"It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J) vs Gen Patton (A)

[Lowpe]

Of course it was worth it, silly.[8|]

These results have to terrify the Allies.

[ny59giants]

True professor Lowpe. And he didn't see the other 7 CVs and 7 CVLs that are part of KB, but were not part of the action.

Question: How do player use CV Hiyo and Junyo? I have some slow CV/CVLs (below 30 knots). Do they still belong with KB or are they separate?

[PaxMondo]

It is always a tough call. If you keep them part of the KB, you limit your max speed range. If you don't keep them, your KB punch can be lowered by 25 - 40% (depending upon the speed cutoff you choose) and where in the game you are and what CV's you have accelerated/converted/lost

[Mike Solli]

Junyo and Hiyo are the flagships of MKB.

[mind_messing]

The question for my readers...Was it worth it? Did I buy myself more time?? I don't know if I sunk anything, but the shipyard at Pearl will be busy for some time.

Absolutely.

You nearly won a watch with the SCTF engagement on the Allied carriers. Just a shame it was fast flat tops instead of the CVE's. They die like flies from battle damage; I've even had the E-class ships sink a couple in the late-game.

Looking at the combat report, I reckon the Altamaha is gone. The Long Island, Pocomoke and Belleau Wood stand a decent chance of sinking en-route to a safe harbor.

It's an unfair VP exchange, but consider the larger strategic picture: you've managed to trade assets that are very replaceable (planes and pilots) for Allied assets that are less so (CVE's). Granted, the Allies get CVE's by the dozen, but there's more Japanese planes than Allied CVE's!

Just don't lose the KB, and turn every island invasion into a fight like this. Decisive battle is a pipe-dream, it's all about attrition.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing
Decisive battle is a pipe-dream, it's all about attrition.

As a Japanese player, I totally agree with this comment. If I can kill off a few APAs here and there with little to no loss, I'm a happy camper. I'll try not to engage the Allied CVs with my CVs unless it's a 3:1 advantage in decks.

[ny59giants]

43 Nov 27 & 28: KB & DS both retire towards safer waters

CVs:
DS was seen at 11 east of Baker Island on 27th and then off NavS on 28th.

KB is seen in screen shot. She is headed back to Truk for R&R.

China:
Chungking - Over 190 Helens hit the AF both days. Troops are marching through and once my overstacking ends, I'll start ground bombardments.

Kashgar - Alled 4e bombers hit my troops both days.

Notes:
Screen shot shows two things. Current position of KB and what warships are due upgrades in Dec 43. The 4 CAs are leaving Port Hedland for Soerabaja. I'm thinking since it will take some time to rebuild my shattered DB & TB groups to send these ships up to Japan for upgrades (25 days). So KB would be weakened until late Jan 44. I have another large group due upgrades in Apr 44.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

ORIGINAL: mind_messing
Decisive battle is a pipe-dream, it's all about attrition.

As a Japanese player, I totally agree with this comment. If I can kill off a few APAs here and there with little to no loss, I'm a happy camper. I'll try not to engage the Allied CVs with my CVs unless it's a 3:1 advantage in decks.

I'm 4:1 ... the IJ decks are so much smaller and the battle damage parties don't seem to exist. Lost too many CV's to one hit over the years ...

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

ORIGINAL: mind_messing
Decisive battle is a pipe-dream, it's all about attrition.

As a Japanese player, I totally agree with this comment. If I can kill off a few APAs here and there with little to no loss, I'm a happy camper. I'll try not to engage the Allied CVs with my CVs unless it's a 3:1 advantage in decks.

+1

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants_MatrixForum

Notes:
Screen shot shows two things. Current position of KB and what warships are due upgrades in Dec 43. The 4 CAs are leaving Port Hedland for Soerabaja. I'm thinking since it will take some time to rebuild my shattered DB & TB groups to send these ships up to Japan for upgrades (25 days). So KB would be weakened until late Jan 44. I have another large group due upgrades in Apr 44.

Painful as it is, you gotta do those upgrades ... at least in stock. If this is like stock, then the AA and radar upgrades are well worth the month of down time.

[ny59giants]

Pax,

I've been pretty OCD when it comes to upgrades regardless of which side I play. Right now the 4 Kongos and most of the Kagero Class DDs at in Japan finishing up their upgrades. Some of the "E" Class are due and will make their way to a port for their 12/43 upgrades. The ships in the screen shot will stop at Truk briefly before heading to Japan. Some of my Judy and Jill groups have zero planes, just pilots.

You will be getting the 1/44 turn in a few weeks. I need to decide what to do with various R&D factories as a model come to the end (Judy, Jill, etc) in early '44.

I'm a long way from having to use kamikazes, but I need to do something at some point.

Michael

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: ny59giants_MatrixForum

Notes:
Screen shot shows two things. Current position of KB and what warships are due upgrades in Dec 43. The 4 CAs are leaving Port Hedland for Soerabaja. I'm thinking since it will take some time to rebuild my shattered DB & TB groups to send these ships up to Japan for upgrades (25 days). So KB would be weakened until late Jan 44. I have another large group due upgrades in Apr 44.

Painful as it is, you gotta do those upgrades ... at least in stock. If this is like stock, then the AA and radar upgrades are well worth the month of down time.

Actually, it isn't painful to do the upgrades, just suspense laden. If the ships are upgrading safely, you know they won't be sunk![;)]

[ny59giants]

43 Nov 29 thru Dec 3: KB makes port and the "Siege of Chungking" truly begins.

Subs:

CVs:
KB reaches Truk on 3rd. Lots and lots of clicking to move pilots in and start to fill up depleted air groups. Ouch!!

