Basic rules-questions

[JacquesDeLalaing]

I've just started delving into WEGO Stalingrad and so far it looks very promising. However there are a few things which seem vitally important to know in a wego game, yet are not explained well / at all in the manual. Maybe more experienced users can help me out?

1) MOVEMENT BASICS
It is not clear how movement works. I know the maximum reach of units is determined by move points (which is affected by readiness and an active Move+ Supply Mode and Road Movement Mode). But I don't know if a unit with greater MP moves faster or just farther than a unit with fewer MP? When (at what ticks) does movement happen during a turn? Also, does a movement into difficult terrain take more "ticks" than one into open terrain? Coordination (using the wait order) is nigh impossible if the game doesn't explain these things...If two units try to move to the same, adjacent hex, which one goes first?

2) READINESS LOSS FOR MOVEMENT
It seems to me that readiness is only updated at the end of movement, not "live" during movement. Is that correct?

3) RECON
It seems to me that all hexes on which you - AT ANY POINT DURING TURN RESOLUTION - have intel on are considered to be reconed throughout the whole turn?

Example:
At tick 1, you have no intel on hex A. You only get within intel range at tick 8.
And yet you are shown all enemy movements on hex A (even those that happen at ticks 1-7, before you actually got intel on the hex).

Is that correct? So you can't rely rely on "moving away" from the opponent in order to stay hidden. You need to screen.

[governato]

I've just started delving into WEGO Stalingrad and so far it looks very promising. However there are a few things which seem vitally important to know in a wego game, yet are not explained well / at all in the manual. Maybe more experienced users can help me out?

1) MOVEMENT BASICS
It is not clear how movement works. I know the maximum reach of units is determined by move points (which is affected by readiness and an active Move+ Supply Mode and Road Movement Mode). But I don't know if a unit with greater MP moves faster or just farther than a unit with fewer MP? When (at what ticks) does movement happen during a turn? Also, does a movement into difficult terrain take more "ticks" than one into open terrain? Coordination (using the wait order) is nigh impossible if the game doesn't explain these things...If two units try to move to the same, adjacent hex, which one goes first?

2) READINESS LOSS FOR MOVEMENT
It seems to me that readiness is only updated at the end of movement, not "live" during movement. Is that correct?

3) RECON
It seems to me that all hexes on which you - AT ANY POINT DURING TURN RESOLUTION - have intel on are considered to be reconed throughout the whole turn?

Example:
At tick 1, you have no intel on hex A. You only get within intel range at tick 8.
And yet you are shown all enemy movements on hex A (even those that happen at ticks 1-7, before you actually got intel on the hex).

Is that correct? So you can't rely rely on "moving away" from the opponent in order to stay hidden. You need to screen.

+1! I always wondered if the basic "tick" (the shortest event in a turn) is based on time (so a fraction of a turn, then units with more MPs 'd move faster) , or rather a fraction of the highest amount of MPs any unit has on the map (then units with more MPs 'd move further). I also think I can set up a test .

[gwgardner]

concerning movement pulses here's one simple test result:

basic supply

about all I can say about this test is that the unit with more MPs moved on an earlier pulse than the others, and that a lot more testing with differeing parameters will be needed to really understand movement

[Saint Ruth]

1) MOVEMENT BASICS

Yes, units with more move points move faster.
The longest moving unit is the number of movement "ticks". So if a unit moves 20 hexes, then all moves occur over 20 "ticks", so that unit will move every move "tick", a unit moving 10 hexes will move every second "tick" and a unit moving 2 hexes will move every 10th turn.
Of course, units' moves may be delayed as well due to C&C or stacking or whatever.

And no, terrain does not affect that (though it means the unit has less move points, so does move "slower").

Co-ordination of moving units was very difficult (and still is).

2) READINESS LOSS FOR MOVEMENT
Yes, at turn end

3) RECON
Every hex you "see" during the turn is shown at the end of the turn. So if you have intel of a hex anytime during the turn, you have intel on that hex for the duration of the turn

If you move out of the enemy's intel range, you will stay hidden.

[JacquesDeLalaing]

Thanks a lot for your answers!

