Sqz stands down. The AAR is now concluded. Sqz (A) vs. obvert (J)

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

It's a game. The challenge is immense. Much of the fun is in finding novel ways to solve a puzzle. The steady, straightforward, methodical advance works well, but dang everybody's done that. Where's the fun in mundane?

Mundane is the result of two eight hex naval strikes.

A word of advice in avoiding 8-hex strikes:

It is perhaps counter-intuitive, but once you think about it, this makes sense. In order to decrease the risk you'll be on the receiving end, you actually need to be MORE aggressive with your carriers or ships than you would if you were not thinking about an enemy strike. You need to move beyond where your enemy thinks you are going to position yourself (read: closer to him) such that you end up within striking distance. This may put you at risk of surface action, in which case you need to alter that plan accordingly. It depends on what your primary strategic goal is: is it to land your troops, or is it to engage the IJN? If it's to land the troops, just do that. If it's to engage the IJN and landing troops can (or needs to) wait, then deviate from your original non-KB vectors and go get him.

Another countermeasure can be to flood the area that is 8 hexes from your forces with subs. If KB launches from 8 hexes away, their position lights up like a Christmas tree (either DL 9/10 or DL 10/10) - better for your subs to get an attack off, even if your CVs didn't.

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

A word of advice in avoiding 8-hex strikes:

It is perhaps counter-intuitive, but once you think about it, this makes sense. In order to decrease the risk you'll be on the receiving end, you actually need to be MORE aggressive with your carriers or ships than you would if you were not thinking about an enemy strike. You need to move beyond where your enemy thinks you are going to position yourself (read: closer to him) such that you end up within striking distance. This may put you at risk of surface action, in which case you need to alter that plan accordingly. It depends on what your primary strategic goal is: is it to land your troops, or is it to engage the IJN? If it's to land the troops, just do that. If it's to engage the IJN and landing troops can (or needs to) wait, then deviate from your original non-KB vectors and go get him.

Another countermeasure can be to flood the area that is 8 hexes from your forces with subs. If KB launches from 8 hexes away, their position lights up like a Christmas tree (either DL 9/10 or DL 10/10) - better for your subs to get an attack off, even if your CVs didn't.

Thanks for this post. I was thinking the exact same thing. I'm not concerned about taking territory right now, I'm concerned about not sinking Japanese CV's. The next time my CV's are committed, they will be looking to engage the Japanese. I can't sink them if they keep ending up eight hexes away from me. I'd like to point out that both eight hex strikes have occurred by pure fluke, and Erik has admitted as much. In both cases it was a question of where my CV's ended up that led to the strikes, not anything Erik did purposely to make it happen other than simply committing his CV's. That's bad luck in my books and it takes a toll on a person.

I know everyone thinks I'm being a cry baby over this, but at this stage of the game suffering these two strikes in close succession has been a major blow. True, I've only lost two CV's and however many POS CVE's, but the fact remains it's pretty hard to move forward without CV support at this stage of the game, especially considering I'm still stuck on the fringes.

I'd love to get over it Dave Sindel and Canoerebel, but that won't happen until my CV's repair and I win a naval victory. I appreciate your thoughts, but as long as I continue to be a punching bag for the Japanese, this game is more chore than fun.

[Canoerebel]

Nobody said "get over it." That's a harsh and demeaning phrase. We said, "shake it off," which is a comradely way of throwing an arm around the shoulder of a compatriot, commiserating, and then patting him on the butt while encouraging him to get the job done.

If Admiral King were reading your posts, he'd remove you from command and install somebody who wasn't mentally whipped. Shake it off! Adjust to the new paradigm and figure out how best to prosecute the war.

[SqzMyLemon]

Right now I'm feeling overwhelmed and frustrated that Erik continues to get free shots at me and take advantage of the fact I'm limited to one axis of advance. Until I can whittle down the Japanese carriers, I don't see any chance of success.

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Nobody said "get over it." That's a harsh and demeaning phrase. We said, "shake it off," which is a comradely way of throwing an arm around the shoulder of a compatriot, commiserating, and then patting him on the butt while encouraging him to get the job done.

If Admiral King were reading your posts, he'd remove you from command and install somebody who wasn't mentally whipped. Shake it off! Adjust to the new paradigm and figure out how best to prosecute the war.

No offence was intended, those were my own words and by no means was I implying either of you were being harsh or demeaning.

You're right, my morale is shot. Getting humiliated in a game tends to do that to me. [8D]

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

Right now I'm feeling overwhelmed and frustrated that Erik continues to get free shots at me and take advantage of the fact I'm limited to one axis of advance. Until I can whittle down the Japanese carriers, I don't see any chance of success.

