Never Thought I'd Start Another One - tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J)

[PaxMondo]

It can increase the gatigue but those pilots are so low in skill and experience it doesn't take much training for them to increase their numbers. Later on, they will need more training to increase the numbers so the fatigue will show up then. You can see who actually is training then as well.

Interesting I did not realize better experience increased fatigue while training.

It takes longer the train the more experience that the pilots have.

Absolutely.

The "sweet" spot for training is from EXP 30 - 50. Pilots in that range can gain a skill point every other turn, or faster. You can gain a LOT of skill very quickly. Above EXP 50, skill gain is MUCH slower. My rationalization for this in game is that it is tougher to teach old dogs new tricks.

Under 30, I also see skill training to be slower. Not as bad as over 50, but still quite noticeable. My rationalization for this is the beanies are SO new, they can't even find their aircraft some days. Other days, they fall off the cockpit ladder and need a plaster.

Training group

Screenshot 2025-07-20 094719 training group.jpg (93.26 KiB) Viewed 233 times

As you can see, a lot of "greenage".

[Mike Solli]

Man, this is like the good old days. Lots of banter about fun stuff! The big difference today for me is our 3 grandsons, two at 4 yo and one at 7 months. They are around a lot and always want my undivided attention.

[PaxMondo]

Man, this is like the good old days. Lots of banter about fun stuff! The big difference today for me is our 3 grandsons, two at 4 yo and one at 7 months. They are around a lot and always want my undivided attention.

Congrats!!!!

I started my family VERY late in life. Right now, hoping to see my youngest graduate (he's a junior this coming year). I'm older than his classmates' grandparents by a fair few years. Grandkids? I doubt I'll ever see them. The eldest finally has a solid girlfriend, but marriage? Maybe another 5 years or more.

[Mike Solli]

26 Dec 41

Sub War

Nothing to report.

5 Fleet

Nothing to report.

4 Fleet

Baker Island was successfully liberated. The NG there will stay until I get some independent SNLF companies in 18 days. One of them will become the permanent garrison. Some engineers are arriving at Truk in a day and will be sent to Baker.

The same thing goes for Canton Island, where the NG will land tomorrow.

After that, I'm thinking of landing at Johnston Island with a NG and an SNLF battalion. The NG battalion will stay there. That should cause some sort of reaction from Ted. KB will be hanging in the wings, so it might get interesting.

SE Fleet

Nothing to report.

SRA

Malaya

Four Buffalos rose against Yamada Det at Singapore and 2 were shot down. I have my first 2 aces! Multiple airfield attacks against Singapore resulted in enough damage to the airfield that it wasn't all repaired. I lost 2 bombers to flak.

Georgetown was easily liberated. The infrastructure was in good shape:

Manpower - 1(1)
HI - 4(1)

Nothing will be rebuilt.

Johore Bahru was captured easily. Now, the 7 remaining British units outside of Singapore are cut off from Singapore and supply. My forces are heading south driving all ahead of them.

Between Georgetown and Johore Bahru, 8 Buffalos, 3 Blenheim IFs and 3 Wirraways were captured on the ground.

Philippines

No enemy fighters rose today. Intel says there are a dozen left, all in Clark Field and Bataan. Bombers hit the airfields at both bases and artillery bombarded Clark Field. The 6 artillery units from Hong Kong arrived at Clark Field and will join the 5 artillery units and 48 Division in bombarding tomorrow.

Mindanao

Nothing to report.

Borneo

The 91 NG attacked the Dutch battalion at Pontianak unsuccessfully. They're probably unable to take them. I'll probably need to send more troops to that corner of the island to take it all. No hurry on that. Singkawang is thriving and the airfield is currently at 3.22.

Burma

Nothing to report.

China

Nothing new to report.

Other Stuff

Reinforcement:
I/84 NG at Saipan. It'll go to SE Fleet AO.

