Snow in Central Europe in June

[Shannon V. OKeets]

Adding more weather zones would make the game more complex and add to players' difficulties in anticipating what the future holds.

As it is, players can usually depend on better weather in the southern climes during the northern hemisphere's summer. This really becomes a factor in China with offensive operations switching back and forth between northern and southern China depending the time of year.

[paulderynck]

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

One impulse should simulate one week and a half, not only one day, that's the point.

Dear Warspite: I'm playing meanwhile only the Barbarossa scenario, solo, to well learn the game that I've installed lees than a week ago, and I am enjoing a lot.

Cannot though honestly hide perplexity, meanwhile, regarding the feature we are talking about.

Consider furthermore, that this scenario ends in January-February 1942 only.

If you are going to meet one or two realistically, but not so much game mechanics wise, unprobable (to say the least) weather situations in the summer, as Germany you are pretty screwed out. No way to ever get close to Moscow, while a very hard and tough time and expectations to make it to Kiev or Leningrad (not to mention, again, that experiencing protracted snowy or blizzard weather in June - in Moscow as well not only Ukraina I think, but the Russian forumites here may provide a more sound opinion - , well, simply not true).

Edit: Cruisers ASW ships; I read that the unit is thought to simulate a squadron of DDs embedded with the ship, so in this optic it should well make sense.

Turn on the ability to set die rolls, then do what you like. You can set it to anything FREX with research, your own approximation of what the weather should be per the historical record (except you can't change the weather zone boundaries). Or make your own weather table, roll on it and implement the result (except it has to be one of the ten allowed from the chart).

For playing with someone else, of course they'd have to agree to this modification.

[adarbrauner]

ORIGINAL: RickInVA

I appreciate the frustration the weather can cause. I think it would be nice to have a "historical weather" option for those that want such.

To the question at hand though, as a further thought the weather listed does not have to persist for the entire period of the impulse to be impactfull. One day of snow can upset weeks of planning.

I did a bit of light research about the weather in Kiev as a rough representation of the southern end of the Arctic zone. Kiev has an average of 0.2 snowy days in May. So roughly once every 5 years there is a snowy day in May. That one day could severely impact planned operations, so I personally have no issue with the possibility being in the game. There can also be once in 100 year floods, once in 500 year earthquakes, any number of improbable events can potentially occur, and, like Warspite, I consider that an asset of the game. However, as stated I think an alternate, historical, weather could also be made available and would be a good addition to the game.

Would you like to press on a small research please regarding rain in Leningrad hinterland region let's say, at end of January-Beginning of February, during current glacial era, and send results?

I've just lost all of the Finnish army on the Ladoga which suddenly melt at that time.

I call it the "Leningrad Spring"



Also some 3-4 elite Luft korps sank in the soft, deep and lethal melted mud of the Pripjat, at the end of January. Exactly as today.

Just the tanks did not sink. they've been equipped with floating pontoons, just in case.

Meanwhile the crews are enjoying the sun between one rain squall and the other.

Anyone from the region tuned here to say hello and send us an update about temperature and ground consistency up there in last two weeks?

[adarbrauner]

ORIGINAL: paulderynck



Turn on the ability to set die rolls, then do what you like. You can set it to anything FREX with research, your own approximation of what the weather should be per the historical record (except you can't change the weather zone boundaries). Or make your own weather table, roll on it and implement the result (except it has to be one of the ten allowed from the chart).

For playing with someone else, of course they'd have to agree to this modification.

Noticed your suggestion only now....

[Joseignacio]

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

I live in a place that is considered in the "arctic zone". Normally the golf courses here are open from mid-March to late-October. But... in my lifetime, it has snowed here in every month of the year, July and August included.

[X(][X(][X(]

[Joseignacio]

ORIGINAL: warspite1



- Countries that were neutral can be attacked

Poland, Holland, Belgium, USA, ..., and many others. Even USSR, I believe.

[Joseignacio]

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

One impulse should simulate one week and a half, not only one day, that's the point.

To be true, an impulse is two months.

And if you have 0.2 snow days in May, snow days don't usually come isolated, so maybe you have 3 or 4 days of snow at the beginning of May (close to April), and few more in the rest of the month (0.2*30 = 6 snow days).

As you probably know in very cold/cold weather, snow doesn't simply dissapears but stays, and it could have had a serious impact in transport and fighting as far as it is on the ground.

And let's remember that snow is not a big penalty in WIF, neither for movement nor fight or supply range, being rain, storm and of course blizzard in most aspects equal or worse to snow. Blizzard would be another matter, especially in May in Kiev, but that's not happening in the game, I think.

And a 1 day per 5 snow it's just an average, it means, may be one year you get 2 or 3 per 5 and another 0 per 5 or 0 per 30.