MOVEMENT [EDIT: obsolete/wrong, see further answer by Saint Ruth down below, April 20]
Thank you. Yes, this is indeed what can be observed ingame. E.g. you can see that if there is a turn in which no road movement takes place, all units move at every tick* (regardless of the terrain cost of the hex they're entering). If you add road movement to the mix, however, only the road-moving units move every tick, while the non-road-moving units move roughly every second tick. It's an intriguing system.

If I understand correctly, then it is a good idea to set very long, far movement orders if you want to catch an adjacent enemy that tries to slip away? And vice versa, if you want to get away, you should also plan very "far" movements? While that may seem a bit odd (increase your speed by setting longer movement orders), I guess it comes down to: If you want to slip away and avoid battle against fast enemy units, you need to give up a lot of ground.

However, there is some room for weird situations. If two players want to be the first to the same adjacent hex, then they better set very long "defend move" movement orders through the target hex and the enemy unit (hoping for their units to stop and not continue the crazy movement order, being stopped by the enemy unit).


RECON

This is what I observed ingame. But the system strikes me as a bit odd because it doesn't recognise the proper sequence of events in time. Basically, units can see movements that happened x hours ago, where x is the length of a full turn (3+ hours!). I get it it's an abstraction but still its a bid odd.

* Except for the first and last 3-4 ticks, which are reserved for other stuff (set piece attacks, supply update, etc.).

[JacquesDeLalaing]

INTELLIGENCE STRENGTH AND RECON LEVELS

In constrast to some conclusions I drew from reading the manual, this is my impression how recon/intel strength works. Any remarks/corrections/additions are highly appreciated. Note that I differentiate between intelligence strength (applied to hexes) and recon levels (applied to units).

1) The max. intel strength of a unit applies in the hex of the unit itself. The strength is then projected from the unit, losing 1 strength point for each additional hex (to a minimum of 1). So, a unit with intel strength 4 and range 3 projects: 3-2-1. (NOT 4-3-2 as I would have assumed from reading the manual).

2) Intel strength of multiple units is combined, but the cap of 3 still applies (see point 3). [EDIT: Not so sure about that anymore. In some instances it doesn't seem to add up...]

3) Intel strength is capped at 3. Unfortunately, there is no way to display the exact intel strength of a hex. So you have to rely on the color code of the intel overlay (yellow = 1, light green = 2, slightly darker green = 3). A greater color contrast for levels 2 and 3 would be highly appreciated.

4a) Every time a unit enters a hex on which you have intel strength, the game checks whether the recon level on that particular unit can be improved. The recon level you get on the unit corresponds to your intel strength +/- the target unit's quality factor.

4b) Also, if combat occurs between units, your recon level on the participating enemy units usually goes up to at least level 4 (not quite sure how it works). Thus, in order to keep your opponent guessing, you might want to keep some of your units out of fight for some time (and screen them properly from enemy recce units).

5) Unless an enemy unit leaves your intel overlay/area completely, it stays spotted at the best recon level you had on it thus far. I.e. your recon level on a unit will never decrease unless you lose sight of it completely. (Not sure what happens if it re-enters your intel area).

INTEL & ARTY EFFECTIVENESS

It seems that it's the recon level that matters, not the intelligence level on the target hex?

Eg. I order a bombardment on a hex on which I have an intel strength of but 1. Two enemy units are in that hex. Since I have battled them earlier in the game and have not lost sight of them, my recon level on them is pretty good: 3 and 4. The game proceeds to determine the average recon level of the target units, which is 3.5. The manual mentions that this value is always rounded down. Thus my final recon level is 3, which results in a 25% malus on my artillery's attack value (manual p. 47).

EDIT: Then I again I've just suffered the 25% penalty when firing on two recon level 4 units. So perhaps it's the "current" hypothetical recon level after all? Take a look at the screenshot: I was firing my artillery on the german units (both on recon level 4) north of the town. While the game shows that hex in light green (intel strength 2) for some reason, my actual intel strength on that hex would have been 6 (capped at 3!) during that particular turn: 2 from my infantry brigade in town and 3 from the 3 tank units further north (they have a range of 2). Since both german units are regular, intel strength 3 gives me recon level 3, which means -25% for my artillery fire? So perhaps the game uses the CURRENT recon level of the target units which might differ from the "historical" recon level that is shown to the player (as a matter of convenience, so we don't have to take notes about enemy unit sightings?).

[JacquesDeLalaing]

I also wanted to ask about a situation that seemed rather weird to me (see screenshot).