I shut off Betty production for a bit to save on Ha-32 engines, which are also needed for the Sally. Both planes are at 30 production a month requiring 120 engines a month. The engine production is currently at 78(12), so not enough to build both. There are only 14 engines in the pool, and 38 Betties and 17 Sallies in their pools. I've taken only 1 Betty out of the pool so far. By just producing 1 Sally a month, the engine pool will slowly increase. I'm going to try and keep it at 90. We'll see how that works out...

[Mike Solli]

Man, this is like the good old days. Lots of banter about fun stuff! The big difference today for me is our 3 grandsons, two at 4 yo and one at 7 months. They are around a lot and always want my undivided attention.

Congrats!!!!

I started my family VERY late in life. Right now, hoping to see my youngest graduate (he's a junior this coming year). I'm older than his classmates' grandparents by a fair few years. Grandkids? I doubt I'll ever see them. The eldest finally has a solid girlfriend, but marriage? Maybe another 5 years or more.

I remember when your oldest was 2 years old.

[bradfordkay]

The Japanese don't need to load their aircraft on cargo ships but the Allies do need to load them on cargo ships if they actually want the air units go to where they are needed.

Not the Allied AI!

Since the AI cannot load aircraft onto ships (it doesn't know how), the AI gets a "free pass" and can move anywhere. Also, since the AI was never "taught" about PP's either, it ignores HQ limitations as well.

Don't forget as well, the level 9 and higher airfields get an air support bonus, if I remember correctly the number is doubled.

Size 8 AF's get double the limit on airgroups at a base before overcrowding penalty kicks in and Size 9 AF's have no limit.

I'm not aware that there is an AS bonus as well.

If you pay attention, a level 8 AF doubles the amount of air support the AS squads provide. If the base just increased from level 7 to 8 you won't see it that turn but you will the next turn. I consider level 8 airfields to be almost as important as level 9 (can't beat that unlimited number of aircraft and squadrons a level 9 can support, but doubling the amount of air support goes a long way, especially in Babes scenarios).

[PaxMondo]

If you pay attention, a level 8 AF doubles the amount of air support the AS squads provide. If the base just increased from level 7 to 8 you won't see it that turn but you will the next turn. I consider level 8 airfields to be almost as important as level 9 (can't beat that unlimited number of aircraft and squadrons a level 9 can support, but doubling the amount of air support goes a long way, especially in Babes scenarios).

Brad,

So the doubling at level 8 and unlimited at Level 9 relates to the stacking penalty at an airbase. Not the Air Support squads. Related, but not identical. Think of the stacking penalty as being the number of tie downs at a given air base. Until you get to level 8, the area is rather limited. AS are the techs who actually do the work and you want 1 per plane.

So at level 7 you can have 900 AS, but the stacking penalty kicks in at 350 planes irregardless.

Grow the AF to level 8, and now you can have up to 800 planes. Again, even with the 900 AS, you will get a stacking penalty if you exceed 800 AC at the base.

Grow the AF to level 9, now you can have as many planes as you wish at the AF. But, you only have 900 AS to service those planes.

At least this is how I have always understood it. If there is an AS bonus to the larger AF's, I'm not aware of it. I reviewed the beta notes again and didn't find any mention of this.

[bradfordkay]

If you pay attention, a level 8 AF doubles the amount of air support the AS squads provide. If the base just increased from level 7 to 8 you won't see it that turn but you will the next turn. I consider level 8 airfields to be almost as important as level 9 (can't beat that unlimited number of aircraft and squadrons a level 9 can support, but doubling the amount of air support goes a long way, especially in Babes scenarios).

Brad,

So the doubling at level 8 and unlimited at Level 9 relates to the stacking penalty at an airbase. Not the Air Support squads. Related, but not identical. Think of the stacking penalty as being the number of tie downs at a given air base. Until you get to level 8, the area is rather limited. AS are the techs who actually do the work and you want 1 per plane.

