RtL tyronec (Sov) vs Xhoel (Axis).

[tyronec]

This is a rematch of a game we played during testing about a year ago; same sides.
This was the score last time.

[tyronec]

Axis take all the ports and good pockets on the coast.
I manage to reopen the inland pockets and get the SUs out. Try to be as annoying as possible with the units that were pocketed.

Strategy is to try and hold Pskov for a turn or two, then retreat to the heavy terrain and a slow steady pull back towards Lenningrad. Will leave a few units around the map border to tie down a few Axis infantry.
Depots around lenningrad are set to start stocking up.
VVS pulled back, may not use them at all in combat as they are cheap VP for Axis in these scenario games.

[Seminole]

Any house rules?

Motorizing the security units at the outset and breaking them down should mean unbreakable turn 1 pocket, and leaves them in position to maintain LOC for the week two panzer plunge.

Surprised to see so much of the initial Soviet front line untouched turn 1.

[Hardradi]

The rail routes north and northeast are still in your control. The one to the east to Kaunus (cant really see it) looks to be in your ZOC. That will slow but not stop the any repair in that direction as well. You also have units on this line where in heads northeast of Vilnius. Good results for you.

Looks like the majority of the Panzers and Motorised are in the east.

[Seminole]

ORIGINAL: Hardradi

The rail routes north and northeast are still in your control. The one to the east to Kaunus (cant really see it) looks to be in your ZOC. That will slow but not stop the any repair in that direction as well. You also have units on this line where in heads northeast of Vilnius. Good results for you.

Looks like the majority of the Panzers and Motorised are in the east.

Surprised he didn’t leave his pocketed units on rail line to deny the 70% chance of free conversion by compelling combat.

[tyronec]

House rules are no temporary motorisation and no super depots.

IMO it is good play by Axis to pocket units on T1 rather than rout/shatter all the ones on the border.

Surprised he didn’t leave his pocketed units on rail line to deny the 70% chance of free conversion by compelling combat.

Not sure what you mean by this. The important rail line is the double going north to Pskov. I have occupied two hexes of this that were inside the pocket. North of Daugavapils it could be occupied but that is going to cost a unit for every hex, I don't think that is worth the price.

Actually Axis don't have much of a supply issue in this scenario, they have port supply and the FBD. The only hope of doing serious harm to the Axis supply network is to cut the rail line mid/late game after it has been converted.

[Nix77]

Not sure which hexes or which player Seminole meant, but if a baltic rail hex is attacked by the Germans, it will always have to be repaired. So it's covering or occupying these hexes is important for both sides.

[tyronec]

Axis seal off all the units from T1 that escaped the pocket last turn, just a few get routed away.
Am building up in front of Pskov, will see what happens next turn but am not intending to make a strong stand here, just a speed bump and try not to get too much pocketed.

[Seminole]

IMO it is good play by Axis to pocket units on T1 rather than rout/shatter all the ones on the border.

The FZs will surrender, and there are combat bonuses on the first turn, right? I need to read up on what exactly they are.

Not sure what you mean by this. The important rail line is the double going north to Pskov. I have occupied two hexes of this that were inside the pocket. North of Daugavapils it could be occupied but that is going to cost a unit for every hex, I don't think that is worth the price.

The auto conversion really makes for different options, so I haven't gone in to it pre-decided in this scenario. In the general campaign I'd probably consider things differently with the need to collaborate regionally.

I was looking at the line to Riga. There is area to add two depots along there while waiting to clear the pockets to the west. I've had success getting them online very early. I like to keep contact with enemy units for fatigue, etc. as well, but I'd have repositioned to force rail repair with the doomed units in the pocket, not talking about the northern Daugava region.

[tyronec]

If you shatter the forts on T1 then often half the guys escape, plus the kills go into the wounded pool. So it is better to pocket if you can manage it.

I don't know what Xhoel is doing with his FBD, but I would send it up the double line to Pskov. The single rail line through Riga and on North can be repaired in time by SUs, and there are several routes to Riga any of which will do. Plus you get naval supply into the ports. So it is just not important in RtL. In the Campaign yes, Axis want to link up the coast but again any route will do.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: tyronec


IMO it is good play by Axis to pocket units on T1 rather than rout/shatter all the ones on the border.

Doesn't look like the pocketing worked out very well turn 1. Yes, there are some benefits of not route/shatter units on the border. I use it myself but this scenerio is about speed & depth. By routing those to either routeable spots on the map you can better control the Soviets on the map. As for shatter they are out of the way. Another benefit is the German units are deeper into mother Russia rather then sitting at the border waiting to make the Soviet unit surrender by waiting yet another turn. If this was taken care of on turn 1 with getting them in the correct place the Germans would have been much further along than playing "cleanup" turn 2 and watching the Soviet solidify. IMO it is a bad move and could come back to haunt the Germans.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: tyronec

If you shatter the forts on T1 then often half the guys escape, plus the kills go into the wounded pool. So it is better to pocket if you can manage it.

