Who caused WW1 - revisited

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decaro
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RE: Who caused WW1 - revisited

Post by decaro »

ORIGINAL: warspite1

I too will conclude festivities. Not much to say without repeating what has gone before, but suffice to say nothing stated here has made me move my thought process. Specifically:

- I believe hiding behind alliances (which in many cases didn't exist) is a cop-out. The leaders, the politicians, the military all had choices to make. They did not have to follow any one specific path.

- I don't set any store by references to modern day international law as it exists today in terms of trying to conclude whether Serbia were in the wrong....

The Sixth Commandment, "Thou shalt do no murder," isn't modern and does include state-sponsored assassination.

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Capt. Harlock
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RE: Who caused WW1 - revisited

Post by Capt. Harlock »

Where I have altered my mind - certainly in the last couple of years - is that while I still believe that Germany and Austria-Hungary take the lion's share of the blame for the reasons I have outlined in previous posts, I am really not sure about the extent to which Germany had a cunning plan to start a wider war at that time (on the basis that they would soon be at a disadvantage compared to Russia/France).

There are three likely possibilities:

a) There was no plan but the Kaiser was simply criminally negligent in allowing A-H to dictate events once it was clear they weren't going to take immediate action (which would at least have been understandable).

b) There was a plan and the Kaiser was at the heart of it all along

c) There was a plan, the Kaiser was at the heart of it but he then got cold feet (or a sudden realisation that following through on this would lead to disaster) but by this time von Moltke and the General Staff effectively 'took over the show'.

There unquestionably was such a cunning plan: the Von Schlieffen plan. It was not the sort of thing that can be dreamed up and organized overnight -- mobilization orders, maps, railway schedules, etc, etc, had to be written out and put in place. The question is when exactly was the decision made to execute it.

For whatever my opinion is worth, I am inclined to believe option "c". I rather think the German military realized that the crisis over the assassination of the Archduke could be used as an excuse to execute the Von Schlieffen plan, and that was why they encouraged the Austrians to make maximum demands to Serbia. There is reason to believe that the Kaiser attempted towards the end of July to divert the German army to attack Russia, and stay on the defensive against France so as not to invade Belgium and provoke Britain. However, von Moltke apparently argued that there was no time for the massive re-work of the railway schedules that would involve.
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RE: Who caused WW1 - revisited

Post by Capitaine »

Lol. Military plans are not political plans.
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RE: Who caused WW1 - revisited

Post by decaro »

ORIGINAL: Capitaine

Lol. Military plans are not political plans.

"War is the continuation of politics by other means" - Carl von Clausewitz
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RE: Who caused WW1 - revisited

Post by Capitaine »

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

ORIGINAL: Capitaine

Lol. Military plans are not political plans.

"War is the continuation of politics by other means" - Carl von Clausewitz
And that's why nations have military plans for EVERY contingency.
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RE: Who caused WW1 - revisited

Post by decaro »

ORIGINAL: Capitaine

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

ORIGINAL: Capitaine

Lol. Military plans are not political plans.

"War is the continuation of politics by other means" - Carl von Clausewitz
And that's why nations have military plans for EVERY contingency.

I once wrote one for an amphibious invasion of Chile!
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RE: Who caused WW1 - revisited

Post by wings7 »

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

ORIGINAL: Capitaine

ORIGINAL: Joe D.




"War is the continuation of politics by other means" - Carl von Clausewitz
And that's why nations have military plans for EVERY contingency.

I once wrote one for an amphibious invasion of Chile!
Joe, please post your military plan on the amphibious invasion of Chile on the forum here...I (we) would like to read & study it! Thanks! [:)]
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RE: Who caused WW1 - revisited

Post by decaro »

ORIGINAL: wings7

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

ORIGINAL: Capitaine



And that's why nations have military plans for EVERY contingency.

I once wrote one for an amphibious invasion of Chile!
Joe, please post your military plan on the amphibious invasion of Chile on the forum here...I (we) would like to read & study it! Thanks! [:)]

I wrote it during my BNOC about 20 years ago, but wherever it is now, it's still the property of the U.S. Army. Suffice it to say that Chile is long but relatively thin strip of land on S. America's southwest coast that was subjected to multiple simultaneous amphibious operations that divided and isolated the country.
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