Hell on Earth (Axis) HLYA vs (Soviet) JubJub

[DeletedUser1769703214]

bomb run 5 Turn 9

Here is another done by the Soviets. I am getting nickeled and dimed the whole time I move forward. I have supply constraints so my Fighters and bombers aren't going to be there and if they are it is random in 1941 because of the supply. Now once the Soviets finally stand and fight and I have supply that is a totally different story. But in the weakened states the loses will be exacerbated from supply, fatigue, and a slew of other factors.

[Sammy5IsAlive]

How come your AA is not firing?

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive

How come your AA is not firing?

No AA in an infantry division The bombers were at 9,000 ft for the bombing btw. That is why I kind of laugh when people attack Armor with lots of AA(when people put it there). Attack the Infantry division like I said in my WITE1 Soviet AAR's Just FYI the hex was attacked because there was an Armor regiment in this hex. That has been Jubjub's modus operandi for his level bombers.

Granted I can put some AA in there with SU's. But until I get to my final destination that isn't going to happen. (SU's take up supply). The more supply I get to my units, instead of my SU's, the better.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

OrIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertedFox


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertedFox


quote:

ORIGINAL: vvs007

But aviation, unfortunately, needs to be seriously rebuilt.


+1.



I guess this conversation if going to go how great the Soviets are in the Air and how the 109's are too invincible in the game. I hope not but I am sure it will go that way



Wrong in that case for me HL.

I feel that direct air support in ground combat could be beefed up a bit.

I am not sure how effective interdiction actually is in the game, but the German airforce gave the Soviets deploying for the attack at Brody a big workover.




Jubjub is doing pretty good Ground attacks to my 1941 Germans. So I hope it isn't beefed up anymore since I am losing 150-300 men per bombing run and he is making up to 3 runs on a hex before attacking. So lord I hope not from that perspective. I will post some of his bombings in my AAR when I get back from grabbing a sandwich for lunch.

I know I don't use the German airforce much in 41 because I want the supply for ground forces. Thus I have not done much Ground Attacking. But interdiction in the early stages of beta was crazy that I saw. Now it might be a bit low but I am still on the fence on interdiction.

I copied this over from another AAR to show the Ground Attacks that Jubjub has been doing with good efficiency. Why do you think I made that comment in post #542 of this AAR? Here are some of the bombing runs that Jubjub did and please realize that the MP's after these bombings & attack had only 8MP's avail.

This was turn 9 at the beginning of the turn in one hex.

Bomb run 1 of 3 for that hex.

To me the Ground Attack bombing seems to be just fine. Unless you are meaning that less planes do more damage? Most people won't run Ground Support during the opposing turn since it is open to "gaming" the system. Now that does need attention. I feel that Ground Support should be allocated, I know how much people wanted to hear that more micro management is needed, just like Ground Attack. That way gaming the system isn't as possible.

[Sammy5IsAlive]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive

How come your AA is not firing?

No AA in an infantry division The bombers were at 9,000 ft for the bombing btw. That is why I kind of laugh when people attack Armor with lots of AA(when people put it there). Attack the Infantry division like I said in my WITE1 Soviet AAR's Just FYI the hex was attacked because there was an Armor regiment in this hex. That has been Jubjub's modus operandi for his level bombers.

Granted I can put some AA in there with SU's. But until I get to my final destination that isn't going to happen. (SU's take up supply. The more supply I get to my units, instead of my SU's, the better.

Oh that makes sense then - it is one of those decisions where you have do work out where the balance lies I guess. Have you gone as far as to take the AA out of the Corps HQs also? I can't remember the rules for HQs committing AA to protect the units under them.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive

How come your AA is not firing?

No AA in an infantry division The bombers were at 9,000 ft for the bombing btw. That is why I kind of laugh when people attack Armor with lots of AA(when people put it there). Attack the Infantry division like I said in my WITE1 Soviet AAR's Just FYI the hex was attacked because there was an Armor regiment in this hex. That has been Jubjub's modus operandi for his level bombers.

