Well, so much for Ricky's blizzard bug fixTom1939 wrote:1941. december 14.
Blizzard
Axis losses are huge.
Losses this week:
Axis/Soviet
8379/1068
815/532
4023/136
366/278
:rolleyes:Great patriotic war (possum one)
Well I still think the blizzard fix works. I'm shatering korpses which were already retreating last turn, and probably had low readines. And Rick did attack the turn before the blizzards, which hurts him I think. The red army is so strong that it has the cpability to beat german infantry even in snow conditions, so blizzard will be horrible for the germans after the first breakthrough.
But! I have a game against Mr. Shane Burtfam from Australia. He is with the evil germans. He beat me up during the summer (at least twice the losses I have here) so he could stop my attacks during the blizzards with high readines infantry korpses, as he already prepared defense and supply 4-6 weeks before blizzards. He stopped me without much problem, only a few retreats and one shatter. He is low on infantry but should be fine to finish me off in the summer.
So if the germans weaken the red army enough, and have strong defenders high readines they should be fine. Oherways they perish:) It is fine so I think.
But! I have a game against Mr. Shane Burtfam from Australia. He is with the evil germans. He beat me up during the summer (at least twice the losses I have here) so he could stop my attacks during the blizzards with high readines infantry korpses, as he already prepared defense and supply 4-6 weeks before blizzards. He stopped me without much problem, only a few retreats and one shatter. He is low on infantry but should be fine to finish me off in the summer.
So if the germans weaken the red army enough, and have strong defenders high readines they should be fine. Oherways they perish:) It is fine so I think.
Good reading!
Hey all....just got back from a short stint overseas, and I really missed playing WIR. "Possum" is new to me; however, it seems like it makes the game as fun as ever. Anyway, I love reading this thread! The few screen shots make the flow, well, "cool" to read. Love it, and keep up the great work!
Sometimes common sense isn't all that common!
Although many of our soldaten are retreating in great haste, the Wehrmacht, with Luftwaffe support in the heavy blowing snow, showed it still has teeth. The Luftwaffe pounded an enemy army that had pursued us outside of its CAP, and then a weak force clawed its way across the icy steppe and attacked the enemy, destroying a numerically superior force. But otherwise, things do not look good as a major retreat has been ordered.
Axis/Soviet
17/1083 Squads
0/418 AFVs
2/508 Guns
19/0 Planes
For K62, I took a look back a few turns ago at my illustious opponent's forces and he had units massed with CVs up to 200 or so. And as Tamas said, most of the damage was done to retreating forces, but not all of it. And he has very strong air forces, which I assume have done their part in weakening my defenders enough to be shattered. On the other hand, I don't think my bombardment attacks played much of a role in the disaster, but maybe they did. Everybody was dug in to 3 or 4 anyway. What it really comes down to is he is extremely strong from his good play/my bad play, especially the air forces which are probably in the range of 70-90 experience, I would guess (I didn't peak at them, just the ground forces of a few turns ago).
Axis/Soviet
17/1083 Squads
0/418 AFVs
2/508 Guns
19/0 Planes
For K62, I took a look back a few turns ago at my illustious opponent's forces and he had units massed with CVs up to 200 or so. And as Tamas said, most of the damage was done to retreating forces, but not all of it. And he has very strong air forces, which I assume have done their part in weakening my defenders enough to be shattered. On the other hand, I don't think my bombardment attacks played much of a role in the disaster, but maybe they did. Everybody was dug in to 3 or 4 anyway. What it really comes down to is he is extremely strong from his good play/my bad play, especially the air forces which are probably in the range of 70-90 experience, I would guess (I didn't peak at them, just the ground forces of a few turns ago).
Rick Bancroft
Semper Fi
Semper Fi
1941. december 21.