So at level 7 you can have 900 AS, but the stacking penalty kicks in at 350 planes irregardless.

Grow the AF to level 8, and now you can have up to 800 planes. Again, even with the 900 AS, you will get a stacking penalty if you exceed 800 AC at the base.

Grow the AF to level 9, now you can have as many planes as you wish at the AF. But, you only have 900 AS to service those planes.

At least this is how I have always understood it. If there is an AS bonus to the larger AF's, I'm not aware of it. I reviewed the beta notes again and didn't find any mention of this.

If I put a base force with 72 AS in it on an empty level 8 airbase, that airbase will show up as having 144 AS - at least in the last official update. Check it out. Yes, you can overwhelm the base with too many aircraft, but the air support level is doubled when an airfield reaches level 8.

[Seacat54]

If I put a base force with 72 AS in it on an empty level 8 airbase, that airbase will show up as having 144 AS - at least in the last official update. Check it out. Yes, you can overwhelm the base with too many aircraft, but the air support level is doubled when an airfield reaches level 8.

What is the logic behind this?

[RangerJoe]

If I put a base force with 72 AS in it on an empty level 8 airbase, that airbase will show up as having 144 AS - at least in the last official update. Check it out. Yes, you can overwhelm the base with too many aircraft, but the air support level is doubled when an airfield reaches level 8.

What is the logic behind this?

It is probably because there are more support facilities available instead of the air support people working in tents, if they even have those available.

[RangerJoe]

26 Dec 41

Malaya

Four Buffalos rose against Yamada Det at Singapore and 2 were shot down. I have my first 2 aces! Multiple airfield attacks against Singapore resulted in enough damage to the airfield that it wasn't all repaired. I lost 2 bombers to flak.

Georgetown was easily liberated. The infrastructure was in good shape:

Manpower - 1(1)
HI - 4(1)

Nothing will be rebuilt.

Other Stuff

I shut off Betty production for a bit to save on Ha-32 engines, which are also needed for the Sally. Both planes are at 30 production a month requiring 120 engines a month. The engine production is currently at 78(12), so not enough to build both. There are only 14 engines in the pool, and 38 Betties and 17 Sallies in their pools. I've taken only 1 Betty out of the pool so far. By just producing 1 Sally a month, the engine pool will slowly increase. I'm going to try and keep it at 90. We'll see how that works out...

If you are going to build/rebuild any HI, the one at Georgetown is not a bad option. It will use fuel and resources that don't have to make it to Japan nor Northern China, Manchuria, or Korea.

I like to switch to the Nell, especially the long ranged Nell instead of the Betty. The idea of a different engine helps plus the very long range helps with night base attacks as well as ASW and naval searches. Also, won't you need the Ha-32 engines later for other aircraft plus any engine bonus? If so, I would expand it more now if you have the supplies since the engines can be stockpiled and in the long run, you may not have to expand the factories as much so that should save some supplies as well.

[Skyros]

If I put a base force with 72 AS in it on an empty level 8 airbase, that airbase will show up as having 144 AS - at least in the last official update. Check it out. Yes, you can overwhelm the base with too many aircraft, but the air support level is doubled when an airfield reaches level 8.

What is the logic behind this?

It is probably because there are more support facilities available instead of the air support people working in tents, if they even have those available.

Here is what the current manual has to say about airfield size and AS.

