2x3+ Team Side Game - BOTH SIDES

[Telemecus]

I refuse to be preached to by a guy who can master the Force but cannot master simple English grammar


You wait until Lictuel gets you with his PanzerFlammen and JagerBombers!

[Zorch]

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

I refuse to be preached to by a guy who can master the Force but cannot master simple English grammar


You wait until Lictuel gets you with his PanzerFlammen and JagerBombers!

There is method in his madness. Or vice versa.

[Crackaces]

Telemecus and I discussed some Northern Strategies before coming back on Turn 25. One thing we discussed is an atypical strategy of not building a static line but keeping North Active through 1942. Though there are only trees for the Soviet to defend there are places in which the North can exert pressure and the German 18th Army and Finn's could make a difference.

However, long term strategy must be put aside. There are immediate problems that must be resolved or the Finn'w will simply dissolve. The map below shows no rail LOC and the Finns have starved over the mud turns. With the start of the Blizzard units lack supplies and morale. A rail network is of an urgent need. There are multiple places within the Finnish areas that only need a couple of rail hexes and the line would be complete, but the HQ with the construction unit is not placed to do this task. Thus the urgency requires a German FDB to build out a line to supply the Finn's ….as well as any German units anchoring the line south of the no move line.

This job requires logistics …

[Telemecus]

And our first partisan strike this turn did not help either

[Beria]

T025 Soviet North

Darojax, Soviet Centre Commander
The 1st Shock Army is actually going to just west of Rybinsk lake.
There are no rails really close to there, so if our offensive starts at turn 25 and the cav corps are only ready on turn 25 then they wont be able to participate in offensive ops of the 1st Shock Army.

Darojax, Soviet Centre Commander
Okay then,...
Are those cav corps really powerful?

Mamluke, Soviet South Commander
yep, with a level 5 or 6 inf leader and attachment I think you can get 20 to 28 CV easily
during Blizzard, Soviet CV is doubled
and the sky battalions make then good at hasty attacks thanks to its CV

Darojax, Soviet Centre Commander
Okay. Then please send 4 cav corps to the area west of Rybinsk lake, and if you could please attach them to the 1st Shock Army so commander north doesnt get confused and steals them : ) Dont worry about too much CP, I will adjust
Or we could just tell him
But he doesnt communicate very much
So it is a risk

Then I request 3 cav corps sent to my forces just east of Ivanovo
Thast 38th and 49th Armies

Mamluke, Soviet South Commander
you decide that comrade, I'm merely delivering then to you I've already organized each stack by quality, just click on one of the divisions to found out
next turn you decide where to drop then

Darojax, Soviet Centre Commander
Ok, its just that 1st Shock Army is quite the ways away, west of the Reservoir.

Mamluke, Soviet South Commander
only 4 or 5 corps are of the best quality, I assume you want to put the best under the best leader

Darojax, Soviet Centre Commander
there are still 2 cav corps in the Northern front not assign to 1st shock army
They are not assigned because they are not going to be in combat this turn and because if I assign them now there will be penalties for the other units in the army
Another army is enroute to deal with the situation...
for next turn! : )

KenchiSulla, Axis South Commander
Should be about 15 cav corps max if they haven't made more so some will be hidden in areas that aren't clear
Hopefully they aren't all hidden E of Ivanovo

We only got 9 cavalry spotted?

Xhoel, Axis Air Commander
North looks clear of cav
a lot of Soviet assets there though

it's just two so far
right in front of Ivanovo

looks like they just got railed
yeah its a scary sight

[Beria]

Darojax, Soviet Centre Commander


...
Thats our strongest division in the Red Army atm
Just please dont compare it to the german units : P

Part of 1st Shock Army

Mamluke, Soviet Centre Commander
fucking beautiful

[Crackaces]

Not only are the Finn's weakened, but in hindsight the Soviet's have identified this weakness. The map below shows the immediate intervention -- build a rail to supply the Finn's. That and a flexible defense will buy us precious time.

[Crackaces]

The below conversation points out how team play differs from a heads up match up. The exchange of ideas leads to new understandings about how this game works. The Axis team is estastic when an infantry unit repels a Soviet attack that was suplemented with an Armor brigade. The Soviets lose more than 1/2 of the armor in the brigrade. A lot of factors went into this attack.


