Wait... What! (NO Chris)

[RangerJoe]

It just needs to have an AIRBASE size of 1. Someone posted a map of it but I am not sure where. Let me look . . .

edited to include this:

[Uncivil Engineer]

Feb 6 Changsha FALLS!

Ground combat at Changsha (82,52)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 102271 troops, 974 guns, 609 vehicles, Assault Value = 2849

Defending force 52703 troops, 417 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1012

Japanese adjusted assault: 3843

Allied adjusted defense: 1469

Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Changsha !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
2665 casualties reported
Squads: 4 destroyed, 167 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 28 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 29 disabled
Vehicles lost 23 (13 destroyed, 10 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
19066 casualties reported
Squads: 910 destroyed, 20 disabled
Non Combat: 688 destroyed, 41 disabled
Engineers: 172 destroyed, 3 disabled
Guns lost 108 (70 destroyed, 38 disabled)
Units retreated 11

Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
8th Armored Car Co
35th Division
3rd Ind.Mixed Brigade
7th Ind.Mixed Brigade
27th Division
9th Tank Regiment
36th Division
3rd Division
116th Division
13th Division
39th Division
9th Ind.Mixed Brigade
51st Infantry Brigade
23rd Tank Regiment
8th Ind. Engineer Regiment
Botanko Hvy Gun Regiment
3rd Hvy.Artillery Regiment
11th Army
52nd Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion
2nd Hvy.Artillery Regiment
15th Ind.Medium Field Artillery Regiment
Tonei Hvy Gun Regiment

Defending units:
37th Chinese Corps
20th Chinese Corps
99th Chinese Corps
26th Chinese Corps
1st Chinese Cavalry Corps
5th Chinese Cavalry Corps
74th Chinese Corps
72nd Chinese Corps
39th New Chinese Division
27th Group Army
14th Chinese Base Force

At Pingsiang -

Ground combat at Pingsiang (82,54)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 3187 troops, 16 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 231

Defending force 5173 troops, 53 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 171

Japanese adjusted assault: 43

Allied adjusted defense: 27

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(-), disruption(-), preparation(-)
morale(-), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
28 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
237 casualties reported
Squads: 3 destroyed, 26 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 2 (1 destroyed, 1 disabled)

Assaulting units:
2nd Ind.Mixed Regiment
3rd Tank Regiment
11th Tank Regiment

Defending units:
88th Chinese Corps
28th Chinese Corps

But, the tanks just arrived and did not participate in that combat.

Java

Loemadjang was easily captured; one defender retreated east; the other was destroyed. 2 Tank Rgt moved into unoccupied Probolinggo and will capture in tomorrow. Back at Soerabaja, 150+ mines were removed from the harbor. When that's complete, 38 Div will load transports for Kalidjati, followed by 5 Div loading for Tjilatjap. 18 Div will arrive at Tjilajap tomorrow from the northwest.

Elsewhere, IJA troops landed at Biak, and captured Manokwari and Sansapor (both vacant).

[tarkalak]

ORIGINAL: Uncivil Engineer

...

So, now that I've got it, what do I do with it? As a result of the capture all the "stuff" there has been reduced to 1 - that's 1 resource, 1 light industry, 1 heavy industry, 1 refinery, 1 oil, and 1 repair shipyard. As much as Japan needs oil, I am NOT going to spend 189,000 supply to fully repair the oil facilities. What I'm thinking is spending 45,000 supply to fix all but resource to 10. But, most of that won't happen until Java is completely captured, as supply is needed for combat operations and fortification. The order of repair will be oil, heavy industry, refinery, light industry, shipyard.

Each industry takes 1000 supply to repair. Light industry produces 1 supply per day, which means that every factory you repair will take 1000 days (2.74 years) to turn into profit.

Heavy industry is better with 2 supply produced per day, so 1.36 years to pay off plus some Heavy industry points.

That is if you have enough Resources to feed them, and if you need to ship in/repair Resources as well, your pay off is even farther away.

[jdsrae]

Soerabaja, same happened in my latest AI game.
As I can spare the supply I am repairing all Oil, I expanded the RSY to about 20 to allow repair of CAs and a few other things at the same time.
I repaired Refineries to about 40-50 to make some local fuel for the navy to use each day
Im not repairing HI, LI or Resources at all. I thought about HI but it will take me so long to repair all the Oil I decided against it.
Each Oil turns into something like 9 fuel and the Home Islands have an excess of Refineries so I feel that repairing Oil centres is worth it to try and keep them producing fuel for longer.
It’s “only” 189k Supply [:D]

[Uncivil Engineer]