9.4.1 Airfield Size
Airfield size has many effects. It is easier to damage and destroy aircraft on the ground at smaller airfields (less dispersion). It is also more likely that planes will suffer operational losses when landing at smaller airfields.
Level bombers require an airfield equal to size 4 + (bomb load / 6500) rounded down. So, a B29 requires a size 7 airfield to avoid the penalties.
Penalties include:
● Increased operational losses on takeoff.
● A reduction in their range as air units cannot fly combat Missions at greater than their normal range.
● A diminished (extended range) bomb load.
If a base has less Aviation Support than is required, level bomber offensive missions are reduced by 25%.
If an Airfield has too many aircraft (physical space) or groups (administrative) present, then the airfield is deemed overstacked. And is indicated by an ‘*’ next to the airfield.
An overstacked airfield affects how many aircraft can be launched, casualties from attacks and aircraft repairs.
An airfield of 8+ has its Aviation Support doubled.
A 9+ airfield does not suffer from overstacking.
An airfield can operate 50 single engine (or 25 two engine, or 12 four engine) planes per AF size or 1 group per AF size. The best Air HQ of the same command as the base which is within range can add its command radius to the number of groups that can be administrated, or if not in the same command, the nearest HQ will add ½ its command radius to the number of groups.
In addition, groups at rest or in training only count as 1/3 for the purposes of counting aircraft at the base, and don’t count at all against the number of groups. Split groups only count as individual groups if they are attached to different HQs.
Also, the player should keep a number of air support squads equal to the number of engines – not airframes – at a base. For example, if you have 12 4 engine and 16 single engine aircraft at a base, you want to have at least 64 air support squads at the base.

[BBfanboy]

Not so much getting mechanics into better quarters (they get out of tents about level 2 in my estimation), but better maintenance things - hangars, lighting, hydraulic lifts and pits, stands instead of ladders, power tools run by electricity or compressed air, solvent baths for cleaning parts and replacement parts close at hand. Just having a place to put down one tool and pick up the next one close to hand greatly speeds up the work.

[Mike Solli]

Also, the player should keep a number of air support squads equal to the number of engines – not airframes – at a base. For example, if you have 12 4 engine and 16 single engine aircraft at a base, you want to have at least 64 air support squads at the base.

That level 8+ airbase is a must, especially in DaBabes. Yikes!

By the way, thanks for the info. That's invaluable.

[Mike Solli]

27 Dec 41

Sub War

Nothing to report.

5 Fleet

I see a single ship just SE of Adak Island, but the slacker sub commander won't attack. It appears the sub has not been spotted.

I am sending a small TF of 2 CL and 3 DD to visit the area. It'll take a week for them to get there.

4 Fleet

Canton Island was liberated today destroying a small BF. I decided to pull the NG from here and Baker Island and team them up with the SNLF that arrived from Wake Island. All 3 of them will team up to Johnston Island with KB hovering nearby. This will delay the invasion of Rabaul, but I think it is worth it. It's something I've never done before. I don't think Ted will be expecting it. One of the NG units will remain at Johnston Island.

SE Fleet

Three Hudsons bomb Kavieng's airfield in an effort (unsuccessfully) to slow down the engineers. The airfield will reach level 1 tomorrow and I'll post some Claudes there. If I remember correctly, fighters will fly CAP at a level 1 airfield. Maybe they can shoot one of them down and gain some experience a little faster.

SRA

Malaya

Only 2 Buffalos rose over Singapore and one was shot down. I think there's only one Buffalo remaining. There are still a handful of bombers there. Three Blenheim IVs flew unsuccessfully against a TF today. Zuiho and Hosho are entering the area tomorrow. Hopefully, the bombers will attack them and give the Zero pilots some experience.

Bombers flew against Singapore losing a couple and increasing the remaining damage against the airfield.

I have changed things up a bit. The 1E bombers are now attacking the ground targets in preparation for attacks against them. Tomorrow, the Sallies (the only bombers being used against Singapore) will perform a port attack. There are about 10 merchant ships in port. Intel says most of them are xAPs. We'll see...

Philippines

Again, no enemy fighters flew against my Zeros and the bombers increased damage on Bataan and Clark Field's airfields.

Interestingly, there is no flak shooting Bataan. Hmm...