Granted I can put some AA in there with SU's. But until I get to my final destination that isn't going to happen. (SU's take up supply. The more supply I get to my units, instead of my SU's, the better.

Oh that makes sense then - it is one of those decisions where you have do work out where the balance lies I guess. Have you gone as far as to take the AA out of the Corps HQs also? I can't remember the rules for HQs committing AA to protect the units under them.

Yes, I have done this and used it up north in the dense forest. This is pretty much the same thing I showed in my AAR in WITE1 a few years back which translate very well here in WITE2. I will actually use 5 Med/heavy AA in a HQ spaced every so many hexes for good effect. I can show you what I do if you like or you can find my old post from WITE1 AAR which may be a bit hard. Guess I will post when I get the turn back

[jubjub]

To me the Ground Attack bombing seems to be just fine. Unless you are meaning that less planes do more damage? Most people won't run Ground Support during the opposing turn since it is open to "gaming" the system. Now that does need attention. I feel that Ground Support should be allocated, I know how much people wanted to hear that more micro management is needed, just like Ground Attack. That way gaming the system isn't as possible.

I know if I leave GS on somewhere, the entire fleet can be wiped out. One of my favored tactics as soviets is to figure out where the bombers outrange the 109's and hit as many units in that area as possible lol. If you have fighter cover everywhere, it's pretty safe to leave it on as the axis though.

All they need is to add a 'minimum fighter' requirement option, just like every other air directive has. They could also just add a 'fly with no escort' button.

[Beethoven1]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

No AA in an infantry division The bombers were at 9,000 ft for the bombing btw. That is why I kind of laugh when people attack Armor with lots of AA(when people put it there). Attack the Infantry division like I said in my WITE1 Soviet AAR's Just FYI the hex was attacked because there was an Armor regiment in this hex. That has been Jubjub's modus operandi for his level bombers.

Granted I can put some AA in there with SU's. But until I get to my final destination that isn't going to happen. (SU's take up supply. The more supply I get to my units, instead of my SU's, the better.

From that perspective, you should be happy that his bombing kills your men. If you have fewer men, your men will consume less supply each turn. So then there will be more supply remaining for the ones who are left. [;)]

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: jubjub

To me the Ground Attack bombing seems to be just fine. Unless you are meaning that less planes do more damage? Most people won't run Ground Support during the opposing turn since it is open to "gaming" the system. Now that does need attention. I feel that Ground Support should be allocated, I know how much people wanted to hear that more micro management is needed, just like Ground Attack. That way gaming the system isn't as possible.

I know if I leave GS on somewhere, the entire fleet can be wiped out. One of my favored tactics as soviets is to figure out where the bombers outrange the 109's and hit as many units in that area as possible lol. If you have fighter cover everywhere, it's pretty safe to leave it on as the axis though.

All they need is to add a 'minimum fighter' requirement option, just like every other air directive has. They could also just add a 'fly with no escort' button.

Ya, Ground Support is pandora's box in your opponents turn. You just don't want to turn the wench on ;-P When you do the next time you look at your loses in a turn you will lose your bottom jaw.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: Beethoven1

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

No AA in an infantry division The bombers were at 9,000 ft for the bombing btw. That is why I kind of laugh when people attack Armor with lots of AA(when people put it there). Attack the Infantry division like I said in my WITE1 Soviet AAR's Just FYI the hex was attacked because there was an Armor regiment in this hex. That has been Jubjub's modus operandi for his level bombers.

Granted I can put some AA in there with SU's. But until I get to my final destination that isn't going to happen. (SU's take up supply. The more supply I get to my units, instead of my SU's, the better.

From that perspective, you should be happy that his bombing kills your men. If you have fewer men, your men will consume less supply each turn. So then there will be more supply remaining for the ones who are left. [;)]

Yup, that is 100% positive way of thinking of it.

[DesertedFox]

Thx for showing that HL.

My main thoughts though were with actual GS in helping actual ground attacks.

However, I am trying out some GA-interdictions in my current game so this is all good info.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: DesertedFox

Thx for showing that HL.