ORIGINAL: jdsrae

Soerabaja, same happened in my latest AI game.
As I can spare the supply I am repairing all Oil, I expanded the RSY to about 20 to allow repair of CAs and a few other things at the same time.
I repaired Refineries to about 40-50 to make some local fuel for the navy to use each day
Im not repairing HI, LI or Resources at all. I thought about HI but it will take me so long to repair all the Oil I decided against it.
Each Oil turns into something like 9 fuel and the Home Islands have an excess of Refineries so I feel that repairing Oil centres is worth it to try and keep them producing fuel for longer.
It’s “only” 189k Supply [:D]

Once Java is captured, Tjepoe's refinery can make the local fuel needs. My problem is Singapore had the same fate - everything was reduced to 1 (although no oil nor refinery there). Fortunately, Palembang had no damage at all. If Rangoon/Magwe end up destroyed, I'll likely repair more at Soerabaja, and less at Rangoon. I'd rather spend the supply to repair Miri than Soerabaja, that's another 180k because it too was damaged.

[Uncivil Engineer]

ORIGINAL: tarkalak

ORIGINAL: Uncivil Engineer

...

So, now that I've got it, what do I do with it? As a result of the capture all the "stuff" there has been reduced to 1 - that's 1 resource, 1 light industry, 1 heavy industry, 1 refinery, 1 oil, and 1 repair shipyard. As much as Japan needs oil, I am NOT going to spend 189,000 supply to fully repair the oil facilities. What I'm thinking is spending 45,000 supply to fix all but resource to 10. But, most of that won't happen until Java is completely captured, as supply is needed for combat operations and fortification. The order of repair will be oil, heavy industry, refinery, light industry, shipyard.

Each industry takes 1000 supply to repair. Light industry produces 1 supply per day, which means that every factory you repair will take 1000 days (2.74 years) to turn into profit.

Heavy industry is better with 2 supply produced per day, so 1.36 years to pay off plus some Heavy industry points.

That is if you have enough Resources to feed them, and if you need to ship in/repair Resources as well, your pay off is even farther away.

Right, I realize all that - but 9k supply to get some local LI going is a small price to pay. If resource needs to be shipped in (not likely), there's plenty at Bandjermasin across the Java Sea. So far, 1 oil point has been repaired; none of the others have started.

[Uncivil Engineer]

Feb 7



The CV is reported sunk (because of the 3 torpedo hits), whether true or not there are no carrier air losses reported; but, they were within easy range of Noumea, so could have flow there. I'm considering paying Noumea a visit just in case Sara made it there. I would attack with Zeroes and Kates at 9 range.

[Uncivil Engineer]

Feb 7 (continued)

Sub attack near Anatom at 119,161

Japanese Ships
SS I-20

Allied Ships
CV Saratoga, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
CA Minneapolis
CA New Orleans
CA Chicago
CA Northampton
DD Balch
DD Maury
DD Craven
DD Ralph Talbot
DD Bagley
DD Dale
DD Hull
DD Farragut
DD Clark

Ammo storage explosion on CV Saratoga
SS I-20 launches 8 torpedoes at CV Saratoga
DD Dale fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Hull fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Farragut fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Clark fails to find sub and abandons search
Escort abandons search for sub

Mouseover still shows a CV (and 1 other ship) in the hex, with aircraft aboard. So, best guess - it's in serious trouble, but hasn't sunk.

On Java, Probolinggo has been captured, and now 2 and 8 Tank Rgts head to Bandjoewangi at the east end of the island.

Elsewhere, IJA troops captured Biak. Samarinda's oil facility has been completely repaired.

[RangerJoe]

If aircraft could not fly off her and she went down, you would see the losses as ground losses before you see her on the sunken ship list.

[Uncivil Engineer]

Here's the email exchange preceding and with the turn:

My esteemed opponent - "How did you track and torpedo my carrier?
It was well south of the normal shipping lanes, had a large DD screen, multiple carrier and float squadrons on ASW and Recon and long range patrol aircraft covering the route?"

Me - "Dumb luck (it's better than no luck at all)."

My esteemed opponent - "Glad to learn my codes haven't been penetrated. LOL.
I must admit to a certain collapse of moral with the loss of a second carrier and its entire air complement.
Added to the disaster in China, Java and Malaya it is a disheartening time for the Allies."

That's the best intel the Japanese have had since Dec 7 !!

[Uncivil Engineer]

And to confirm -

[Bif1961]

Yep she's a goner. [&o]

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: Uncivil Engineer

ORIGINAL: tarkalak

ORIGINAL: Uncivil Engineer

...

So, now that I've got it, what do I do with it? As a result of the capture all the "stuff" there has been reduced to 1 - that's 1 resource, 1 light industry, 1 heavy industry, 1 refinery, 1 oil, and 1 repair shipyard. As much as Japan needs oil, I am NOT going to spend 189,000 supply to fully repair the oil facilities. What I'm thinking is spending 45,000 supply to fix all but resource to 10. But, most of that won't happen until Java is completely captured, as supply is needed for combat operations and fortification. The order of repair will be oil, heavy industry, refinery, light industry, shipyard.