Mindanao

I goofed. I had Chokai and a couple escorts sitting in Butuan hoping to attack an enemy TF sitting in the hex. They've both been there for a few days with no combat. Today, a couple of those damn Do-24s attacked and put 2 bombs into Chokai. They're on their way to port to repair the 13 sys damage she gained. Actually, it could have been much worse.

Borneo

Nothing to report.

Burma

Progress is slow, but one infantry regiment is only 10 miles from Moulmein. There is only one defender there, but another is 1 hex to the SW and moving toward Moulmein. They'll probably get there before me.

China

A few days ago, a chutai of Anns began bombing the airfield at Changsha. Today they hit pay dirt destroying an A29A Hudson on the ground. I'm waiting for fighters to show up there. About a dozen Nates escort them every day, when that eventually happens.

Other Stuff

Nothing to report.

[Mike Solli]

Something just dawned on me. When you click on a base, it'll tell you aviation support and aviation support required. The aviation support required number is always the number of aircraft at that base, not the number of engines. That doesn't jive with what you said about the support required being the number of engines at the base.

[Mike Solli]

28 Dec 41

Sub War

Nothing to report.

5 Fleet

The elusive Allied TF is still hanging around Adak and my sub won't do anything but watch them.

4 Fleet

Reloading two NGs on transports to head to Johnston Island.

SE Fleet

Kavieng's airfield reached level 1 but I forgot to move the Claudes there.

78 Infantry Regiment/20 Division will reach Truk tomorrow. I'm reluctant to send them to Rabaul. I see that there are 2 Allied units there but that's all the intel I have. I have 7 RO subs patrolling to the south and they don't see anything. I should have sent a Glen sub down there. I do have a Glen sub around Fuji chasing after a TF, but I will probably send her toward Rabaul to check things out before doing anything. Tomorrow, along with the Claudes, I'm going to send some Jakes to Kavieng too. We'll see if there's anything there.

SRA

Malaya

The port attack was a success. There wasn't any lasting port damage but the airfield damage is still at 14. There were a total of 10 small ships in port that were hit. Seven were sunk outright and 3 more heavily damaged. I heard multiple sinking sounds throughout the turn and don't see any ships in port now. I suspect they're all gone, but they're really minor. There were 3 AMc, 2 ML, an HDML and an MMS(?) sunk with 3 AG heavily damaged. Like I said, it's really minor ships, but they're gone now. The Sallies have switched back to airfield attack.

No Buffalos flew today and I lost 1 Sally to flak.

The 21 Division chewed up the 22 Indian Brigade and a light AA regiment pushing them south to the hex between Kuala Lumpur and Kuantan. The 21 Division is heading back to Kuantan to reboard its transports for its next mission in Sumatra.

The 148 Infantry Regiment beat up and pushed south a BF liberating Kluong.

Philippines

Normal bombing of Clark and Bataan's airfields and bombardment at Clark. 16 and 48 Divisions are at Clark Field and 16 Brigade is moving there from Manila. Once they arrive, I'll try a deliberate attack to test the waters.

Mindanao

At Davao, the 144 Infantry Regiment attacked a PA infantry regiment and BF. They were just a couple of points short of 2:1 odds so they will shock attack tomorrow. They had no losses and killed a couple of enemy squads.

Borneo

Nothing to report.

Other Places

Morotai was liberated, but the company doing the liberating saw a Do-24 come in and sink one of the 2 APDs that dropped them off. I suspect they're pretty happy to be on solid ground.

Burma

My infantry regiment made it to Moulmein before the Allied unit moving north along the rail line. It will shock attack tomorrow. Hopefully, it will take the base before enemy reinforcements arrive.

China

Still making little attacks and moving stuff around.

Other Stuff

Reinforcement:
SC Ch-25 - ASW

[bradfordkay]

Something just dawned on me. When you click on a base, it'll tell you aviation support and aviation support required. The aviation support required number is always the number of aircraft at that base, not the number of engines. That doesn't jive with what you said about the support required being the number of engines at the base.