My main thoughts though were with actual GS in helping actual ground attacks.

However, I am trying out some GA-interdictions in my current game so this is all good info.

You are welcome! I always try to help out

Ya, Ground Support during your turn should be fine from my observation so far when I have used it. It is Ground support during opponents turn that makes you pull your hair out

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: jubjub

To me the Ground Attack bombing seems to be just fine. Unless you are meaning that less planes do more damage? Most people won't run Ground Support during the opposing turn since it is open to "gaming" the system. Now that does need attention. I feel that Ground Support should be allocated, I know how much people wanted to hear that more micro management is needed, just like Ground Attack. That way gaming the system isn't as possible.

I know if I leave GS on somewhere, the entire fleet can be wiped out. One of my favored tactics as soviets is to figure out where the bombers outrange the 109's and hit as many units in that area as possible lol. If you have fighter cover everywhere, it's pretty safe to leave it on as the axis though.

All they need is to add a 'minimum fighter' requirement option, just like every other air directive has. They could also just add a 'fly with no escort' button.

To be very frank, I would love for a range option for planes on how far you want to fly. Be it 2 hexes, 20 hexes, or 5 hexes you set the range. This was a BEAUTIFUL addition to WITE1 done by Morvael. I am totally surprised this has not made its way here to WITE2 and would gladly pay real money for implementation here. Plus being able to color individual units That would make my PeePee hard.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

Turn 9 End of turn

Here is another picture to ponder for the Germans from my turn 9.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

Turn 9 End of turn

Here is another picture to ponder for the Germans from my turn 9.

Not pretty, is it?

Please feel free to give your input to above question. Thank you in advance.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

I also want to emphasis this chart which some may be forgetting to use. Jubjub has not forgotten to use this in our game. As I said in earlier AAR's Soviets should be attacking and this is a good example to use for the Soviets. Thus many Soviet Cav have been lost but are having an effect.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

I also want to emphasis this chart which some may be forgetting to use. Jubjub has not forgotten to use this in our game. As I said in earlier AAR's Soviets should be attacking and this is a good example to use for the Soviets. Thus many Soviet Cav has lost but are having an effect.

I still don't use spreadsheets but I have been reading the manual though ;-P If I ever start using spreadsheets I guess it will finally make me a better player.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

Turn 9

Another item that I found interesting was the Admin for air underlined with yellow here. Want those great admin German leaders for you air for sure.

[DeletedUser1769703214]

Turn 9

From above this leads into the Air bombing which I believe have effected people that they may not be aware of it. Please read and enjoy if you have not seen this. (I don't play with Auto)

Just some items I thought were interesting enough to post here and maybe someone will benefit from me posting. Please make sure you understand the last sentence in the snipit.

[tyronec]

Can see that jubjub has picked up on the tactic of doing GA against Axis units. There is no need for a fighter escort for these attacks as they are not going to be intercepted. If the fighters are FB-B then by all means use them as extra bombers. To make best use of GA the Soviets should convert all their fighters to FB-B on T1 as there is almost no value to using fighters during '41.

What I don't see is the follow up attack. Yes, you can do some attrition this way but the main value in battering an Axis unit is that you can follow up with a ground attack when it has been weakened.

Yes, I have done this and used it up north in the dense forest. This is pretty much the same thing I showed in my AAR in WITE1 a few years back which translate very well here in WITE2. I will actually use 5 Med/heavy AA in a HQ spaced every so many hexes for good effect. I can show you what I do if you like or you can find my old post from WITE1 AAR which may be a bit hard. Guess I will post when I get the turn back

I don't see much value in this for WITE2. SUs are not distributed against air attacks, so if a unit is bombed and it's HQ has an AA SU then unless it is in the same hex the AA SU will not be used. You can assign AA SUs to HQs and use them to protect specific hexes or fly over paths but the Soviets can check the AA intensity before they set up their GA attacks and play to avoid them.
Yes, occasionally there is a critical hex, say defending a pocket, where it is worthwhile using an HQ to build up the the AA defense.