Each industry takes 1000 supply to repair. Light industry produces 1 supply per day, which means that every factory you repair will take 1000 days (2.74 years) to turn into profit.

Heavy industry is better with 2 supply produced per day, so 1.36 years to pay off plus some Heavy industry points.

That is if you have enough Resources to feed them, and if you need to ship in/repair Resources as well, your pay off is even farther away.

Right, I realize all that - but 9k supply to get some local LI going is a small price to pay. If resource needs to be shipped in (not likely), there's plenty at Bandjermasin across the Java Sea. So far, 1 oil point has been repaired; none of the others have started.

This is the argument I faced many years ago with rebuilding damaged supply in Bangkok Certainly the war would end before it would be worth the investment. But producing supplies on a rail line meant propagation of supplies that was worth a savings in fuel to ship supplies to Bangkok. At least my calculations. Besides I had the supplies to spare .

[RangerJoe]

Look at it another way, if you save the supplies by not repairing you will not collect interest . . .

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces
This is the argument I faced many years ago with rebuilding damaged supply in Bangkok Certainly the war would end before it would be worth the investment. But producing supplies on a rail line meant propagation of supplies that was worth a savings in fuel to ship supplies to Bangkok. At least my calculations. Besides I had the supplies to spare .

You can always gradually propagate out of the stockpile (that overwise would be spent on repairs). And you would still need fuel to bring that stockpile.
The only plausible reason for me to repair LI out there is that it is pretty hard to bomb it out. And nigh impossible in a dot base for example. So if you plan a self-sufficient base with a small garrison resistant to pounding, you can think about that. Not sure if the stock map has many such bases though.

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
Look at it another way, if you save the supplies by not repairing you will not collect interest . . .

It does not work that way because word "interest" usually assumes you will also get your initial deposit back on maturity. In our case it a return on sunk investment. NPV can be calculated just fine anyway

[Uncivil Engineer]

Feb 8

A very slow day.

102 mines were cleared at Soerabaja, but still more to go.

26 mines cleared at Sabang (all done).

IJA troops landed at Sorong.

I expect the surrounded Chinese corps at Pingsiang to surrender within the next day or so, as it now appears to be combat ineffective.

[RangerJoe]

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
Look at it another way, if you save the supplies by not repairing you will not collect interest . . .

It does not work that way because word "interest" usually assumes you will also get your initial deposit back on maturity. In our case it a return on sunk investment. NPV can be calculated just fine anyway

I think that you are mistaken. You will get your principle back at the rate of 1 supply unit per turn until you get 1000 back, anything after that would be interest. If you dumped 1000 supply units at a dot base and never used it nor was it destroyed, after 1000 days you still have the supply but it will not increase by 1 supply point per turn.

[Uncivil Engineer]

Feb 9

Finally got a turn today, after about a week.

The surrounded Chinese corps at Pingsiang (not defending it, cause IJA controls the base) surrendered. Thus the road to Hengyang is open. The hex between Changsha and Pingsiang, defended by one Chinese corps will be taken within a day or 2. All the Chinese units south of Hengyang to Kukong will soon be surrounded, or retreated into the woods west of the main road/railroad.

IJA troops landed at Nabire.

Ha-45 engines advance a month from August 43 to July. They should continue to advance a month every 17 days.

The 3 brigades of 21 Div will be at Rabaul in a few days (one is there, one arrives tomorrow, and the third is passing Babeldaob). After some rest they will take Shortland and Munda. I'll need to scrounge up some aviation support to go in with them. KB (minus) is nearby.

[Uncivil Engineer]

Feb 10

Nabire flipped as troops unloaded.

Java

Tjilatjap was captured -

Ground combat at Tjilatjap (51,102)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 14048 troops, 175 guns, 83 vehicles, Assault Value = 455

Defending force 6545 troops, 80 guns, 106 vehicles, Assault Value = 192

Japanese adjusted assault: 358

Allied adjusted defense: 111

Japanese assault odds: 3 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Tjilatjap !!!
Allied aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft losses
B-339D: 1 destroyed

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
270 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 14 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled

Allied ground losses:
1591 casualties reported
Squads: 92 destroyed, 8 disabled
Non Combat: 187 destroyed, 8 disabled
Engineers: 9 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 43 (39 destroyed, 4 disabled)
Vehicles lost 81 (81 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 9 off the road and into the jungle

Assaulting units:
18th Division
3rd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
18th Medium Field Artillery Regiment

Defending units:
Tjilatjap KNIL Battalion
Mobiele Eenheid Battalion
4th KNIL Regiment
5th Coastal Gun Battalion
1st KNIL Landstorm Battalion
Semarang Base Force
Tjilitap Base Force
Djojakarta Base Force
ABDA /1

And Soerabaja was swept of mines. Soerabaja also failed HI production for lack of fuel (since it's not making much). I've got too many ships in and around Java loading 5 and 38 Divs and sucking up all the fuel, but more is enroute from Bandjermasin and Balikpapan.

