Eliminating Montenegro on turn 2

[OldCrowBalthazor]

This image is of the JDZ-189 Locomotive. It was used to pull the train up and over the pass above Ragusa (Dubrovnic). It was incapable of utilizing the winding segment of the Narenta Line...it would derail. The other locomotives couldn't pull a laden train up the grade.

Note the size of the engineer and coalbox. These locomotives were quite small.

[stockwellpete]

The trouble with "operating" at the moment is that it is more like some sort of futuristic sci-fi teleportation (as in Star Trek). I have been trialling in my mod the idea that operating has to begin and end on a railway line and that seems OK. It would be possible for me to add some variables as house rules with regards to the different type of terrain hexes adjacent to the railway line in question, linked to whether it was during a 7 day turn or a longer turn. Then, another problem is that currently there is unlimited rail movement (provided there are railway lines, of course) whether you are in highly industrialised countries like France or Germany, or in less developed areas like the Dalmatian coast or parts of Russia and Turkey.

[Chernobyl]

Operationally moving units is quite powerful, despite costing MPP.
**Pet gripe #2 is how arty retains its shell count when you railroad-move it, which is far superior to force march which resets the shell count

It would be cool if strategic move was only allowed on railed hexes to railed hexes (no adjacent dropoffs).

[OldCrowBalthazor]

ORIGINAL: Chernobyl

Operationally moving units is quite powerful, despite costing MPP.
**Pet gripe #2 is how arty retains its shell count when you railroad-move it, which is far superior to force march which resets the shell count

It would be cool if strategic move was only allowed on railed hexes to railed hexes (no adjacent dropoffs).

Stockwellpete has proposed this....and it has merit.

[stockwellpete]

ORIGINAL: OldCrowBalthazor

ORIGINAL: Chernobyl

Operationally moving units is quite powerful, despite costing MPP.
**Pet gripe #2 is how arty retains its shell count when you railroad-move it, which is far superior to force march which resets the shell count

It would be cool if strategic move was only allowed on railed hexes to railed hexes (no adjacent dropoffs).

Stockwellpete has proposed this....and it has merit.

I am sure restricting operational movement in this way would help quite a bit with some of the unbalancing effects of these early game gambits as well.

[stockwellpete]

OCB, can you find any evidence at all on your maps for a railway line between Cetinje and Pec during WW1? I am not sure if there has ever been a railway line between the two towns, but there may have been at some point. The game has one, so if Cetinje falls the Central Powers can currently "operate" units right into the heart of Serbia by that route.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

There was no RR in Montenegro from Cetinje to Pec in WW1. There was on from Bar (near the coast) to Podrigca and on to Serbia via Novi-Bazar, but its was also a narrow gauge railroad that had to surmount a 40% grade! This railroad's gauge was also different then the Bosnian Gauge. A spur to Cetinje was planned but didn't get built because of lack of funding and the onset of WW1.

Here's a link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_tran ... Montenegro

btw..working on getting contemporary (for the time) RR maps and other data for Serbia and Montenegro. Finding that seems to give better evidence then using later representations of things of the past.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

So..there is no railway that connected Cetinje to Pec, though with the scale of SC-WW1, you could argue it does in an abstract fashion. This is done all the time with wargame design and other geographic representations. However, this railroad was also narrow gauge. It was designed by Italian engineers, and built by Austria-Hungary prior to WW1.

One interesting location the engineers had to deal with was designing and building the Mala Rijeka Most RR bridge, which when completed, was the highest railway bridge at the time. Even now, this bridge over the deep gorge is ranked at 15th highest RR bridge (2021).

Imagine trying to detrain a corp there.

[stockwellpete]

ORIGINAL: OldCrowBalthazor

There was no RR in Montenegro from Cetinje to Pec in WW1. There was on from Bar (near the coast) to Podrigca and on to Serbia via Novi-Bazar, but its was also a narrow gauge railroad that had to surmount a 40% grade! This railroad's gauge was also different then the Bosnian Gauge. A spur to Cetinje was planned but didn't get built because of lack of funding and the onset of WW1.

Here's a link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_tran ... Montenegro

btw..working on getting contemporary (for the time) RR maps and other data for Serbia and Montenegro. Finding that seems to give better evidence then using later representations of things of the past.

Interesting stuff. I recently picked up AGEOD's "To End All Wars" in a sale and I looked at their campaign map this evening. They have a railway line between Split-Mostar-Sarajevo, but nothing in Montenegro at all. The nearest railway line is the Nish to Skopje line in Serbia.

[Chernobyl]

To End All Wars has the best intro music

[Benedict151]

ORIGINAL: stockwellpete

ORIGINAL: Chernobyl

Why exactly does snipping the rail between Ragusa and Cetinje change things at all? I cut the rail line and I can still rail a German corps right next to Cetinje on turn one. I was easily able to take Cetinje immediately even without the rail connection. It's really the road, not the rail, in that tile which makes defending Cetinje impossible.

You really need to take the whole Dalmatian railway system out between Cetinje and Sarajevo/Split. OCB found out that it was a "Bosnian gauge" railway for the most part that would have been incapable of dealing with large troop movements.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chernobyl

Why exactly does snipping the rail between Ragusa and Cetinje change things at all? I cut the rail line and I can still rail a German corps right next to Cetinje on turn one. I was easily able to take Cetinje immediately even without the rail connection. It's really the road, not the rail, in that tile which makes defending Cetinje impossible.


You really need to take the whole Dalmatian railway system out between Cetinje and Sarajevo/Split. OCB found out that it was a "Bosnian gauge" railway for the most part that would have been incapable of dealing with large troop movements.

Fascinating research from all concerned, and I have to say I am convinced about removing the railway(s) in question.
Seems to achieve both 'better history' and 'better gameplay'.

regards
Ben