Blizzard
Red Air Force still has some problems with giving air support... One army lost, one air commander executed, life goes on:)
Our forces clashed against the second german line of defense which put up strong resistance but were broken through at several places. Next week we hope to massacre this line as well. Stalin has put a new goal for the red army until end of february: Odessa, Zhitomir,Minsk, and Lenningrad have to be recaptured! It will be hard as in the noth the enemy repulses all attacks strongly. Stalin gets angrier and angrier...
Losses this week:
Axis/Soviet
2288/1159
298/423
1469/126
40/41
Stavka
p.s: Rick is right, I have at least 8 monster armies (tank and shock) which are close to or over 200 cv rested. In the central area there is 2 shock armies, which did not even attack, as they play catch up. This monsters were only stopped once (!) so far this winter if I remember right. I have a huge fighter force with about 40% decent fighters (yak, lagg, mig) and quite good experience. They can fight the germans with 2:1 or 3:1 loss ratio for the germans. Rick shows little intrest to attrition air battles sadly:( Decisive times will come I think.
Blizzard
Red Air Force still has some problems with giving air support... One army lost, one air commander executed, life goes on:)
Our forces clashed against the second german line of defense which put up strong resistance but were broken through at several places. Next week we hope to massacre this line as well. Stalin has put a new goal for the red army until end of february: Odessa, Zhitomir,Minsk, and Lenningrad have to be recaptured! It will be hard as in the noth the enemy repulses all attacks strongly. Stalin gets angrier and angrier...
Losses this week:
Axis/Soviet
2288/1159
298/423
1469/126
40/41
Stavka
p.s: Rick is right, I have at least 8 monster armies (tank and shock) which are close to or over 200 cv rested. In the central area there is 2 shock armies, which did not even attack, as they play catch up. This monsters were only stopped once (!) so far this winter if I remember right. I have a huge fighter force with about 40% decent fighters (yak, lagg, mig) and quite good experience. They can fight the germans with 2:1 or 3:1 loss ratio for the germans. Rick shows little intrest to attrition air battles sadly:( Decisive times will come I think.
Good luck Rick - I really hope there's something you can still do after losing 15000 squads and 1500 tanks in just 3 turns of blizzard... If both of you say that the blizzard fix is OK I guess I'll have to believe it, although I'm still somewhat skeptical. I've never seen the Germans recover after such heavy losses (even Stalingrad was only 2000 squads or so 
) - and Rick says he was actually entrenched and well-supplied
) - and Rick says he was actually entrenched and well-supplied "Power always thinks it has a great soul and vast views beyond the comprehension of the weak" - John Adams
Time to make some numbers alive. In 41 german (and russian) full divisions have 243 squads and a german division had around 16.000+ men in it in full strengh. It makes some 70 men in squad (which is a large platoon or small company). Russians had some 14.000+ men in their division when the war broke up which makes some 60 men in squad.
German losses were more or less 40.000 men dead per month on eastern front which makes some 150 squads per week or turn. In my games german losses are usually some 200 - 500 squads per turn with an occasional 1000+ squads as one infantry korps surrenders.
Even in Stalingrad losses were only 4.000 squads and it was considered as a major disaster. 15.000 squads is a million men which is about one eight of the wehrmacht in 41-42.
Source for german losses: http://www.feldgrau.com/stats.html If somebody knows a good site with russian losses I'd like to know.
Vero
German losses were more or less 40.000 men dead per month on eastern front which makes some 150 squads per week or turn. In my games german losses are usually some 200 - 500 squads per turn with an occasional 1000+ squads as one infantry korps surrenders.
Even in Stalingrad losses were only 4.000 squads and it was considered as a major disaster. 15.000 squads is a million men which is about one eight of the wehrmacht in 41-42.
Source for german losses: http://www.feldgrau.com/stats.html If somebody knows a good site with russian losses I'd like to know.
Vero
Ei kannattais.
Ehheheh, omaperäinen nimi. 
