Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)
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- Mike Solli
- Posts: 16734
- Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2000 8:00 am
- Location: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)
I'm thinking of reducing my DBs to 12k and TBs to 9k and then stagger my fighters between 12k and about 18k. Thoughts?
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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)
Ah! I think that's too high for bombs. TB's used to 'glide bomb' in a certain range but I'm not sure if that was removed. Either way I think it was a lower altitude range, @14k they probably just level bomb.ORIGINAL: Mike Solli
ORIGINAL: witpqs
Notice in the post above the TB's were actually releasing at 200'. Developers said long ago that when it comes to torpedoes the air group setting is for their transit/approach but they drop down to make attack runs.ORIGINAL: Mike Solli
I wonder if it was because my TBs were bombing from 14k feet?
Right, I understand that. It's the TBs that are carrying bombs that I was talking about. They remain at 14k feet to bomb. Probably too high to get good results. I'm thinking of dropping the TBs to 9k feet.
Intel Monkey: https://sites.google.com/view/staffmonkeys/home
RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)
There is a minimum for them to dive bomb, and I think it is 10k. At 9k I think they will level bomb. Is that what you want?ORIGINAL: Mike Solli
I'm thinking of reducing my DBs to 12k and TBs to 9k and then stagger my fighters between 12k and about 18k. Thoughts?
Intel Monkey: https://sites.google.com/view/staffmonkeys/home
- Mike Solli
- Posts: 16734
- Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2000 8:00 am
- Location: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)
ORIGINAL: witpqs
There is a minimum for them to dive bomb, and I think it is 10k. At 9k I think they will level bomb. Is that what you want?ORIGINAL: Mike Solli
I'm thinking of reducing my DBs to 12k and TBs to 9k and then stagger my fighters between 12k and about 18k. Thoughts?
I want my DBs to dive bomb. Why call them dive bombers if thy only glide bomb? [:D]
Created by the amazing Dixie
RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)
ORIGINAL: Mike Solli
ORIGINAL: witpqs
There is a minimum for them to dive bomb, and I think it is 10k. At 9k I think they will level bomb. Is that what you want?ORIGINAL: Mike Solli
I'm thinking of reducing my DBs to 12k and TBs to 9k and then stagger my fighters between 12k and about 18k. Thoughts?
I want my DBs to dive bomb. Why call them dive bombers if thy only glide bomb? [:D]
Ain't no more glide bombing, they'd just fly along straight and level.
- ny59giants
- Posts: 9902
- Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:02 pm
RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)
KBs air group composition is not as easy as this CV/CVL get DB/TBs taken off for more fighters. I would say that your very best Zeros pilots stay as CAP. Usually I go with 40% CAP, but I think some groups will be CAP at 60 or 70% and range 0.
One of the things John and I came up with in his mods was the idea of a CarDiv being 2 CVs and a CVL. A lot of this was based on our reading of "Shattered Swords." The CVL was to be CAP only, but up to the players to make the changes in air groups to have those CVLs reflect that. Changes to construction were made. Once repairs are done, you might consider this.
One of the things John and I came up with in his mods was the idea of a CarDiv being 2 CVs and a CVL. A lot of this was based on our reading of "Shattered Swords." The CVL was to be CAP only, but up to the players to make the changes in air groups to have those CVLs reflect that. Changes to construction were made. Once repairs are done, you might consider this.
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[/center]RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)
Assuming the speeds and endurance are compatible.ORIGINAL: ny59giants_MatrixForum
KBs air group composition is not as easy as this CV/CVL get DB/TBs taken off for more fighters. I would say that your very best Zeros pilots stay as CAP. Usually I go with 40% CAP, but I think some groups will be CAP at 60 or 70% and range 0.
One of the things John and I came up with in his mods was the idea of a CarDiv being 2 CVs and a CVL. A lot of this was based on our reading of "Shattered Swords." The CVL was to be CAP only, but up to the players to make the changes in air groups to have those CVLs reflect that. Changes to construction were made. Once repairs are done, you might consider this.
RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)
I remember the Sam mishap, just giving you reinforcement that you made the right decision.
You don't need torpedoes to savage his ships...those Judys' are great, and the twin bombs the TB carry aren't slouches either at finishing off crippled ships.
Although, one tactic which is solid, is to have a spare squadron of Judy and Zero follow the KB around ready to fly in fresh squadrons.