The game is assigning a probability so low that it may perfectly refer to that year in 50 which had 3 snow days per week, which would mean snow and ice in the roads all the month.

[Joseignacio]

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

ORIGINAL: RickInVA

I appreciate the frustration the weather can cause. I think it would be nice to have a "historical weather" option for those that want such.

To the question at hand though, as a further thought the weather listed does not have to persist for the entire period of the impulse to be impactfull. One day of snow can upset weeks of planning.

I did a bit of light research about the weather in Kiev as a rough representation of the southern end of the Arctic zone. Kiev has an average of 0.2 snowy days in May. So roughly once every 5 years there is a snowy day in May. That one day could severely impact planned operations, so I personally have no issue with the possibility being in the game. There can also be once in 100 year floods, once in 500 year earthquakes, any number of improbable events can potentially occur, and, like Warspite, I consider that an asset of the game. However, as stated I think an alternate, historical, weather could also be made available and would be a good addition to the game.

Would you like to press on a small research please regarding rain in Leningrad hinterland region let's say, at end of January-Beginning of February, during current glacial era, and send results?

I've just lost all of the Finnish army on the Ladoga which suddenly melt at that time.

I call it the "Leningrad Spring"



Also some 3-4 elite Luft korps sank in the soft, deep and lethal melted mud of the Pripjat, at the end of January. Exactly as today.

Just the tanks did not sink. they've been equipped with floating pontoons, just in case.

Meanwhile the crews are enjoying the sun between one rain squall and the other.

Anyone from the region tuned here to say hello and send us an update about temperature and ground consistency up there in last two weeks?

I was lucky to find easily an actual news of lake ladoga melting in 2000 (which makes me think some research would get more results), killing 8 people and isolating 1.000 more who happened to be fishing. In late February. And they were not crossing it from side to side, loaded with weapons and all the stuff, and carrying (or carried by) trucks, artillery et al.

Yo can download the article (in spanish) here. With photos.

http://hemeroteca.lavanguardia.com/sear ... 02&ey=2000

[adarbrauner]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_of_Life

[Centuur]

I understand his problems and frustrations with this. Think about it: it's all about knowing the rules and it's consequences. If one doesn't know the rules and suddenly the ice breaks, there goes your unit blub blub.

Things are about knowing when not to go on the ice and when to go on it. Same with landing aircraft in swamps. Experienced players will not risk units on ice or land aircraft in frozen swamps, except when making a necessary attack (on Leningrad f.e.). We've been there and done that...

The weather forecasts of WW II weren't exactly reliable too (especially for the Euroaxis, who lacked information out of the Atlantic ocean). The forecasters needed information from ships on sea and calculations were often reliable for one or two days at the most. Rommel wrote something about this in june 1944, just before D-Day. He wrote: "A storm, which wasn't predicted by the meteo, ruined my roses at the chateau today"...

Generals around the world had to gamble, where weather conditions were concerned. Will the good weather hold during my offensive, or will rain start to fall down? Will there be fog over Arnhem, so the Para's can't be reinforce and supplied and the airforce can't fly or will the sun shine? Weather was one of the most difficult things to predict in WW II. During WW II all warring countries spend a tremendous amount of money in trying to improve weather forecasts.

Weather can make and break a major offensive. Iced lakes are dangerous. And Lake Ladoga is really treacherous. It can remain frozen until april, but it can also melt in a day if rain sets in with temperatures of 4 Celsius in february. Especially the effect of wind (and it doesn't need to be a storm) on melting ice is devastating. And there's always wind on Lake Ladoga. The Soviets got lucky in 1942 with the ice conditions and the game has to reflect this luck.

The Barbarossa scenario is a learning scenario. If the Germans get good weather, they might succeed. If the weather turns on them, they fail. That's the downside of playing this scenario. However, in a global war game, the weather tends to even out IMHO and makes sure that things are not predictable.
And yes, it sometimes gets really frustrating. Mr. Hitler had to postpone the attack on France and the Low Countries 4 times, due to bad weather....

[paulderynck]

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_of_Life

https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpre ... the-20thc/

[Joseignacio]

Weather can make and break a major offensive. Iced lakes are dangerous. And Lake Ladoga is really treacherous. It can remain frozen until april, but it can also melt in a day if rain sets in with temperatures of 4 Celsius in february. Especially the effect of wind (and it doesn't need to be a storm) on melting ice is devastating. And there's always wind on Lake Ladoga. The Soviets got lucky in 1942 with the ice conditions and the game has to reflect this luck.

Very true Centuur.

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_of_Life

https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpre ... the-20thc/

I was going to say something similar, thanks for addressing it.