Can Barges unload and load larger ships?

[Kull]

With the caveat that it is only empty troop and cargo carrying vessels in the same TF that contribute to the amphibious unload rate. That would be helpful if you had previously emptied LCMs, etc. in the destination hex, but I would be interested to see how much faster the unit would be unloaded if it had originally been loaded onto all those extra ships.

Beyond any doubt, if those troops were loaded on all ten ships instead of only two, the entire force would probably unload in a single turn. But that's no surprise.

[RangerJoe]

Excellent, now I know to keep empty ships in the Amphibious Task Forces to help the rest unload or to even move in other empty ships. Thank you, that really helps when I have ships with different cargo and troop capacities together.

[Kull]

Excellent, now I know to keep empty ships in the Amphibious Task Forces to help the rest unload or to even move in other empty ships. Thank you, that really helps when I have ships with different cargo and troop capacities together.

My only concern is the potential impact of adding empty xAK or xAP types. Is their amphibious unload capacity an ADDER to the total or is it possible that their abysmal unload rates could somehow reduce the rate for the TF as a whole? It all depends upon how you interpret Don Bowen's comments in this post:

OK, I took a look at the code and I have to admit that I seem to have lied. Not only amphib ships can help in unload, but small beaching craft as well. So my answer a few posts up is incorrect. Empty LB, LCVP, LCM can help in unload. Not by any direct transfer of troops between ships, but by contributing to the new load unload rate for the TF. This is a calculated ability of the TF to unload "over the beach". Empty Amphib ships are great, naval transports (AP/AK) are good, merchant ships (xAP, etc) suck. I'm no longer a member of the development team and I do not feel that I can give exact formula, but the unload bonus can be substantial.

So they *might* help, but not by much. And alternatively, they could make things worse.

Edit: Gah. Time for one more test.....

[Yaab]

A BIG thank you, Kull, for this test!

[Kull]

5) A Cargo TF containing 8 empty xAKs was created in LA and sent to the Channel Islands. On the next turn, all of the xAKs were added to the original Troop TF (alongside the 2 APAs) but NONE of the APDs or LCMs from the previous test were included. The Troop TF was set to unload and at the end of that turn, there was a surprising result. The count of unloaded troops and supplies was IDENTICAL to that which we saw when the TF contained ONLY the two APAs. In other words, the xAKs added NO BENEFIT, but at least they did not adversely affect the unload rate.

[WEXF]

4) In this final test, one of the empty TFs has merged with the Troop TF. It adds 2 APDs and 8 LSMs, all of which have a full set of Ops points but no cargo of any kind. The Troop TF is set to unload, and we see the result at the end of the turn. More troops and supplies have been unloaded at the Channel Islands.

Conclusion: Empty troop and cargo carrying vessels absolutely DO contribute to an improved amphibious unload rate.

With the caveat that it is only empty troop and cargo carrying vessels in the same TF that contribute to the amphibious unload rate. That would be helpful if you had previously emptied LCMs, etc. in the destination hex, but I would be interested to see how much faster the unit would be unloaded if it had originally been loaded onto all those extra ships.

I appreciate all of the activity my post started. I was looking at a much simpler question dealing with empty barges that were not in the same TF as the ships that were trying to load. I don't believe barges can be in a transport/cargo or Amphib TF (although they can be in a Landing Craft TF). The latest posting in this thread seem to be dealing with amphibious activity and not the simple "cargo/transport" TF I started with. 6.3.3.3.2 AMPHIBIOUS UNLOADING: reads:" The Amphibious Unload Rate bonus applies only to ships in an Amphibious TF." I would appreciate Kull commenting on the situation I originally posed.
WEXF

[Kull]

My question is very specific. Can a barge assist in the loading or unloading of a larger ship in a port? If the answer is yes, please tell me how to do it.
Thanks
WEXF

No, a barge does not provide any assistance in either loading or unloading of other ships in port.