I don't know what Xhoel is doing with his FBD, but I would send it up the double line to Pskov. The single rail line through Riga and on North can be repaired in time by SUs, and there are several routes to Riga any of which will do. Plus you get naval supply into the ports. So it is just not important in RtL. In the Campaign yes, Axis want to link up the coast but again any route will do.

* Procrastination at the front worrying about a few Soviet guys (even 1/2 of them) escaping a fort when attacked when the German infantry can be deeper into Russia is not a good trade off. Put them in their place & get moving forward as the Germans


* Neither is having leaky pockets for the Germans. Take less hexes and make sure the pockets don't leak.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: Seminole

Seminole is correct in this picture. The best play is putting Soviet units on the rail to cause a rail break just to be on the safe side even if the FBD is not coming this way. Does it matter? Probably not but any unit attacked on the baltic rail line will break the rail 100% instead of having a possible repair at 70%. I brought this up in my AAR(or someone elses, don't remember now) previously and is a very good point.

[Hardradi]

ORIGINAL: Seminole

Surprised he didn’t leave his pocketed units on rail line to deny the 70% chance of free conversion by compelling combat.

Yes, the central line appeared ripe for it and possibly the coastal and the right double track as well. The FBD must have moved towards Kaunus but would have had to enter enemy ZOC (assuming Axis units were posted along the track) slowing it down.

Not clearing the border regions around and up all the three main rails routes limits your options for quick and effective rail repair particularly if you want to get to Riga ASAP.

[tyronec]

Doesn't look like the pocketing worked out very well turn 1. Yes, there are some benefits of not route/shatter units on the border. I use it myself but this scenerio is about speed & depth. By routing those to either routeable spots on the map you can better control the Soviets on the map. As for shatter they are out of the way. Another benefit is the German units are deeper into mother Russia rather then sitting at the border waiting to make the Soviet unit surrender by waiting yet another turn. If this was taken care of on turn 1 with getting them in the correct place the Germans would have been much further along than playing "cleanup" turn 2 and watching the Soviet solidify. IMO it is a bad move and could come back to haunt the Germans.

I disagree with this. Xhoel had a slip up which allowed me to break the pocket on T1, that doesn't mean it was the wrong strategy - what it means is he made a mistake with screening the pocket (which is all too easy, it has happened to me more than once). The answer is to be very careful with your pockets, in particular on T1. Which almost certainly means you need to have a hot seat practise run through and check it out from the Soviet side.
This is the Axis T1 from my Campaign game with Dodo, it could have been better but it is certainly possible to screen the pockets, advance most of the infantry full distance and cover the important rail hexes.

[tyronec]

Yes, the central line appeared ripe for it and possibly the coastal and the right double track as well. The FBD must have moved towards Kaunus but would have had to enter enemy ZOC (assuming Axis units were posted along the track) slowing it down.

Not clearing the border regions around and up all the three main rails routes limits your options for quick and effective rail repair particularly if you want to get to Riga ASAP.

Again I disagree. Getting rail repair to Riga is not important, Axis can get lots of supplies there by sea. I don't know what Xhoel's rail plan is but if it were me I would be using SUs to repair up the coast (the Western black line) and the FBD for the double line to Pskov. Actually you don't even need to connect to Riga and it may be better just to repair North from the ports, but it depends on what rail damage there is. If that is what he is doing then I don't see much to criticize in either of our play.

[tyronec]

Axis cross the river and threaten to make a big pocket to the East of Pskov. Just what I didn't want, was not expecting them to get so far this turn. Do a couple of counter attacks and get lucky to be able to open up the throat of the pocket enough to get most of the units out. Looking somewhat scary for next turn.

In retrospect I think the Soviets are probably not strong enough to hold the river for T3 and I should have pulled back further last turn.

[tyronec]

Axis trash some more units, just 5 divisions pocketed which is not too bad, it could have been worse.
Am guessing that he will push North on the Eastern route (red arrow) rather than the Western one (blue arrow), but it is a total guess and if I have got it wrong he could make rapid progress towards Lenningrad next turn.

Overall this game is not going too well !

[tyronec]

No new pockets and Axis just push forwards one hex, so satisfactory enough.
My defences seem very weak, it feels like Axis are stronger than last time I played this but will see how the next few moves go.

[tyronec]

Soviets take another trashing this turn, Axis winning all 12 of their attacks. Looks like they are taking the coastal route to Lenningrad so we load that with the best troops.
No pockets but I have to abandon a division to preserve some sort of front line.