Bataan

First deliberate attack here in weeks, and although I thought I had kept the airfield damaged so forts couldn't be built, I was wrong, as they had increased from 3 to 4 -

Ground combat at Bataan (78,77)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 37109 troops, 411 guns, 528 vehicles, Assault Value = 1506

Defending force 29507 troops, 473 guns, 443 vehicles, Assault Value = 682

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 3

Japanese adjusted assault: 495

Allied adjusted defense: 1839

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 3 (fort level 3)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
1686 casualties reported
Squads: 6 destroyed, 115 disabled
Non Combat: 7 destroyed, 42 disabled
Engineers: 34 destroyed, 111 disabled
Vehicles lost 61 (6 destroyed, 55 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
940 casualties reported
Squads: 19 destroyed, 128 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 30 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 7 disabled
Guns lost 30 (3 destroyed, 27 disabled)
Vehicles lost 15 (1 destroyed, 14 disabled)

Assaulting units:
21st Ind. Engineer Regiment
5th Tank Regiment
19th Ind. Engineer Regiment
4th Division
48th Division
65th Brigade
16th Division
4th Tank Regiment
7th Tank Regiment
14th Army
2nd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
48th Field AA Battalion
9th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
15th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
8th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
3rd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
20th Ind. Engineer Regiment
1st Medium Field Artillery Regiment
2nd Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
30th Fld AA Gun Co

Defending units:
57th PS Infantry Regimental Combat Team
2nd/45th PS Inf Battalion
3rd/45th PS Inf Battalion
4th Marine Regiment
21st PA Infantry Division
31st Infantry Regiment
26th PS Cavalry Regiment
14th PS Engineer Regiment
1st/45th PS Inf Battalion
4th PA Constabulary Regiment
1st PA Constabulary Regiment
2nd PA Constblry HW Regiment
1st USMC AA Battalion
USAFFE
201st PA Construction Battalion
Provisional GMC Grp
Subic Bay Defenses
1st PI Base Force
Manila Bay Defenses
Manila USAAF Base Force
Clark Field USAAF Base Force
Far East USAAF
Asiatic Fleet
I Philippine Corps
803rd Engineer Aviation Battalion
88th PS Field Artillery Regiment
202nd PA Construction Battalion
Bataan USN Base Force
301st Construction Battalion
301st PA Field Artillery Regiment
200th & 515th Coast AA Regiment
Cavite USN Base Force /3

Of course, since the forts were reduced by the engineers, they took a beating. Otherwise, casualties were about equal.

China


Attacks occurred at the 3 starred hexes. In the north, 116 Div(+) destroyed the Chinese 49 Corps. This stack will cross the river within a few days and shock attack the 3 Chinese units running west out of Hengyang.

In the middle, two Chinese corps crossed the river south of Hengyang and shock attacked 22 Div -

Ground combat at 80,54 (near Hengyang)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 9810 troops, 71 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 317

Defending force 11366 troops, 110 guns, 44 vehicles, Assault Value = 352

Allied adjusted assault: 130

Japanese adjusted defense: 422

Allied assault odds: 1 to 3

Combat modifiers
Defender: leaders(+), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
91 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Allied ground losses:
804 casualties reported
Squads: 12 destroyed, 131 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 16 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 8 disabled

Assaulting units:
46th Chinese Corps
78th Chinese Corps

Defending units:
22nd Division

22 Div will counterattack tomorrow while 11 Tank Rgt joins them in the hex. More reinforcements are coming from the east and northeast.

In the south, a deliberate attack at Kukong reduced the forts to 1.

The arrows show where IJA units will move tomorrow.

He can run, but he cannot hide.

[Uncivil Engineer]

Feb 10 continued


After landing at Semarang, 18 Div moved west up the north coast toward Kalidjati, but then doubled back on the main road into Tjilatjap (yellow arrow). This route gave the IJA control of the NW hexside at Tjilatjap, and forced the Dutch to retreat into the jungle west of Tjilatjap. These 9 units, though not very strong, will NOT be available for the defense of Batavia. Using the main road, 18 Div will be in Bandoeng in 4 days.

38 Div is loaded on transports at Soerabaja and will move to Semarang on Feb 11, then Kalidjati on Feb 12 (orange arrows), covered by a battleship TF.

2 and 8 Tank Rgts are mopping up the east end of Java at Banjoewangi.