China:
Kashgar - 3 of 5 days see Allied heavies bomb my troops

Chungking - 2 of 5 days of bombing AF as weather wins the other 3 days.
1st -

Ground combat at Chungking (76,45)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 134124 troops, 1378 guns, 954 vehicles, Assault Value = 4362

Defending force 555105 troops, 123 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 16415

Allied ground losses:
5049 casualties reported
Squads: 318 destroyed, 28 disabled
Non Combat: 27 destroyed, 6 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

2nd -

Ground combat at Chungking (76,45)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 134166 troops, 1378 guns, 954 vehicles, Assault Value = 4365

Defending force 550269 troops, 122 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 16071

Allied ground losses:
4577 casualties reported
Squads: 243 destroyed, 34 disabled
Non Combat: 36 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

3rd -

Ground combat at Chungking (76,45)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 134148 troops, 1378 guns, 954 vehicles, Assault Value = 4363

Defending force 546886 troops, 121 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 15867

Allied ground losses:
2641 casualties reported
Squads: 250 destroyed, 31 disabled
Non Combat: 64 destroyed, 6 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 3 (3 destroyed, 0 disabled)

Notes:
I'll keep just ground bombardments attacks at Chungking until results lessen. Allied supply situation seems to be very low as I went all 3 turns without any casualties.

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants_MatrixForum

Ground combat at Chungking (76,45)...

Aww, look at those points rolling! How much supply does one bombardment consume?

[mind_messing]

Don't be afraid of large IJA casualties at Chungkingrad! It's an opportunity to buy out good IJA divisions on the cheap.

If they suffer heavy losses in the battles, they cost less PP to change command. So if you get a few units trashed, get a discount on changing them to a unrestricted command and ship them off to a Pacific Island retreat with plenty of supply to get that well deserved R&R.

It's the Japanese version of the Eastern Front - you do your time in hell and hope for a transfer to easy garrison duty in France.

[ny59giants]

I have 5 infantry divisions at Neikiang (2 hexes west) and 2 more within two hexes of Chungking. Another 9 are on the road to Hong Kong and/or Shanghai. Some are already headed for bases (Guam, Horn Island, Palembang, etc.). So, I can rotate in fresh divisions easily. [:)]

[obvert]

A bit late to the party, but yes, those strikes are completely worth it. And whenn the several CVEs do sink that means a lot of planes go down too. You've really limited his fast BB availability for a good while, making the next strike that much more effective with all of that AA gone.

Get subs in the lanes to PH and you might just pick off something else too.

[Lowpe]

I think in severely overstacked hexes, you might very well be better off deliberately attacking, rather than reducing the overstack because of the overall disruption malus on the defenders.

If you have enough forces present -- engineers, and especially tanks and artillery to reduce the level of forts...then I think delaying the attack might be a mistake. I relied upon tanks to knock the forts down and engineers in the Divisions. Smaller dedicated engineers would simply get destroyed in the attack.

Definitely only attack with full infantry divisions no regiments or mixed brigades.

[ny59giants]

In my edition of "Art of the Siege" I have learned that ONLY full divisions are allowed to attack when it's going to a major siege. [:D] I was going to bombard for a few weeks, but since Dec 7th is almost here...

[ny59giants]

43 Dec 4 thru 7: The "Siege of Chungking" and rebuilding of KB.

Subs:

CVs:
KB is repairing at Truk and depleted air groups take in both pilots and planes.
6 CVs and 2 CVLs end up 2 days south of Japan by 7th (coming home for upgrades).

China:
Kashgar - Almost 100 4e 'beasties' bomb troop when weather permits.

Chungking -
4th -

Ground combat at Chungking (76,45)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 134129 troops, 1378 guns, 954 vehicles, Assault Value = 4362

Defending force 544086 troops, 117 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 15679

Allied ground losses:
3098 casualties reported
Squads: 225 destroyed, 14 disabled
Non Combat: 64 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Units destroyed 1

5th -

Ground combat at Chungking (76,45)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 134164 troops, 1378 guns, 954 vehicles, Assault Value = 4364

Defending force 540969 troops, 116 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 15554

Allied ground losses:
5096 casualties reported
Squads: 221 destroyed, 31 disabled
Non Combat: 9 destroyed, 7 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

6th -

Ground combat at Chungking (76,45)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 134156 troops, 1378 guns, 954 vehicles, Assault Value = 4364

Defending force 537543 troops, 115 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 15325

Allied ground losses:
4504 casualties reported
Squads: 297 destroyed, 59 disabled
Non Combat: 36 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

7th - To celebrate two years, we have our first deliberate attack...

Ground combat at Chungking (76,45)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 137287 troops, 1378 guns, 974 vehicles, Assault Value = 4365

Defending force 533484 troops, 115 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 15056

Japanese adjusted assault: 2318

Allied adjusted defense: 3389

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 6)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
3522 casualties reported
Squads: 19 destroyed, 619 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 24 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 39 disabled
Guns lost 31 (2 destroyed, 29 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
68485 casualties reported
Squads: 2359 destroyed, 413 disabled
Non Combat: 1955 destroyed, 175 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 27 (25 destroyed, 2 disabled)
Units destroyed 14

Most of the divisions have around 30 plus squads disabled, but with high disruption and fatigue across them all. They are divided, but the worst two are ordered to march 2 hexes for R&R while fresh troops march here. No fort reduction.

Notes:
A7M3 Sam to 5/45

C6N1 Myrt to 7/44

Ki-43-IV Oscar to 8/45

N1K5-J George to 6/44

China has been a major source of VP due to the number of troops destroyed. See screen shot!