Well, first of all the 50 men / squad in the game is an abstraction, and as such cannot be and is not even meant to be totally accurate... Secondly, we can presume that 'casualties' also includes the amount of the more or less wounded and paralysed, which is of course higher than the pure death count. For example, consider the following quote (from the Third Reich Factbook):
Well, first of all the 50 men / squad in the game is an abstraction, and as such cannot be and is not even meant to be totally accurate... Secondly, we can presume that 'casualties' also includes the amount of the more or less wounded and paralysed, which is of course higher than the pure death count. For example, consider the following quote (from the Third Reich Factbook):
The half a million figure clearly includes those who are too badly injured to fight(perhaps never again). Clearly, there is more to casualties than just the death count.The Wehrmacht had lost over half a million men by the end of September, about 14% of their total strength, and lacked 200,000 replacements. Training and replacement capacity was no larger than it had been in September 1939.
Yes, I think the blizzard fix is OK. But I do not think Rick will recover from this winter. I have broken through, and he doesn't have a continous line and many german korpses are on the retreat. That means that he should be nowhere close to the needed readiness of 80-90. In 3.3 blizzard germans with high readiness fight nearly like in snow condition, but are doomed with low readiness. I think Rick must flee with full speed to live another day, which I think he will behind secondary defensive positions.K62 wrote:Good luck Rick - I really hope there's something you can still do after losing 15000 squads and 1500 tanks in just 3 turns of blizzard... If both of you say that the blizzard fix is OK I guess I'll have to believe it, although I'm still somewhat skeptical. I've never seen the Germans recover after such heavy losses (even Stalingrad was only 2000 squads or so
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DanishPosh
- Posts: 26
- Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2003 5:49 pm
- Location: Denmark
Are you guys saying that the Russians are still too strong in the Blizzard?
To my experience, the Germans can survive all winter if they are well dug in and even more importantly have beaten the Russian army to a pulp during the summer of 41.
But to go on and actually winning as the Germans, you most certainly need to capture Moscow before the winter sets in in 41. If you don't you can only force a draw at the most.
You can totally ignore both Leningrad and Kiev as long as you get Moscow. If Moscow is still in German hands when the snow melts in 42, they are very close to winning.
So take Moscow and hold it = winning.
Giving up Moscow = losing or draw.
In this particular game (although the screenshots dont seem to be working) the Germans havent done enough to make it through the winter. They have to encircle and eliminate far more Russian armies and stop the advance in time to dig in fully. Keep a continuous line behind a river with Armor in reserve. Use the Luftwaffe extensively throughout 41 to limit the Russian air.
RickyB has done neither of this.
If he dont give up soon, I expect to see the Russian gaining much land this winter and the Germans being no threat in the summer of 42. By the winter 42/43 the Russians are in Berlin
To my experience, the Germans can survive all winter if they are well dug in and even more importantly have beaten the Russian army to a pulp during the summer of 41.
But to go on and actually winning as the Germans, you most certainly need to capture Moscow before the winter sets in in 41. If you don't you can only force a draw at the most.
You can totally ignore both Leningrad and Kiev as long as you get Moscow. If Moscow is still in German hands when the snow melts in 42, they are very close to winning.
So take Moscow and hold it = winning.
Giving up Moscow = losing or draw.
In this particular game (although the screenshots dont seem to be working) the Germans havent done enough to make it through the winter. They have to encircle and eliminate far more Russian armies and stop the advance in time to dig in fully. Keep a continuous line behind a river with Armor in reserve. Use the Luftwaffe extensively throughout 41 to limit the Russian air.
RickyB has done neither of this.
If he dont give up soon, I expect to see the Russian gaining much land this winter and the Germans being no threat in the summer of 42. By the winter 42/43 the Russians are in Berlin
THE POSH
1941. december 28.
Blizzard
The german retreat has become a running contest this week. Some germans were caught and destroyed. The german's garrisoned Zhitomir with strong troops and our first attack was repulsed. In the North the finn's fight very well sadly. But in the centre Minsk seems to be within reach in few weeks.