I'm playing as the Soviets and have activated my intelligence overlay. For some reason, I have permanent intel strength around the three german stacks in the north. I suspect a bug, particularly as the intel strength breaks off suddenly (drops from 2 to 0)? It might have somehow been caused by a battle that took place a few turns ago precisely at the the center hex of this weird intel area (in the hex of the "middle" german stack)?

(I have not used any air recon missions and no movement took place in this turn . all soviet units were stationary)

[JacquesDeLalaing]

Another thing I experienced ingame but didn't expect: Shock capable units who attack across a "no shock shift" hex border (red signs) seem to lose their shock capability completely (thus reducing sides overall shock value). I expected them to simply have no shock value but still keep their shock-capability.

On the screenshot, note how the infantry brigade, despite being shock capable (with a shock value of 0) counts as non-shock capable when I let it attack across the river.

[governato]

as we are at it...when do Assault happen in the timeline?

[JacquesDeLalaing]

So, far my impression on the sequence of events during turn resolution is this:

1. Initial phase (first few ticks)
During this phase, planned artillery/naval/air bombardments take place, as well as set piece attacks (according to the manual the battles with the highest odds are resolved first). I'm not entirely sure if bombardments always happen before attacks but it seems to be the case?

2. Movement phase
During this phase, units with movement orders move and movement/meeting battles may happen. The speed at which units move has been described by Saint Ruth in the post above. The movement of each unit is spaced out evenly over the entire turn. So units with longer movement paths (faster units or units moving over roads, open terrain....) move faster. If you let a unit move but one hex, the movement will occur in the "middle" of the movement phase. If a unit is involved in any kind of battle, movement is canceled (except for the rare "overruns"). Of course there can also be unforeseen events that interfere with movement orders: order delay, increased enemy ZOC points, etc.

3. Final phase (last few ticks)
The game updates ZoCs and supply status, substracts readiness loss for movement, lets resting units recover readiness, etc.

[Saint Ruth]

Thanks a lot for your answers!

MOVEMENT
...
If I understand correctly, then it is a good idea to set very long, far movement orders if you want to catch an adjacent enemy that tries to slip away? And vice versa, if you want to get away, you should also plan very "far" movements? While that may seem a bit odd (increase your speed by setting longer movement orders), I guess it comes down to: If you want to slip away and avoid battle against fast enemy units, you need to give up a lot of ground.
...

I should have said, a units move points are spread over the entire turn EVEN IF THOSE POINTS ARE NOT USED.

E.g if you have 2 units with 20 move points:
- unit A moves 20 hexes
- unit B moves 10 hexes
then they will both move at the same time for the first 10 hexes, and by mid-turn unit B will have reached its destination and the first will continue moving the final 10 hexes.
So both units move at the same speed.

If you have two units, A with 20 move points and B with 10 move points, then the B will only move every second tick, so they will both arrive at their destination at the same "time". So A is faster than B.

So setting very long, far movement orders won't make any difference. A unit that moves all its move points will take the entire turn to reach its destination (regardless of whether that's 4 move points or 20) and a unit using half its move points will arrive at its destination mid-turn (regardless of whether that's 2 move points or 10).

RECON
This is what I observed ingame. But the system strikes me as a bit odd because it doesn't recognise the proper sequence of events in time. Basically, units can see movements that happened x hours ago, where x is the length of a full turn (3+ hours!). I get it it's an abstraction but still its a bid odd.

* Except for the first and last 3-4 ticks, which are reserved for other stuff (set piece attacks, supply update, etc.).

Ah yes, i see what you mean now. Will have a look!
Cheers,
Brian

[Saint Ruth]

as we are at it...when do Assault happen in the timeline?

All planned attacks/assault happen before movement

[Saint Ruth]

So, far my impression on the sequence of events during turn resolution is this:

1. Initial phase (first few ticks)
During this phase, planned artillery/naval/air bombardments take place, as well as set piece attacks (according to the manual the battles with the highest odds are resolved first). I'm not entirely sure if bombardments always happen before attacks but it seems to be the case?

2. Movement phase
During this phase, units with movement orders move and movement/meeting battles may happen. The speed at which units move has been described by Saint Ruth in the post above. The movement of each unit is spaced out evenly over the entire turn. So units with longer movement paths (faster units or units moving over roads, open terrain....) move faster. If you let a unit move but one hex, the movement will occur in the "middle" of the movement phase. If a unit is involved in any kind of battle, movement is canceled (except for the rare "overruns"). Of course there can also be unforeseen events that interfere with movement orders: order delay, increased enemy ZOC points, etc.