I don't think you're limited to one axis by any means... I forget what your map looks like exactly, but there are places you can go that aren't Darwin.

[SqzMyLemon]

I don't see any options that matter that wouldn't require me to use carriers.

Erik isn't defending the Gilbert's or Marshall's, he's pulled back to Truk.

I have no base of operations to move against Sumatra or Java. I chose Darwin because I could eventually support from Port Moresby and Normanton, until my fleet got crippled.

I can't move in Burma and I have no fleet to speak of to do anything along the coast of Malaya. The Australian, British and Indian forces in Burma are all but useless with no supply. I'd pull them all out, but then Erik would just reinforce the Pacific even further. He doesn't have to worry about me moving into China since I can't supply an offensive there.

I see no options other than New Guinea. It's also the only place I can use my air force, hence why I feel I only have one axis of advance.

[Canoerebel]

It's early '44, you have carrier parity (+/- a few) and the map really doesn't look bad. You have possible vectors of attack in NoPac, CenPac, New Guinea, DEI and the Indian Ocean. Your bases in New Guinea, CenPac and the Aleutians aren't that far from his heartland. This does not look like a hopeless situation.

You will need carrier superiority to move en masse, so job one is to preserve your carriers until you're ready to move. By then, you shouldn't need a "base of operations" to operate from. Imagine your about to colonize Mars, bringing everything you need with you, and severing every tie to earth. The Allies should be able to do that in late '44. Perhaps you target the Vietnam coast or the west (less expected) side of Borneo or a few of the zillion island groups in the Philippines or Shikoku in the Home Islands.

You can do a more methodical approach, but that's predictable, which carriers its own risks. What's to stop you from organizing something on a titanic scale and biding your time to then, raiding, probing, sniffing, etc.?

[SqzMyLemon]

My initial thoughts are to move in the Gilbert's and Marshall's based out of Tabiteuea. Strictly a few regiments supported by LBA since Erik has pulled out for the most part.

My original plan after Rabaul was to seize Hollandia and Sarmi, then move on Truk, Babeldoab and the Marianas. That fell apart after the first eight hex strike. I had hoped to open a second theatre by taking Darwin and threatening the DEI. That ended with the second eight hex strike.

So, I admit to having everything I had planned for go up in smoke and it's thrown me completely off my game.

I didn't want to have to sit for half a year before I made a move. Are you saying my best option now is to do just that? Nickel and dime where I can and then just simply Command and Conquer my way forward?

If I was to throw out an idea of what I might do if I waited another six months, would be a move between Iwo Jima and the Marianas and move straight for Luzon. Backfill to move on Babeldoab and the Marianas. Anything I plan is moot though if I continue to get eight hexed. Doesn't matter how many carriers I have then.

[Canoerebel]

It was a thing that no one had ever seen before and none would ever see again. King walked into the room, gently put his hand on the shoulder of Rear Admiral Joseph, and said, "That's exactly what I mean. If you can't move forward in little steps today, then bide your time until you can take big steps."

"And son," King added, "if I ever hear you refer to 'eight hexes' again, you'll be commanding a privy in Biloxi."

[Lokasenna]

I disagree about it not mattering how many carriers you have if you get struck from 8 hexes. Remember that every time, he loses a bunch of planes and pilots. Stack your CVEs with your CVs if your main concern is an 8-hex strike and set up a ton of CAP. He'll lose a lot of planes and get maybe 3 hits on things if he's lucky. No hits is far more common.

And yes, go nibble at the Gilberts while your fleet repairs and multiplies like rabbits. By the time you're done with those, you'll have a lot more carriers and APAs and CAs and CLs and DDs and LCIs.... and Corsairs, perhaps. And remember you don't need to come at his bases from the most obvious vector. You can zip about in different directions. What would he do if you went and took Marcus right now? It's sitting off by itself in the middle of a big patch of ocean. Big patches of ocean are your friend.

And remember to keep using your 4Es. You've got good bases in New Guinea. You can harass his island bases to the point that they're perpetually low on supply, which could change his resistance calculus when next you come knocking with an invasion force.

[Encircled]

Have you had any luck finding a solution to his stacked low CAP?

[dave sindel]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

It was a thing that no one had ever seen before and none would ever see again. King walked into the room, gently put his hand on the shoulder of Rear Admiral Joseph, and said, "That's exactly what I mean. If you can't move forward in little steps today, then bide your time until you can take big steps."

