2x3+ Team Side Game - BOTH SIDES

[Crackaces]

TURN 34 STRATEGIC

The map below shows the Soviet/German positions as the North commander is extracting forces from a possible Kessel. The Soviet's are paying a high price for the miles gained. From a strategy point of view, the Soviet's are at 4.6M Manpower. If they cannot build up to 6M by summer they will be in deep trouble. Until the Soviet's match up against the Panzers -- I will continue to punch exposed units in the nose … Note 7 routed units .. likely from the same Soviet Army as they are gathered around a HQ ..

There is one other thing to notice in this picture from a SU standpoint. The forts have infantry defending. Attached to the forts are artillery units. Attached to the infantry HQ's are more raillery and flak. Should the Soviet's decide to come and play these defense will extract a toll ...

[Beria]

T034 Soviet Moscow

Last turn we bumped into forts on the way to Moscow. The Black line describes the complete line of forts. We know from earlier in this AAR they have been digging since the summer good weather turns. They are now level 2 forts with enormous defensive CVs we are not going to beat. For this blizzard this as close to Moscow as we will ever get. We do not even try to attack them - those forts have done their job.

[Beria]

T034 Soviet North

The fangs are drawn as we pullback the main assault pincers to regroup and refit for summer 42.

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: Beria

T034 Soviet Moscow

Last turn we bumped into forts on the way to Moscow. The Black line describes the complete line of forts. We know from earlier in this AAR they have been digging since the summer good weather turns. They are now level 2 forts with enormous defensive CVs we are not going to beat. For this blizzard this as close to Moscow as we will ever get. We do not even try to attack them - those forts have done their job.

The forts, the units, and stuffing SU's was an idea brewed very early in this game. The forts were initially dug by the original Center commander that soon became the North commander's responsibility. Besides CV, the SU's matched up quite well with your Cavalry and Infantry units. I suspect that the results will be "Scouted" .. but if engaged would have been devastating for the infantry squads along with associated devices. Sometimes finesse works better than brute force ..

[Crackaces]

The North continues to find weaker match-up's along the line. In this case a lower morale infantry unit. We identify the target and rout them backwards. The AT brigade is a poor match for my longer ranged artillery, and the Soviet's have only organic artillery support.

[Crackaces]

TURN 35: Strategic

From a strategic perspective, the north commander is satisfied with the results from the previous 4 turns. A salient has been successfully straightened, and the Soviet offense is ground to a halt well short of their objectives. It is the North's commanders strong believe that this offensive was failure in many respects. The offensive did have exciting moments were I thought they would achieve a breakthrough, but one problem is Soviet manpower. The offensive used up blood to achieve what gains? How does the offensive achieve long term Soviet objectives? I would propose that it made the German's goals much easier to obtain in 1942 ...

[Beria]

T035 Soviet North

All quiet on the Eastern Front (North). 1st Shock army with its cavalry is now being railed away.

Neogodhobo, Soviet Supreme Commander
8th, 7th and 20th Pz. Div and 203rd Pz. Regiment are located in front of Moscow.

[Crackaces]

TURN 36

With the Soviet blizzard offensive stopped dead cold [so to speak] The armor moves into level 4 towns, which protects them from the ravages of the winter. The infantry now front the Soviets. The mud period will allow time from the armor to build back up with the factories turning out new tank models and obsolete models flung into the paths of Soviet rounds ...

My job is done for the Blizzard ..

[joelmar]

Very well told story and excellent comments Crackaces. I agree 100% with you in your comments about how the game is complex and how many players, even very good and experienced, overlook many aspects of it to concentrate on some basic principles turning around stuff like raw CV, which is OK too, but there is so much more under the hood in the pico-management world!!! [:D] And I think that is where long games are won or lost.

Another thing that is not often mentionned is that attacking with less men than the enemy has defending, even with much higher CV, can lead to bloody noses too. By example a regiment with 6 CV deliberate attacking a normal 1=1 division often fails, which makes perfect sense to me in reality.

You also gave me the lead for how to approach SU's and I've been looking into it more and more lately. By example, howitzer and guns don't serve the same purpose, and even howitzers of the same caliber don't all have the same capabilities. Even if they don't match up often against what they are best against, if they match up, often it kills. Not always so spectacular over 1 turn, but turn after turn, it adds up, and even more so against a player who isn't aware or doesn't give attention to that. So they have to be used judiciously.

All that combined with Beria's posts give a nice overall picture of what happened and perspectives from both sides... Well done guys!

[Crackaces]

I was given the task of stopping the Soviets' offense. That was accomplished. The AAR with juxtaposition posts tells a story. One side with a vision of an isolated Kessel and the other side pragmatically stopping that offense and looking toward the summer.

But, the posts also detail the precise thought about accomplishing those goals, and disappointments.

In the end, my premise was that the Soviet's did not have the manpower to conduct a meaningful offensive. If they had 6M, a level I have seen in AAR's, then this would be a different story. Worse, the manpower total is still close to 5M. At the end of the offense the same basic constraint to Soviet operations offense or defense. Manpower. As the summer is over the horizon only the mud season postpones that the Soviet's have yet to address this question.