3. Final phase (last few ticks)
The game updates ZoCs and supply status, substracts readiness loss for movement, lets resting units recover readiness, etc.

Yes, that's it.

Bigger battles happen first. This is because you may destroy enemy units that are planned to attack other units and it'll affect those battles. Think bombardments are also ranked by size and occur with battles...I'll need to check that.

[JacquesDeLalaing]

I should have said, a units move points are spread over the entire turn EVEN IF THOSE POINTS ARE NOT USED.

E.g if you have 2 units with 20 move points:
- unit A moves 20 hexes
- unit B moves 10 hexes
then they will both move at the same time for the first 10 hexes, and by mid-turn unit B will have reached its destination and the first will continue moving the final 10 hexes.
So both units move at the same speed.

If you have two units, A with 20 move points and B with 10 move points, then the B will only move every second tick, so they will both arrive at their destination at the same "time". So A is faster than B.

So setting very long, far movement orders won't make any difference. A unit that moves all its move points will take the entire turn to reach its destination (regardless of whether that's 4 move points or 20) and a unit using half its move points will arrive at its destination mid-turn (regardless of whether that's 2 move points or 10).

Thanks for clearing that up! This makes total sense and disposes of all the worries I had about movement "weirdness".
So indeed if two units want to move to the same adjacent hex, then the unit with more movement points should go first (move+ mode, penatlies from interdiction, readiness, unit type, risk of order delay (unit quality, LOC, readiness)).

[JacquesDeLalaing]

Two more things I have noticed or wonder about:

If a unit is below a certain readiness threshold, it seems as if the game no longer applies/displays the (purely cosmetical?) casualties numbers properly? The combat results do state the correct (according to the combat table results table)* loss of strength, but below, the game always lists "no casualties" instead of the proper share of men/vehicles lost.

Also, the manual lists the thresholds (readiness and strength) at which units of varying quality get eliminated (p.83). My impression so far has been that I had to fight units to their complete death. But then I suppose that strength damage is indeed applied as % of current strength? So a unit at 30% strength remaining (meaning 30% of ideal, paper strength) that suffers "50% strength damage" in combat loses but 15% paper strength (50% of its current paper strength, being 30%)? So the smaller/weaker a unit gets, the lower the casualties they tend to suffer (but this is countered by the fact that a weak unit on its own has bad combat odds)? So maybe I was just feeling that I had to fight the unit to the death because of the increased resilience of smaller units (in combination with the bugged displayal of casualty numbers...)?

----------------------
* From my observation, the damage number of the table (modified by unit quality) is first applied fully to the units' readiness, and then a second time partly to readiness and partly to strength, depending on how much readiness a unit had before the battle started: At 100% readiness, the full 100% of the "second" damage is applied to readiness; at 50% readiness, the full 100% of the "second" damage is applied to strength.

[JacquesDeLalaing]

INTEL & ARTY EFFECTIVENESS

It seems that it's the recon level that matters, not the intelligence level on the target hex?

Eg. I order a bombardment on a hex on which I have an intel strength of but 1. Two enemy units are in that hex. Since I have battled them earlier in the game and have not lost sight of them, my recon level on them is pretty good: 3 and 4. The game proceeds to determine the average recon level of the target units, which is 3.5. The manual mentions that this value is always rounded down. Thus my final recon level is 3, which results in a 25% malus on my artillery's attack value (manual p. 47).

EDIT: Then I again I've just suffered the 25% penalty when firing on two recon level 4 units. So perhaps it's the "current" hypothetical recon level after all? Take a look at the screenshot: I was firing my artillery on the german units (both on recon level 4) north of the town. While the game shows that hex in light green (intel strength 2) for some reason, my actual intel strength on that hex would have been 6 (capped at 3!) during that particular turn: 2 from my infantry brigade in town and 3 from the 3 tank units further north (they have a range of 2). Since both german units are regular, intel strength 3 gives me recon level 3, which means -25% for my artillery fire? So perhaps the game uses the CURRENT recon level of the target units which might differ from the "historical" recon level that is shown to the player (as a matter of convenience, so we don't have to take notes about enemy unit sightings?).