"And son," King added, "if I ever hear you refer to 'eight hexes' again, you'll be commanding a privy in Biloxi."

This is priceless ! [&o]

And Sqz - I'm sorry if you thought I was "piling on". I was merely agreeing with Canoerebel that it's time to accept what happened as just that - it happened. You have two well respected AE veterans offering advice on how to move forward. I know I've had my butt kicked many times already in my first PBEM. It's April of 1943 and I have but 4 Allied CA's left. Yet every day I look forward to a new turn in my inbox and trying to solve whatever new challenge my opponent has presented.

[JocMeister]

You are being far too pessimistic. I think you seriously underestimate the late war allied war machine.

Your situation isn´t that different from mine when I played Erik. I took PM in December 43, landed on Luzon before 44 was up and Japan surrendered in mid 45. I lost the ENTIRE navy in late 42/early 43. Everything. All the CVs and all the CVEs. Also lost most of the fast BBs and the CAs. Doesn´t matter. The allied biggest strength isn´t the navy or air force. Its the LCUs and the amphibious capabilities. You can unload a full army and enough supplies to keep them going for months in a single fricking turn. There is no defense against that.

Don´t bother going into the Marshalls. Its a waste of time and there is nothing of value there. Erik knows that and won´t waste time or assets there. Keep pressure up in Burma, and focus on the NG route. If possible try and recapture Darwin. That will force him to divert lots of assets to defend the lower DEI. The weight of the allies will eventually break him and once that happens things will fall apart very fast. A lot faster than you can ever expect.

Cheer up. You will get there eventually!

[SqzMyLemon]

Thanks for the recent comments.

I've never been this far into a game before and I don't have any experience with the late war Allied potential. I'm a product of my gaming experience and I've not been tested enough to know when something should be easily 'shaken off' to use the proper term, so Canoerebel doesn't scold me again. [;)]

I'm pessimistic because my gaming experience hasn't always been positive, so that has a direct impact on my psyche when things go badly. Do I overreact? Yes I do, but then I also soldier on and try to improve. Do I bitch and moan too much, yes, but in my experience more bad than good occurs in my games. At this stage of the game I still feel pressure. Sure it's self induced, but playing the game in this kind of environment is new. There is still a period of adjustment so every setback seems monumental. That will improve, but right now it's a big deal in my little utopia.

I do appreciate the comments. I'm just not there yet in perception of how this PBEM is progressing.

[SqzMyLemon]

I should be receiving a turn from Erik today, so I'll just move forward with the game from here.

[Lokasenna]

Just looking at the OOB in the replacements screen in-game isn't enough. You have to experience it to really "feel" what it's like. It's absurd. You have more things than you can use - plenty of replacements for things you lose. There are only a few things that you can't replace, and that's too many AGC's (you get a fair number of extra, but you need at least 3 to house your HQm's all at once), too many CVs (you can probably make do with maybe 10-12 instead of 20 if you have to), and too many APAs - although xAPs with full HQm/AGC support will work in a pinch, also. Just need more of them.


RE: stacked low CAP - they still get fatigued. Hit them in successive turns with fresh units. Also bomb their airfields at night to ding their morale.


I still don't think the Marshalls are useless. Taking them completely secures your direct route SLOC from Pearl to New Guinea, which looks like it will be a major base of operations for you no matter which way you go on the southern edge. What I did in my game was take them slowly, and use bases still in enemy hands as bomber training opportunities. I still recommend taking them while your stuff repairs. If, as Jocke says, Erik doesn't think they're worth defending then that's a plus, IMO [;)].

[SqzMyLemon]

I agree about the Gilbert and Marshall Islands.

I'll use limited forces and support with a few USAAF squadrons. Even though of low value, they still represent VP gains.

A more direct route for fuel and supply to New Guinea is also desirable.

I've been expanding Tabiteuea since capture. It's stocked with fuel and supply. I currently have a squadron of Corsairs present, but I'll switch it out with a number of army fighters and bombers. I'm just waiting for amphibious shipping to arrive to load up the Marine 22 Rgt. for the next target: Abemama.

[SqzMyLemon]

I haven't posted the recent game news, but three separate Japanese carrier taskforces have appeared off the coast of Northern Australia. One just ambushed a number of amphibious transports unloading at Groote Eylandt. The others are poised to support what looks like a counter-invasion of Darwin.

I'll say this for Erik, he's aggressive. He'll pay for it one of these days.

[ny59giants]

I play for two reasons - to have fun and to learn something new. Sometimes the learning hurts...electrons die. [:D] Try new things and even look forward to seeing CVB Midway in action if you go into '46.