[Beria]

T036 Soviet North

The best units are now moved back for refit and there are no ground battles this turn. But the Soviet airforce spam ground bombs the enemy up and down the front-line.

[Crackaces]

[/b] TURN 37 -- End of the Blizzard [/b]

If you note the Soviet plan it focused on a land grab with the hope of a Kessel. My thought for the Blizzard was for the Soviets to:

1) Conserve Manpower
2) Farm Guards Units
3) Centralized resources.

That would mean identifying a weak point in the German line and attacking with cav .. then moving lessor forces forward to take the German counterattack. Instead, the cavalry were exposed due to the need to exploit forward. The counterattacks were not against fodder but better units.

The Soviet's did farm guards, and this will be our bane in the coming months.

A look at the OOB shows the Soviet Manpower at about 4.9M. The Soviet's have a huge expanse to defend....

[Crackaces]

The Northern front at the end of the German turn 37 is shown below. Right now the Soviet's need manpower but they are defending meaningless areas of the map. Note the red Guard's units facing Finn's. I am thinking that the mud might provide an opportunity for the Soviet's to regroup. Right now, the German's are thinking about a snow offensive...

[Beria]

Turn 37 Soviet North - End of Blizzard

End of the blizzard in the north from the Soviet perspective.



In the south we had a plan but it was abandoned when all the Soviet units were surrounded and destroyed in the snow. In the centre we had no plan but seized an opportunity and got a pocket. In the north we had a plan for a pocket but got none.

The blizzard offensive was a success in beating out a corner of the German advance and getting many wins in the process. But the sector had been chosen precisely because it was a salient that could have been a pocket. And at times it did look close. But to start our offensive in the area we had to spend turns of the blizzard getting cavalry there. And supply so far from rails round the back of a lake after crossing swamps was always bad. If we were not going to get a pocket then it would have been better to farm far more wins at less cost elsewhere.

I think the lesson for us in this blizzard was make your plans for the best supply and rail connections. Farm wins as much as you can. But pockets can only happen if the enemy is stubborn in retreating - and then you just have to take the unplanned opportunity wherever it is.

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: Beria

Turn 37 Soviet North - End of Blizzard

End of the blizzard in the north from the Soviet perspective.



In the south we had a plan but it was abandoned when all the Soviet units were surrounded and destroyed in the snow. In the centre we had no plan but seized an opportunity and got a pocket. In the north we had a plan for a pocket but got none.

The blizzard offensive was a success in beating out a corner of the German advance and getting many wins in the process. But the sector had been chosen precisely because it was a salient that could have been a pocket. And at times it did look close. But to start our offensive in the area we had to spend turns of the blizzard getting cavalry there. And supply so far from rails round the back of a lake after crossing swamps was always bad. If we were not going to get a pocket then it would have been better to farm far more wins at less cost elsewhere.

I think the lesson for us in this blizzard was make your plans for the best supply and rail connections. Farm wins as much as you can. But pockets can only happen if the enemy is stubborn in retreating - and then you just have to take the unplanned opportunity wherever it is.

Excellent analysis!

Creating a pocket in the North depended on the North Commander cooperating with the plan. Deep thinking might be described as thinking about "what is my opponent thinking about how I am thinking about my opponent?" This changes from player to player. How does my opponent view the game and what is my opponents understanding of the game and situation are a part of the calculus.

I think one other consideration for a Soviet blizzard offensive is knowing where the level 4 towns lay. The place the Soviet's decided to attack had multiple level 4 towns housing Panzer divisions. Most of the 4th Panzer army was in winter quarters very close to the front. As the salient collapsed, the reaction was swift. The only question was how much blood to spend for how much space and time. The logistics of execution was a very straightforward decision. However, there were areas on the front line where marshaling the Panzers meant railing in forces. This would have caused much consternation -- especially in a team game.

[Zorch]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

ORIGINAL: Beria

Turn 37 Soviet North - End of Blizzard

End of the blizzard in the north from the Soviet perspective.

In the south we had a plan but it was abandoned when all the Soviet units were surrounded and destroyed in the snow. In the centre we had no plan but seized an opportunity and got a pocket. In the north we had a plan for a pocket but got none.

The blizzard offensive was a success in beating out a corner of the German advance and getting many wins in the process. But the sector had been chosen precisely because it was a salient that could have been a pocket. And at times it did look close. But to start our offensive in the area we had to spend turns of the blizzard getting cavalry there. And supply so far from rails round the back of a lake after crossing swamps was always bad. If we were not going to get a pocket then it would have been better to farm far more wins at less cost elsewhere.

I think the lesson for us in this blizzard was make your plans for the best supply and rail connections. Farm wins as much as you can. But pockets can only happen if the enemy is stubborn in retreating - and then you just have to take the unplanned opportunity wherever it is.

Excellent analysis!