You don't need torpedoes to savage his ships...those Judys' are great, and the twin bombs the TB carry aren't slouches either at finishing off crippled ships.
Although, one tactic which is solid, is to have a spare squadron of Judy and Zero follow the KB around ready to fly in fresh squadrons.
- Mike Solli
- Posts: 16734
- Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2000 8:00 am
- Location: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)
ORIGINAL: Lowpe
Although, one tactic which is solid, is to have a spare squadron of Judy and Zero follow the KB around ready to fly in fresh squadrons.
Good idea. Now that I'm down 3 carriers total (Hiryu, Junyo and Zuiho), I have some spare air units.
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- Mike Solli
- Posts: 16734
- Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2000 8:00 am
- Location: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)
9 Aug 43
Sub War
The RO-38 attempted to close on some of the damaged Allied CVs but was caught by the DD Dunlap and hit by a couple of DCs. She got the dreaded “massive explosion” (never saw that in a sub before), so I thought she was a goner. Well, she survived but she’s hurting pretty bad: 37-83(34)-4-0. She’s headed for Truk.
The RO-111 found the remnants of the CVE TF and put two more torpedoes into the battered BB New Mexico (making 7 total torpedo hits!). Immediately afterward, I heard sinking sounds. The intel report showed her as being sunk and the Allied sunk ship total/points reflects it as well so I count her as a fish apartment now. In the retaliatory depth charge attack, the sub ate a DC and took enough damage to head for the barn for repairs.
As a response to all those who claim RO subs aren’t worth building, I respectfully disagree. Every weapon in the Japanese arsenal is useful, if used properly.
5 Fleet
Nothing to report.
4 Fleet
More quiet here. KB reached Truk and refueled and rearmed with replacement aircraft added. They’ll sit in port for a day because they have enough OP points to move only 1 hex. I don’t want them stopped surrounded by Allied subs. Tomorrow, they’re heading south again (minus Hosho because of speed considerations) to a location within 7 hexes of all the damaged Allied ships. The idea is to put them out of their misery. I haven’t seen the CVs since the battle, but they’re out there. Well at least some of them are out there. Wasp and Yorktown both had fuel storage explosions and Saratoga took 2 torpedoes and 5x 500kg bombs. All 3 of them have to be in bad shape. Another torpedo or 2 will definitely take them down.
SE Fleet
Rabaul’s airfield got beat up again. The secondary target was Kavieng. Here’s the current damage:
Manus: 100-17-0
Kavieng: 100-75-0
Rabaul: 44-100-96
Talasea: 0-52-0
SRA
Nothing to report.
Burma
The tank regiment will reach Warazup tomorrow. About 400 Chindits landed there on 4 Aug. They’ll try to push them out the day after.
China
I bombarded again today. I’ve noticed their AV increased to about 15k while mine is still at 6k. I’ll let the supply replenish and then try a deliberate attack to see what I’m really up against. In the mean-time, I bomb daily with 130 or so Sallies.
Other Stuff
Ok, I’m doing the math with carrier capacity once again. My main carrier capacity will be only KB. Between now and the end of September, it’ll include Akagi, Kaga, Soryu, Shokaku, Zuikaku and Ryujo. Hosho is going back to MKB. Currently, the numbers are:
Fighters: 201
Dive Bombers: 90
Torpedo Bombers: 117
Regardless of whether the 3 US CVs were sunk or damaged, they’re out of commission for a good long time. That leaves 6 CVs and 3 CVLs available, some of which are damaged. Assuming the damaged ones are repaired, that gives them:
Fighters: 240
Dive Bombers: 216
Torpedo Bombers: 144
The good news is that I get CVLs Chitose and Chiyoda (21 F and 9 TB each) at the end of August and the CVs Katsuragi, Amagi and Unryu (36 F, 18 DB, 9 TB each) and CVLs Mizuho and Nisshin (21 F and 9 TB each) at the end of September. Add Shoho (21 F and 9 TB) in 18 days and that’ll bring my numbers to:
Fighters: 414
Dive Bombers: 144
Torpedo Bombers: 189
By the end of September, the Allies will get the following:
CV Bunker Hill (36 F, 36 DB, 18 TB)
CVL Cowpens (12 F, 18 TB)
CVLMonterey (12F, 18 TB)
That brings their totals to:
Fighters: 300
Dive Bombers: 252
Torpedo Bombers: 198
I’m not counting MKB or the US CVEs, because we know what will happen to them when they come across real carriers.