Picking up my post from above, I'm still experiencing rather weird results.

In the case shown below, my artillery (ATK 20) fires at enemies on which I only have a recon level of 1. Accordingly, my artillery's fire power should be reduced to just 15% (ATK 3). Oddly enough, the preview as well as the combat results show the correct value, but then take a much higher (unmodified?) attack value (ATK 16) to calculate the actual results....

(Also, the actual enemy units are shown in the battle report, which shouldn't be allowed).

[Saint Ruth]

Two more things I have noticed or wonder about:

If a unit is below a certain readiness threshold, it seems as if the game no longer applies/displays the (purely cosmetical?) casualties numbers properly? The combat results do state the correct (according to the combat table results table)* loss of strength, but below, the game always lists "no casualties" instead of the proper share of men/vehicles lost.

That's a bug! Fixed it so it'll be in the next patch!

Also, the manual lists the thresholds (readiness and strength) at which units of varying quality get eliminated (p.83). My impression so far has been that I had to fight units to their complete death. But then I suppose that strength damage is indeed applied as % of current strength? So a unit at 30% strength remaining (meaning 30% of ideal, paper strength) that suffers "50% strength damage" in combat loses but 15% paper strength (50% of its current paper strength, being 30%)? So the smaller/weaker a unit gets, the lower the casualties they tend to suffer (but this is countered by the fact that a weak unit on its own has bad combat odds)? So maybe I was just feeling that I had to fight the unit to the death because of the increased resilience of smaller units (in combination with the bugged displayal of casualty numbers...)?

----------------------
* From my observation, the damage number of the table (modified by unit quality) is first applied fully to the units' readiness, and then a second time partly to readiness and partly to strength, depending on how much readiness a unit had before the battle started: At 100% readiness, the full 100% of the "second" damage is applied to readiness; at 50% readiness, the full 100% of the "second" damage is applied to strength.

Yes, that's right. Losses are a percent of current strength, but as you say, you'll get better odds and inflict more damage on weaker units. The bug I mentioned above means it's showing "No Losses" when you have indeed inflicted losses.

Yes, damage first to readiness, then to strength, the lower the strength the unit, the more damage is taken off strength.

[JacquesDeLalaing]

Thank you!

So losses are a percentage of current strength which in turn is a percentage of ideal (paper) strength.

The damage number from the combat table is appplied twice. First to readiness, second partly to readiness and partly to strength (depending on how much readiness the unit had at the start of the battle). In my experience it scales from 100% on readiness (@readiness 100) to 100% on losses (@readiness 50).

Note that ALL units take the damage individually (the damage is not "spread out" - you already get an advantage for numerical advantage in terms of combat odds). That's also why artillery is more effective against hexes that contain more than one enemy unit.

--------------

I'd really be interested in how intel works and how it affects artillery/air bombardements. It's the one big riddle that remains and I'd like to explain it in the final videos of my (german) "mechanical" Let's Play/intro series to the game.

[governato]

Thank you!

So losses are a percentage of current strength which in turn is a percentage of ideal (paper) strength.

The damage number from the combat table is appplied twice. First to readiness, second partly to readiness and partly to strength (depending on how much readiness the unit had at the start of the battle). In my experience it scales from 100% on readiness (@readiness 100) to 100% on losses (@readiness 50).

Note that ALL units take the damage individually (the damage is not "spread out" - you already get an advantage for numerical advantage in terms of combat odds). That's also why artillery is more effective against hexes that contain more than one enemy unit.

--------------

I'd really be interested in how intel works and how it affects artillery/air bombardements. It's the one big riddle that remains and I'd like to explain it in the final videos of my (german) "mechanical" Let's Play/intro series to the game.

and how the quality of assets affects results and losses please!

[JacquesDeLalaing]

and how the quality of assets affects results and losses please!

I think this works as explained in the manual and on the combat results table.

During combat resolution, the game determines the average unit quality of each side (always rounded down, if I remember correctly; not sure if weighted by stacking points). The difference in unit quality is then applied as a shift to the final odds.

Once the final odds, intensity and random roll are determined, the damage from the combat table is applied to each individual unit, but it will be modified by each individual unit's experience (more experienced units take less damage than inexperienced ones). How much of the damage is applied to readiness or strength still depends on the unit's readiness (before the battle).