Telemecus 01/08/2018

Interesting battle result from Crackaces


Their comment to me "One battle to look at is at 103,26. 39 Soviet AFV's lost (some more damaged) to a unit with a panzerjager SU! Those 50mm hurt light tanks We need to be smart about stuffing the 50mm panzerjagers where those Soviet armor brigades are contributing … (Don't confuse jagerpanzer with panzerjarger "

Kenchis 01/08/2018

Not sure if that is due to the 50mm … Could be

Telemecus 01/08/2018:

the algorithm matches SUs and other elements with each other randomly - so in theory there should be a very low probability they match in the battle resolution - but when they do I guess it has an impact

xhoel 02/08/2018:

quite impressive results
its a bit of a shame that the engine matches elements randomly though
AFAIK in WITW and WITE 2 that has been changed

Telemecus02/08/2018:

for a while I started to think that random matching made special equipment like anti tank guns pointless
but I think from results we can see
that even if they are rarely matched
when they do the results are so spectacular
that the impact compensates for the low probability

xhoel02/08/2018:

hmmm well in this case it sure did

Telemecus : 03/08/2018:

Just been chatting more with Crackaces on that tank result - if you are into that micro detail like we are here are the latest thoughts from Crackaces "Not sure what blizzard does tactically except reduce CV; however, light woods is interesting. Normally the attacker opens the affair with their longest ranged weapons until the defense has a device in range; however, light woods modifies the engagement range. Instead of the offensive longest range – it is a rnd (x) range that is shorter. BTW ) Urban is the worse with a rnd(x) possibility of the start of pleasantries beginning at infantry ranges .

My speculation now is that because of the light woods, something else besides Soviet artillery started things and after an exchange of platitudes, a threshold was reached where the attacker ceased advance. If you notice with the spam attacks and low loss rates – the only explanation for this is an algorithm that checks the attacker vs. defender in terms of adjusted CV and when a threshold is reached -- the attack stops. I see a change in version 1.08 where on message level 2 you can see this calculation after each combat round. (Sort of gets lost at message level 7 [:'(] )

A look at the rules (26.1.4) shows that tanks contribute a lot to the physical CV portion of this formula. Whether it was anti-tank in MG’s or 50mm anti-tank guns – losing the use of 49 tanks significantly changed the balance of CV in the battle and the attack stopped before the howitzers could fire."

There is one lesson in this posting. The game is much more complex than just calculating CV and getting 2:1. Matching up SU's and mastering the firepower part of the combat algorithm is essential to mastering WITE ...

[Crackaces]

"Amateurs talk about tactics, but professionals study logistics."

The Soviet's have done an excellent job of identifying a weak point of the line to attack. They have marshaled forces into the area. The have created a well coordinated plan to isolate a large area of the Northern front. If everything falls into place my front will be in deep trouble. There are a couple of problems with the Soviet plan. The LOC in this area is limited. It is difficult to rail in forces, and once railed in it is difficult to deploy from the rails due to the terrain. The most deadliest units in this area -- the Soviet Calvary are still deploying and unable to exploit the weakest presented in this front.

Much like the Germans have about 15 turns of good weather to use their Panzers -- the Soviet's have a limited amount of time to exploit the blizzard. The clock is ticking .. tick tick tick ... I have one more turn than I expected to get a LOC to the Finn's ...

[Beria]

T26 Soviet North

Final deployments being made for the blizzard offensive

Mamluke, Soviet South Commander
cav managment complete.
your cav corps is on rail to your front, by next turn it will arrive and be ready to join the action at once, prepare the army of your choice.
Comrades, all cavalry now has the attachments of ski and engineers

[Crackaces]

The following conversation highlights the problem in the North ...


Kenchis:

Ammo is a problem
Some fin regiments are nearly out

Telemecus:

yes - noticed a few 0% even
I will ask Xhoel to prioritise some supplies to them

xhoel:

aye will resupply them, will have to transfer transport groups from other sectors but it will be done

Crackaces
"(Now back to my disaster in the North!)"

Still .. I am not sure why it took the Finn's to be completely out of supply for players to notice?


Now the plan .. electric slide forces Northwards to cover the weaknesses .. while expanding command points ..

