Italy joins the Axis in October 1939!

[pjg100]

Couldn't IT just increase to 100% mobilization without automatically declaring war, leaving it the Axis player's decision as to when IT declares war? That would seem the best solution. There could perhaps be a failsafe of mid to late 1940 for an auto DOW if the Axis player plays too coy.

[Taifun]

ORIGINAL: pjg100

Couldn't IT just increase to 100% mobilization without automatically declaring war, leaving it the Axis player's decision as to when IT declares war? That would seem the best solution. There could perhaps be a failsafe of mid to late 1940 for an auto DOW if the Axis player plays too coy.

I also think that this could be the best solution. Mr Mussolini only entered the War when he though that the War was clearly decided and that he had nothing to lose. Leaving the Axis player the option to chose when to enter the conflict with Italy can destabilize Allies plans in the Med.

[AllenK]

ORIGINAL: Taifun

ORIGINAL: pjg100

Couldn't IT just increase to 100% mobilization without automatically declaring war, leaving it the Axis player's decision as to when IT declares war? That would seem the best solution. There could perhaps be a failsafe of mid to late 1940 for an auto DOW if the Axis player plays too coy.

I also think that this could be the best solution. Mr Mussolini only entered the War when he though that the War was clearly decided and that he had nothing to lose. Leaving the Axis player the option to chose when to enter the conflict with Italy can destabilize Allies plans in the Med.

A good idea.

Another suggestion would be to have a 33% chance for US mobilization to reduce by something like 10% to 20%. This would reflect the Italian-American community getting behind the Isolationist movement in the face of Anglo-French provocation.

[BillRunacre]

ORIGINAL: AllenK

Another suggestion would be to have a 33% chance for US mobilization to reduce by something like 10% to 20%. This would reflect the Italian-American community getting behind the Isolationist movement in the face of Anglo-French provocation.

Have you been reading my mind? [;)]

It probably won't be exactly the same as that, but something along those lines.

[Christolos]

ORIGINAL: pjg100

Couldn't IT just increase to 100% mobilization without automatically declaring war, leaving it the Axis player's decision as to when IT declares war? That would seem the best solution. There could perhaps be a failsafe of mid to late 1940 for an auto DOW if the Axis player plays too coy.

This is a great idea!

What is the downside to the Allies declaring war early on Italy to get them to join before they are ready?

C

[Christolos]

ORIGINAL: BillRunacre

ORIGINAL: AllenK

Another suggestion would be to have a 33% chance for US mobilization to reduce by something like 10% to 20%. This would reflect the Italian-American community getting behind the Isolationist movement in the face of prAnglo-Frenchovocation.

Have you been reading my mind? [;)]

It probably won't be exactly the same as that, but something along those lines.

This too sounds like a good idea but perhaps the suggested % chance and magnitude of change may be a little too high for balancing purposes. Also, and I would think, it would need to be in line with not only the number of Italian-Americans at the time, but how many of them were also isolationists.

C

[AllenK]

ORIGINAL: BillRunacre

ORIGINAL: AllenK

Another suggestion would be to have a 33% chance for US mobilization to reduce by something like 10% to 20%. This would reflect the Italian-American community getting behind the Isolationist movement in the face of Anglo-French provocation.

Have you been reading my mind? [;)]

It probably won't be exactly the same as that, but something along those lines.

Just thinking things through based on two principles. The first being not to be too prescriptive in what players can and can't do so new ideas and strategies can be attempted. The second being somewhat Newtonian; for every action there should be an equal and opposite reaction i.e. some consequence that is plausible and within the spirit of the game.

Answering Chistolos's post, the 10% to 20% range would be a random variable. With a normalized distribution it should mostly come up around 15%. It was a bit of a back of an envelope calculation to produce a roughly proportionate effect to the range of increase of the Italian mobilization. Perhaps a 5% to 15%, averaging 10% range.

[Christolos]

So the new 1.09.00 patch came out with:
While Italy is neutral, the US will now mobilize 5-7% towards the Axis if there are 2 Allied Amphibious units within 12 hexes of Syracuse Port, or 7 or more Allied naval units within 12 hexes of Syracuse Port.

While 1.07.00 came out with:
Mobilization_2 script for Italy added so they now have a 33% chance per turn of swinging 15-25% towards the Axis if there are any Allied Amphibious Transports within 20 hexes of Syracuse Port, or if they have 6 or more naval units within 12 hexes of Syracuse.

First of all, and for the 1.09.00 change, what does it mean if Italy is neutral? Italy starts out as 65% Axis leaning...

Secondly, and if I am reading/interpreting these right, isn't it still possible to get Italy to enter the war early without tripping the US to mobilize towards the Axis, by parking one Allied Amphibious unit 20 hexes away from Syracuse? What about also parking only 6 naval units within 12 hexes of Syracuse?

Also, and as an update to what happened in my game, i was of course able to destroy all of Italy's navy and get her out of the war, but this has turned out to be better for Germany as Germany gets control of Italy giving her another 175 or MMPs every turn, without having to deal with relatively poor quality Italian units any more. As it turned out, this has been very beneficial to my opponent (he said so and is happy with it!)...so it may not always be a good thing to get Italy into the war too early if your plan is to take it out completely (I also) conquered all of East Africa).

C

[Hubert Cater]

Hi Christolos,

Just to clarify, it is not actually a change in v1.09.00, it is just a note correction as the details for the v1.07.00 were not quite accurate, e.g. what we added as a note correction for v1.09.00 has been in place since v1.07.00.

Italy being neutral just means while it is not actually in the war as an active major, just felt clearer and more succinct to write it that way.

For your follow up question, if I understood correctly, yes it does look that way and I'll flag this one for the next update, I'll have to confer with Bill, in case this was not intended.

Hubert

[BillRunacre]

Both mobilization scripts are identical, in that they require the same amount of Allied units to be present, so it would be impossible to get Italy to mobilize without annoying the US.

What happened was that the text in the Patch Notes for 1.07.00 was incorrect, as both Italy and the US can be triggered by there being 2 Allied Amphibious units within 12 hexes of Syracuse Port, or 7 or more Allied naval units within 12 hexes of Syracuse Port.

[Hubert Cater]

Ah yes, thanks Bill, not sure why I thought I saw them differently, they are indeed the same.

[havoc1371]

The rapid mobilization of Italy was to forestall the Allied player from doing gamey things like buzzing Japanese ports, or setting up an invasion fleet waiting for them to declare war. Obviously, players have figured out how to game that into an unhistorical advantage as well. Maybe the answer is to implement mobilization penalties for America and Russia if the Allied player harasses Italy into an early declaration. Its a game, so gamers will find a way to manipulate the AI to their advantage to win. I prefer to play historically, changing historical play only if feasible based upon the politics and strategy of the time. Think about the ramifications if the combined British and French fleets stood off Italian ports... it would have made the Allies the aggressors and generated bad press in America and other neutrals, as well as condemnation from Stalin. The political penalties are obviously not strong enough in the game. If history doesn't matter to a player, then there are plenty of games out there without it. Try Sid Meir's Civilizations.

[BillRunacre]

There is a penalty for US mobilization too now if the Allies mass forces in the Med to invade Italy.

If this doesn't turn out to be enough then I have another idea up my sleeve. Not that I want to limit strategies, it's more about reducing any potential exploits.