Creating a pocket in the North depended on the North Commander cooperating with the plan. Deep thinking might be described as thinking about "what is my opponent thinking about how I am thinking about my opponent?" This changes from player to player. How does my opponent view the game and what is my opponents understanding of the game and situation are a part of the calculus.

I think one other consideration for a Soviet blizzard offensive is knowing where the level 4 towns lay. The place the Soviet's decided to attack had multiple level 4 towns housing Panzer divisions. Most of the 4th Panzer army was in winter quarters very close to the front. As the salient collapsed, the reaction was swift. The only question was how much blood to spend for how much space and time. The logistics of execution was a very straightforward decision. However, there were areas on the front line where marshaling the Panzers meant railing in forces. This would have caused much consternation -- especially in a team game.

What were the total losses during the blizzard? What would they have been in a smaller offensive, or if no offensive at all?
How would you quantify morale changes during the blizzard? With the # of elite Axis units wrecked and # of Soviet Guards units created?

[Telemecus]

T025-T037 Axis Air

Our indomitable air commander was Xhoel throughout the blizzard. Indeed he wanted to write the air posts for the blizzard himself - but we have just caught up for this in the period when they cannot easily check old saves to write it up so I said would cover.

Blizzard of course does mean bad time for flying. And so we decided to send most of the air force to the National Reserve to release more vehicles to the pool. Not all of the team agreed this was best - they wanted to keep more transports and other aircraft for local supply purposes. It was also a time to swap out some tac/dive bomber groups and rebuild the force that had been shattered in the battle for Moscow.

[Beria]

T025-T037 Soviet Air Command

Three Air Commanders for us during the blizzard!

Darojax, Soviet Centre Commander
Im going to suggest you for air commander
in fact I insist
: P

Mamluke, Soviet South Commander
well since you did most of the work...
I wanted to avoid it. but I can take it off your hands

Darojax, Soviet Centre Commander
Good, you shouold

It is De Ja Vu!!

But from turn 30 to turn 33 we have a great new dedicated air commander in Erzac

Neogodhobo, Soviet Supreme Commander
@Erzac Welcome Marshal,
You will find your office in this sector, I left every paper you would need on your desk. Please get acquainted with @Mamluke , he his the current officer who will put you up to date with your current task.
Do NOT disappoint us as you will suffer the same fate our previous air marshal suffered. And trust me, you do not want this.
Dismiss, and good hunt.

Oh I see you've already met Mamluke. Good then, carry on, carry on.

And the firm slap of command and control imposed

Mamluke, Soviet South Commander
but what about bombing units after they have been defeated?

Erzac, Soviet Air Commander
I can do rough geographical allocations for each commander, that if such a situation presents itself, they know what forces they can use.
But basically the goal would be that the ground commanders need not touch the air force much or at all.

Mamluke, Soviet South Commander
it would be interesting indeed, but I would like at least one air army (about 2 or 3 airbases for my self)

Erzac, Soviet Air Commander
On the controlling of air force
Basically any air groups that are not set to ranges between 1-40 after my go can be flown as the ground commanders please.
Also we can set some priority groups that are for a ground commander's own control, but with the caveat I may use them if needed.

Mamluke, Soviet South Commander
you can just switch off air units with range, is that right?
that mechanic will came quite in handy

Erzac, Soviet Air Commander
I'm happy to assign groups to each commander to peruse, but I'd also require direct control of most everything(and fly missions like bombing along discussed attack routes etc. in advance). Then if there's supplementary missions to be flown(like bombing retreated units) the ground commanders could do it with the assigned air armies.I'll only do the start and the ending air turn, and as the situation changes as the ground commanders go, the allocated air forces are there to be used as they see fit. can point out staging bases that could be moved if needed
For now just to sum it up
-I'll control the airbases (with the exception of staging bases that can be moved around)(edited)
-Allocated air armies are there for the commanders to use, but I also can use them to fly missions.
-Long range bombers are entirely under my command (unless stated otherwise)
Everything but the long range bombers are under the direct control of ground commanders and can be used during turns without any further ado.
But I'll also use them should I see any targets of opportunity etc.
Some groups, (mainly the very long range bombers) will have their range set to "1", and those are reserved for my nefarious purposes.
Other than that it's probably business as usual for the ground commanders. And winter is quiet time for air warfare anyways.)

[Beria]

T030 Soviet Air Doctrine

Erzac, Soviet Air Commander
First of all, I'd like to radically change the air doctrines at the beginning of next turn
Basically the req. to fly percentage to 0%, other mission setups between 100-150%, escort levels to ~10%
What that will mean is less missions, but in greater force.
But I very much prefer that when something is flying, it's in numbers that can make an impact.

Mamluke, Soviet South Commander
you don't mind doing manual recon missions? this is funny, I do manual bombing missions but I do recon automatically

Erzac, Soviet Air Commander
Well, personally I'll prefer to do everything manually
Recon, bombing, you name it

Mamluke, Soviet South Commander
dam, intense

[tyronec]

Where is the front line in the South for this game, haven't seen a screen shot for a while ?