it was when I first took the game over.
3. My view that no scouts = no vision = too many surprises, was confirmed.
4. I still hate 'per turn' VH, but I think I'll have to make sure not to rush, even though 'per turns' encourage this. This will help my play more generally.
5. I confirmed that I suck as a player, but that means there is plenty of room for improvement!
6. PaKs are beautiful things.
7. Panthers are about as reliable as that Fiat I had in 1972, but better gunned and armoured. At least I didn't have any windscreen wipers to break down when it rained!
Thanks pbhawkin,
Apologies to Kolonel Klinkenhoffen, you missed out on the (ersatz) coffee and biscuits in Moscow... but a few other German commanders did in the real world too.
Seig Heil!
A victory for pbhawkin, 11,300 to 8,300 points, although the game classifies this as a draw.
Germany retains its home VH, and the Northern set of 'neutral' ones. Russia controls everything else.
From a military point of view, I would have to regard this as a shameful loss for the German forces, and I would expect to be demoted and sent to the Eastern Front for my poor performance.
Hang on!?! I am at the Eastern Front! Oh dear, perhaps it is running a concentration camp for me then! This may leave me with some explaining to do at Nuremberg.
For my men though, they are in the halls of Valhalla for the most part.
C&C should be very much easier for Germany, since they have more orders and regain more each time. There is much more flexibility for managing their forces.
The reserves made all the difference for Germany, since I have almost nothing left of the original forces. Whether calling reserves is considered a devious sin, or a reasonable response to a desperate situation seems to be a matter for some debate, which we should resolve before we play again.
What did I learn?:
1. It's very difficult to take over another's set up and forces.
2. Setting three 'Gold Spots' within two hexes of one another is as useless as I thought it was when I first took the game over.
3. My view that no scouts = no vision = too many surprises, was confirmed.
4. I still hate 'per turn' VH, but I think I'll have to make sure not to rush, even though 'per turns' encourage this. This will help my play more generally.
5. I confirmed that I suck as a player, but that means there is plenty of room for improvement!
6. PaKs are beautiful things.
7. Panthers are about as reliable as that Fiat I had in 1972, but better gunned and armoured. At least I didn't have any windscreen wipers to break down when it rained!
Thanks pbhawkin,
Apologies to Kolonel Klinkenhoffen, you missed out on the (ersatz) coffee and biscuits in Moscow... but a few other German commanders did in the real world too.
Seig Heil!
CHRIS
USSR final turn
Sorry, i didn't reply earlier, I am on night duty and was desperate to get to bed!
Comrades,
It appears as though we are needed elsewhere!
However, our forces have managed to finally destroy his last Pz IV G and a crew in the South and have still advanced on his immobile panther near his home VH. A kv-1 has recrewed and we were expecting a T34 to do the same soon.
In the North we have surprised an engineer squad and caused it some casualties as well as assaulting a Skdfz 251. we lost an immobile T34 to a enginneer squad.
End screen shows Germany 8300 points Vs USSR 11300 equalling a draw!
germany lost 24 AFV (as we did), germany also lost 32 APCs!! They lost about 510 men to our 350 or so.
regards
it has been a lot of fun
pbhawkin
Comrades,
It appears as though we are needed elsewhere!
However, our forces have managed to finally destroy his last Pz IV G and a crew in the South and have still advanced on his immobile panther near his home VH. A kv-1 has recrewed and we were expecting a T34 to do the same soon.
In the North we have surprised an engineer squad and caused it some casualties as well as assaulting a Skdfz 251. we lost an immobile T34 to a enginneer squad.
End screen shows Germany 8300 points Vs USSR 11300 equalling a draw!
germany lost 24 AFV (as we did), germany also lost 32 APCs!! They lost about 510 men to our 350 or so.
regards
it has been a lot of fun
pbhawkin
Regards