To the best of my knowledge, the engine limitation is based on AF size, not AS. You are allowed 50 engines (50 single engine a/c, 25 twin engine a/c, 12 4 engine a/c, or combinations thereof) per AF level as explained in rule 9.4 in the original manual.

[Skyros]

Something just dawned on me. When you click on a base, it'll tell you aviation support and aviation support required. The aviation support required number is always the number of aircraft at that base, not the number of engines. That doesn't jive with what you said about the support required being the number of engines at the base.

Singapore exceeds aviation support by 71 aircraft, but the total aircraft stacking is okay with 155 of 300.

Screenshot 2025-07-22 114942.jpg (86.41 KiB) Viewed 18 times

Screenshot 2025-07-22 115100.jpg (51.03 KiB) Viewed 18 times

An over stacked airfield affects how many aircraft can be launched, casualties from attacks and aircraft repairs.

If a base has less Aviation Support than is required, level bomber offensive missions are reduced by 25%.

So no impact on Singapore since its Aircraft stack is less then 300. However its bomber missions will be impacted and reduced 25% until AS is increased or aircraft move to another base.

[Mike Solli]

The "sweet" spot for training is from EXP 30 - 50. Pilots in that range can gain a skill point every other turn, or faster. You can gain a LOT of skill very quickly. Above EXP 50, skill gain is MUCH slower. My rationalization for this in game is that it is tougher to teach old dogs new tricks.

Under 30, I also see skill training to be slower. Not as bad as over 50, but still quite noticeable. My rationalization for this is the beanies are SO new, they can't even find their aircraft some days. Other days, they fall off the cockpit ladder and need a plaster.

I agree, Pax. Here's my ideas on training fighter pilots:

I look at experience/a2a/defense and will put numbers in that order #/#/#.

IJNAF

There are 3 tiers:

Rookies
Land based
Carrier based

This is the order from worst to best. The rookies are the guys that come out of flight school and are assigned to the fighter units that are restricted to Japan (initially only 3). I put one elite pilot and 1/3 capacity with veteran pilots (minimum of 70/70/70) and pack the rest with rookies. When the rookies reach 50/50/50, they graduate to the reserve pool. So, the 2 starting chutai have 1 elite, 3 veterans and 12 rookies. The daitai has 1 elite, 11 veterans and 36 rookies. That makes only 60 rookies training at the start. I estimate 3 months to train the rookies so that's an average of 20 per month.

Land based

These are the guys who aspire to become carrier pilots. The daitai have 2-3 elite, and are filled with veterans. They usually have a few spare pilots. Whenever anyone reaches a minimum of 70/70/70, they are pulled into reserve for the carrier fleet. Replacements come from the graduated rookies. The goal is to have no more than 1/3 of the pilots be graduated rookies.

Carrier based

These are the cream of the crop. They are a minimum of 70/70/70 with 3 elite pilots. As more pilots become elite, the excess are dumped into TRACOM.

TRACOM

This serves two functions. First, they are a reserve to replace any lost elite pilots or for special missions. Second, they will expedite the graduation of pilots from training to the pilot pool. In my last game, I had a Nell daitai composed of elite pilots with amazing skills to be used in night torpedo missions.

Here are the definitions of the pilot classes:

Rookie: Usually know to stay away from a spinning propeller.
Experienced: Minimum of 50/50/50.
Veteran: Minimum of 70/70/70.
Elite: Minimum of 81/70/70.

IJAAF

The standards are a little more lax, but here are the goals:

Rookies

The training units are those restricted in Japan and Manchuoko. There are a lot more of them than in the IJAAF so the number of experienced pilots grow much faster.

"Rear" areas

This is mainly China. Same breakdown as with the IJAAF. When they reach 70/70/70 (more or less), they go into reserve for the front line units.

Front line

This initially is Burma. This is where they hone their skills against the RAF. Later, they'll spread to the Pacific and SRA when needed.