The only exception *might* be if a number of empty barges were added to an Escort-type TF that contained loaded cargo/troop ships AND if they could not dock but had to use the amphibious unload rate then, well, yes that probably would help.

[WEXF]

My question is very specific. Can a barge assist in the loading or unloading of a larger ship in a port? If the answer is yes, please tell me how to do it.
Thanks
WEXF

No, a barge does not provide any assistance in either loading or unloading of other ships in port.

The only exception *might* be if a number of empty barges were added to an Escort-type TF that contained loaded cargo/troop ships AND if they could not dock but had to use the amphibious unload rate then, well, yes that probably would help.

Thanks for this.
I went back and ran a test using an Escort TF to see if it would help loading an empty TF. The screen shows that the barges and xAKs are in the same TF but the ability to load anything is greyed out.

escTFa.png (659.12 KiB) Viewed 557 times

[Kull]

I didn't say anything about barges possibly helping with "loading" because only "Naval Support" will help with that, nothing else.

[WEXF]

I also checked about unloading.
Here are the two screen shots when the xAKs had already been loaded partially. The same greyed out options exist. The amount of supplies on the ships did not change day to day. Interesting it does look like you can stop loading.

dec9etfa.jpg (390.79 KiB) Viewed 540 times

dec10ETFa.jpg (410.48 KiB) Viewed 537 times

[RangerJoe]

I think that the "Escort" TF needs to starting unload as an Amphibious TF before changing it to an escort TF and then adding the empty ships.

[Kull]

The only exception *might* be if a number of empty barges were added to an Escort-type TF that contained loaded cargo/troop ships AND if they could not dock but had to use the amphibious unload rate then, well, yes that probably would help.

I ran some tests and could not change an Amphibious troop-carrying TF into an Escort TF. As for an Amphibious cargo-carrying TF, it was possible to make it an Escort TF and even add some empty LCTs, but the "unload" button was greyed out.

Which means the "Escort TF workaround" postulated earlier is not possible, and thus there is no situation in which empty Barges can improve Amphibious TF unload rates.

[WEXF]

The only exception *might* be if a number of empty barges were added to an Escort-type TF that contained loaded cargo/troop ships AND if they could not dock but had to use the amphibious unload rate then, well, yes that probably would help.

I ran some tests and could not change an Amphibious troop-carrying TF into an Escort TF. As for an Amphibious cargo-carrying TF, it was possible to make it an Escort TF and even add some empty LCTs, but the "unload" button was greyed out.

Which means the "Escort TF workaround" postulated earlier is not possible, and thus there is no situation in which empty Barges can improve Amphibious TF unload rates.

Thanks so much for taking the time to clarify this. This has been a very interesting thread and I have the answers I need to play just a little bit smarter. Thanks to all who participated.
WEXF

[Moltrey]

5) A Cargo TF containing 8 empty xAKs was created in LA and sent to the Channel Islands. On the next turn, all of the xAKs were added to the original Troop TF (alongside the 2 APAs) but NONE of the APDs or LCMs from the previous test were included. The Troop TF was set to unload and at the end of that turn, there was a surprising result. The count of unloaded troops and supplies was IDENTICAL to that which we saw when the TF contained ONLY the two APAs. In other words, the xAKs added NO BENEFIT, but at least they did not adversely affect the unload rate.

Thinking about it, this DOES make sense; xAP's and xAK's don't really have any true U.S. (or other sovereign) naval accoutrement to assist with amphibious or other loading or unloading. They are built to be passenger or cargo vessels with few if any frills.

[bradfordkay]

Thinking about it, this DOES make sense; xAP's and xAK's don't really have any true U.S. (or other sovereign) naval accoutrement to assist with amphibious or other loading or unloading. They are built to be passenger or cargo vessels with few if any frills.

Well, some of them had lots of frills before (and after) the war, just not the kind to help unload troops over a beach.