[Beria]

T027 Soviet North

Darojax, Soviet Centre Commander
I attempted much stronger attacks more north in the front that failed miserably.
...
Think its gone decent everywhere except for the 20th Army
Couldnt push as far as Id wanted. 20th Army is the one that 1st Shock Army is supposed to meet up with when we encircle the enture german army east of the reservoir!
Also you asked me if I want anything reinforced, well the cav corps. Weakest have priority. Otherwise nothing specific
Ive set some of my units that became unready after fighting on refit
(after pulling them back)

Darojax, Soviet Centre Commander
Hope so
Midsummer '42 in Berlin!
: O

Hobotangi, Soviet Supreme Commander
All our ressources were put for this encirclement. Get it done people
We need to cripple the Germans as much as possible

Darojax, Soviet Centre Commander
Yeh, its not doing much progress, fighting entrenched full divisions
im afraid this is all that will happen this turn as far as the 1st shock goes:
But I think he huns will start sweating a bit in regards to their divisions close to the reservoir.
Actually one more succesful attack there
I wish I had a better feel for how strong these cav corps are
I now made one hasty attack with 1 cav corps+1 strong inf division against a full german division and we won decisively

[Crackaces]

While the Soviet's are licking their chops .. the mission of the new North Commander is to prevent a "Stalingrad". That is to prevent a whole German Army from being swallowed whole by the Soviet Hordes.

This is a question of sacrificing space and time to save blood (manpower in this case).

From an operational standpoint retreating does three things:

1) The owned but unoccupied hexes will expend Soviet movement points. Precious movement points required to deliberate attack. The morale 45 Soviets will give up 5 MP's per hex. A good retreat means they do not have the MP's to exploit an attack after using just enough MP's to slog through to contact.

2) I will flatten the MLR [Main Line of Resistance]. This will be a force multiplier along with easing the salient. No need for a Kursk like defense here. Flexible is the word of the day .. along with preventing a "Stalingrad".

3) I will shorten the LOC. The distance used by trucks in a blizzard ....

This does mean giving up Yaro ..something Adolph could not get himself to realize in 1942 ...

The map below shows the predicament.

[Beria]

T028 Soviet North

Mamluke, Soviet South Commander
Couple of attacks, swatting back their guys but an enormous cost. Team, wonders if this is really working out for us

Darojax, Soviet Centre Commander
A little, but it is slow. We forced the germans to pull back slightly.
In the center that is.

Hobotango, Soviet Supreme Commander
Yeah. No I saw the progress in the center on the picture, great job on that !! Better thab I could have imagined.

[Zorch]

ORIGINAL: Beria

T028 Soviet North[/l]

Darojax, Soviet Centre Commander
A little, but it is slow. We forced the germans to pull back slightly.
In the center that is.

Hobotango, Soviet Supreme Commander
Yeah. No I saw the progress in the center on the picture, great job on that !! Better thab I could have imagined.

Still a ways to go.
Anyone have a pic of the Kremlin with German insignia? [:D]

[Telemecus]

ORIGINAL: Zorch
Anyone have a pic of the Kremlin with German insignia? [:D]

[Zorch]

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

ORIGINAL: Zorch
Anyone have a pic of the Kremlin with German insignia? [:D]

Lenin will have rolled over in his tomb. [&o]

[joelmar]

Napoléon had that chance... people were so happy to see the Grande Armée that they lit bonfires of joy everywhere and made sure nobody was in the streets so the French would have more space to do their beautiful parade... such a grand moment!

Of course one has to put aside the deception of the inhabitants of Moscow when they realized that the parade was not as magnificient as they had hoped for, because the streets were way way too big for what remained of the Grande Armée, but that's another story... no wonder they kicked the French out, the show didn't live up to expectations



@Crackaces Excellent storytelling! you have style!

[Crackaces]

German North TURN 29:

The 50,000 foot view shows the LOC problem for the North Commander. There are few rail routes. We are building a supply line, but possibly too late given the Soviet hordes? It has taken a couple of turns to stage this offense and the North has caught up to build a single line to supply the center of the thrust.

On the other hand the Soviet's have committed forces, in this case a guards unit, to an area full of trees. There is only one German objective in the Finnish no move area. I question if these forces could be concentrated elsewhere? Certainly we are weak here, but I wonder about the strategic end results when the smoke clears? I will follow along with the reader to see where this goes.

[joelmar]

@crackaces

This has been a recurrent question, interesting to see the Genesis of it all through the how's and where's... but maybe some Soviet player will someday come forward and explain the why's?