I’m going to increase fighter strength on some of my carriers and give more of the carriers the A6M5c. (Currently, only Soryu has that model.)
Sub War
The RO-38 attempted to close on some of the damaged Allied CVs but was caught by the DD Dunlap and hit by a couple of DCs. She got the dreaded “massive explosion” (never saw that in a sub before), so I thought she was a goner. Well, she survived but she’s hurting pretty bad: 37-83(34)-4-0. She’s headed for Truk.
The RO-111 found the remnants of the CVE TF and put two more torpedoes into the battered BB New Mexico (making 7 total torpedo hits!). Immediately afterward, I heard sinking sounds. The intel report showed her as being sunk and the Allied sunk ship total/points reflects it as well so I count her as a fish apartment now. In the retaliatory depth charge attack, the sub ate a DC and took enough damage to head for the barn for repairs.
As a response to all those who claim RO subs aren’t worth building, I respectfully disagree. Every weapon in the Japanese arsenal is useful, if used properly.
5 Fleet
Nothing to report.
4 Fleet
More quiet here. KB reached Truk and refueled and rearmed with replacement aircraft added. They’ll sit in port for a day because they have enough OP points to move only 1 hex. I don’t want them stopped surrounded by Allied subs. Tomorrow, they’re heading south again (minus Hosho because of speed considerations) to a location within 7 hexes of all the damaged Allied ships. The idea is to put them out of their misery. I haven’t seen the CVs since the battle, but they’re out there. Well at least some of them are out there. Wasp and Yorktown both had fuel storage explosions and Saratoga took 2 torpedoes and 5x 500kg bombs. All 3 of them have to be in bad shape. Another torpedo or 2 will definitely take them down.
SE Fleet
Rabaul’s airfield got beat up again. The secondary target was Kavieng. Here’s the current damage:
Manus: 100-17-0
Kavieng: 100-75-0
Rabaul: 44-100-96
Talasea: 0-52-0
SRA
Nothing to report.
Burma
The tank regiment will reach Warazup tomorrow. About 400 Chindits landed there on 4 Aug. They’ll try to push them out the day after.
China
I bombarded again today. I’ve noticed their AV increased to about 15k while mine is still at 6k. I’ll let the supply replenish and then try a deliberate attack to see what I’m really up against. In the mean-time, I bomb daily with 130 or so Sallies.
Other Stuff
Ok, I’m doing the math with carrier capacity once again. My main carrier capacity will be only KB. Between now and the end of September, it’ll include Akagi, Kaga, Soryu, Shokaku, Zuikaku and Ryujo. Hosho is going back to MKB. Currently, the numbers are:
Fighters: 201
Dive Bombers: 90
Torpedo Bombers: 117
Regardless of whether the 3 US CVs were sunk or damaged, they’re out of commission for a good long time. That leaves 6 CVs and 3 CVLs available, some of which are damaged. Assuming the damaged ones are repaired, that gives them:
Fighters: 240
Dive Bombers: 216
Torpedo Bombers: 144
The good news is that I get CVLs Chitose and Chiyoda (21 F and 9 TB each) at the end of August and the CVs Katsuragi, Amagi and Unryu (36 F, 18 DB, 9 TB each) and CVLs Mizuho and Nisshin (21 F and 9 TB each) at the end of September. Add Shoho (21 F and 9 TB) in 18 days and that’ll bring my numbers to:
Fighters: 414
Dive Bombers: 144
Torpedo Bombers: 189
By the end of September, the Allies will get the following:
CV Bunker Hill (36 F, 36 DB, 18 TB)
CVL Cowpens (12 F, 18 TB)
CVLMonterey (12F, 18 TB)
That brings their totals to:
Fighters: 300
Dive Bombers: 252
Torpedo Bombers: 198
I’m not counting MKB or the US CVEs, because we know what will happen to them when they come across real carriers.
I’m going to increase fighter strength on some of my carriers and give more of the carriers the A6M5c. (Currently, only Soryu has that model.)
Created by the amazing Dixie
- Mike Solli
- Posts: 16734
- Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2000 8:00 am
- Location: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)
Ok, next topic of discussion: IJA fighters
Here's what I have producing. Note that the Frank will start producing in a few days.