Losses this week:
Axis/Soviet
2403/873
119/211
911/73
641/294
Stavka
Blizzard
The german retreat has become a running contest this week. Some germans were caught and destroyed. The german's garrisoned Zhitomir with strong troops and our first attack was repulsed. In the North the finn's fight very well sadly. But in the centre Minsk seems to be within reach in few weeks.
Losses this week:
Axis/Soviet
2403/873
119/211
911/73
641/294
Stavka
1942. january 4.
Blizzard
We continued to run after the germans. 2 tank armies went after Minsk, which are only 2 hexes away now. A panzer korps tried to stop them but it was first forced to retreat, then shattered. A strong german panzer korps was forced to retreat in the north but sadly it did not shatter. The "fierce devil" finns were not touched this time as we try to encircle them first, so we went for the poor german units in the area. The german high command tries to hold Lenningrad but one of our tank armies is only 2 hexes away from Pskov so we might capture some germans:) In the south there were no german resistance as Zhitomir has fallen and Odessa is slowly in striking distance.
Losses this week:
Axis/Soviet
759/125
343/47
581/10
0/15
Stavka
Blizzard
We continued to run after the germans. 2 tank armies went after Minsk, which are only 2 hexes away now. A panzer korps tried to stop them but it was first forced to retreat, then shattered. A strong german panzer korps was forced to retreat in the north but sadly it did not shatter. The "fierce devil" finns were not touched this time as we try to encircle them first, so we went for the poor german units in the area. The german high command tries to hold Lenningrad but one of our tank armies is only 2 hexes away from Pskov so we might capture some germans:) In the south there were no german resistance as Zhitomir has fallen and Odessa is slowly in striking distance.
Losses this week:
Axis/Soviet
759/125
343/47
581/10
0/15
Stavka
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DanishPosh
- Posts: 26
- Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2003 5:49 pm
- Location: Denmark
The fast advance will be much slower now as I'm nearly out of supply. But I think I can make it to the 41 borders in the south and central areas hopefully before blizzard ends. Getting back Lenningrad from the finns or capturing Ploesti would be a real bonus. I think the only hope for germany is a draw now. I don't think the red army could be defeated if I don't make silly mistakes.
42. january 11.
Blizzard
The mighty red army starves for supply and it slowed down considerably this week. We could not catch the running germans this time. Minsk and Pskov has fallen without a fight. The last strong german defence line in the north has begun a fast retreat as well after its southern flank was in grave danger. Soviet troops are ready to besiege Lenningrad next week. In the far north our troops failed to push back the finns.
Losses this week:
Axis/Soviet
81/99
0/56
53/20
79/14
Stavka
p.s: I believe the deceisive battles will come this summer somwhere between Minsk and Warsaw. It will deceide between fast red victory or a long bloody war with a possible draw. The german infantry must be crippled with nearly 30 k squads lost from the start, but "only" some 4200 panzers lost makes me cautious about fast total victory.
Blizzard
The mighty red army starves for supply and it slowed down considerably this week. We could not catch the running germans this time. Minsk and Pskov has fallen without a fight. The last strong german defence line in the north has begun a fast retreat as well after its southern flank was in grave danger. Soviet troops are ready to besiege Lenningrad next week. In the far north our troops failed to push back the finns.
Losses this week:
Axis/Soviet
81/99
0/56
53/20
79/14
Stavka
p.s: I believe the deceisive battles will come this summer somwhere between Minsk and Warsaw. It will deceide between fast red victory or a long bloody war with a possible draw. The german infantry must be crippled with nearly 30 k squads lost from the start, but "only" some 4200 panzers lost makes me cautious about fast total victory.
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JagdFlanker
- Posts: 744
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 9:18 pm
- Location: Miramichi, Canada
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Forward_March
- Posts: 160
- Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2003 5:40 am