Model/Pool/Production
Ki-44-IIc Tojo / 63 / 120
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar / 67 / 128
Ki-100-II Tony / 56 / 120
Ki-84a Frank / 0 / 120
What should I change? scrap? increase? keep?
Here's what I have producing. Note that the Frank will start producing in a few days.
Model/Pool/Production
Ki-44-IIc Tojo / 63 / 120
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar / 67 / 128
Ki-100-II Tony / 56 / 120
Ki-84a Frank / 0 / 120
What should I change? scrap? increase? keep?
Created by the amazing Dixie
RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)
ORIGINAL: ny59giants_MatrixForum
Many of us had suggested and you agreed to get all your CV/CVLs back together. So I know you are kicking yourself for not following that "self" advice. [:D]
You lost the recon/intel battle as Ted seemed to have better knowledge of what you had vs what he had. Was it weather or did you not have enough Emily in area on NavS?
Why is the old, slow Hosho with your big CVs?

[:-][:D]
It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)
ORIGINAL: Mike Solli
Here are the plane losses:
![]()
Mike, see those navel A/C lost on the ground? Means a CV went down. My guess is Wasp.
It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)
Yeah, I was surprised at the inability to kill Hellcats today.
Keep in mind that fighters assigned to escort duty are at a disadvantage. That coupled with a superior A/C and you can't expect too much. Besides as you said they did their jobs and kept his fighters off your bombers. OTOH your fighters should do a bit better against his escorting fighters. Don't expect miracles, but you might get 1:1 if you have a numbers advantage over him. Its why I like the Zero 5c, good firepower against a disadvantaged opponent. At least I hope it works. Looks good on paper.[:D] At any rate you don't really want to down fighters do you? Its bombers you want.
It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)
The good news is that I get CVLs Chitose and Chiyoda (21 F and 9 TB each) at the end of August
Your welcome![:D]
Edit:Hope you did the other two as well. They would be available end of September.
Never mind I see you did.
It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)
CVLs Mizuho
Watch this guy. Only 24 knot top speed. Best sent to MKB.
It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)
ORIGINAL: Mike Solli
Ok, next topic of discussion: IJA fighters
Here's what I have producing. Note that the Frank will start producing in a few days.
Model/Pool/Production
Ki-44-IIc Tojo / 63 / 120
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar / 67 / 128
Ki-100-II Tony / 56 / 120
Ki-84a Frank / 0 / 120
What should I change? scrap? increase? keep?
Keep in mind that I'm in late '42 in my game.
This is how I see it. Too many Oscars. When Frank comes online cut them in half or less and put 'em to Frank. I like the Oscar for late war escort, but you shouldn't need too many. BTW the Ki-43-IIIa has the longest range of all the Oscars. As for the Tojo and Tony, I'd probably reduce them by 25% and put that to Frank as well. Remember as you start to field Franks the other model pools will grow and the more limited use will mean less loss as the Franks take over. Just my .02 Mike. Let's see what the pros say, and then make a more educated choice.
It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)
I've got a question for you. Where's that CVL that builds in November '42 without its air groups. They inexplicable come in a year later, mistake I assume, but whatever. That's another 30 plane CVL that could have some LBA fighter group on it to up your CAP.
It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche
Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb
RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)
At least Mike had his other CVs within supporting distance. Ted didn't; he could have had the last strike if his other 2 or 3 CV/CVLs were closer.ORIGINAL: rustysi
ORIGINAL: ny59giants_MatrixForum
Many of us had suggested and you agreed to get all your CV/CVLs back together. So I know you are kicking yourself for not following that "self" advice. [:D]
- Mike Solli
- Posts: 16734
- Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2000 8:00 am
- Location: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)
ORIGINAL: rustysi
ORIGINAL: Mike Solli
Here are the plane losses:
![]()
Mike, see those navel A/C lost on the ground? Means a CV went down. My guess is Wasp.
I suspected that was the case. Not sure which one though. First thought would be Wasp because she's the smallest. But look at the hits:
Yorktown: 2x500kg, 1x250kg, heavy fires, fuel storage explosion, don't think she sank.
Wasp: 2 torpedoes, 2x500, 1x250, heavy fires, heavy damage, fuel storage explosion.
Saratoga: 2 torpedoes, 5x500, 1x250, fires, heavy damage.
I'll take any (or all [:D]) of them.
Created by the amazing Dixie





