Never Thought I'd Start Another One - tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J)

[Mike Solli]

Brad and Skyros, I think we may be talking about different things. I am aware that the airfield can support the number of engines there equal to the airfield size * 50. What I'm talking about is the air support squads, which is in the air support units and some other units.

[Mike Solli]

Also, the player should keep a number of air support squads equal to the number of engines – not airframes – at a base. For example, if you have 12 4 engine and 16 single engine aircraft at a base, you want to have at least 64 air support squads at the base.

That level 8+ airbase is a must, especially in DaBabes. Yikes!

By the way, thanks for the info. That's invaluable.

This is where I think there is confusion. I think you mean the number of engines an airfield can support, not the number of aircraft support squads. Each air support squad can support one aircraft regardless of the number of engines on that aircraft.

[bradfordkay]

Brad and Skyros, I think we may be talking about different things. I am aware that the airfield can support the number of engines there equal to the airfield size * 50. What I'm talking about is the air support squads, which is in the air support units and some other units.

Mike, I was agreeing with your post. I think that Skyros was posting misinformation but I am willing to be proven wrong. Neither my printed manual nor the PDF one in the game folder mention anything about air support having anything to do with the number of engines at a base. I was posting what information I had to back up my claim. If anyone can post a link to information that disproves my claim I am willing to read it.

[Mike Solli]

29 Dec 41 - This turned out to be a pretty good turn.

Sub War

Nothing to report.

5 Fleet

Nothing to report.

4 Fleet



SE Fleet



SRA

Malaya

Two Buffalos rose at Singapore and were both shot down by Yamada Det. I believe that is the last of the fighters of the RAF. There still are a few bombers remaining, but the RAF is effectively finished in Malaya.

Two Sallies were lost to flak in the bombing of the airfield at Singapore.

Temuloh was liberated with the 4 enemy units retreating south. There still are 7 enemy units in Malaya, 6 just east of Kuala Lumpur and one at Malacca. My forces are closing in on them to destroy them before heading to Singapore.

Philippines

No enemy fighters rose to fight, but I'll continue the sweeps of Bataan and Clark Field. Intel says there still are a handful of fighters spread between those 2 bases. The airfields at both bases are moderately damaged. I'll continue to bomb them, just to be safe. The 65 Brigade is still a day out of Clark Field. When they arrive, I'll do a deliberate attack to accelerate the destruction of the enemy army. I may even succeed. Who knows.

Mindanao

An SNLF landed at Zamboanga and will take it tomorrow.

Davao was liberated, pushing the enemy forces out to the north to Butuan.

Cotabato was liberated, destroying the base force there.

Borneo

Nothing to report.

Other Places

Langsa (north of Medan) was liberated by paradrop. Tomorrow, I'll pull the troops back out and then land them on Sabang, which will give me the northern end of Sumatra.

Burma

Moulmein was easily liberated, destroying the 11 Burma Rifles Battalion. The 15 Army is finally getting into action.

Chiang Mai's airfield is slowly building and is currently at 1.61.

China

Still moving and minor attacks...

Other Stuff

I am preparing for the invasion of northern Java and Palembang. 2 Division with artillery and armor support will invade various points around Batavia and quickly move to take the northern third of Java (down to Tjilatjap) and invest Batavia. I want to try and take that base quickly. If not, I want Ted to decide to remove his air power from Batavia. I will then invade Sumatra with a naval landing at Oosthaven using 4 Division with armor support and paradrops too. The reserve is 21 Division, which will most likely be used in Java to assist there.

[Mike Solli]

Brad and Skyros, I think we may be talking about different things. I am aware that the airfield can support the number of engines there equal to the airfield size * 50. What I'm talking about is the air support squads, which is in the air support units and some other units.

Mike, I was agreeing with your post. I think that Skyros was posting misinformation but I am willing to be proven wrong. Neither my printed manual nor the PDF one in the game folder mention anything about air support having anything to do with the number of engines at a base. I was posting what information I had to back up my claim. If anyone can post a link to information that disproves my claim I am willing to read it.

Totally agree with you, Brad. Thanks!

[Skyros]

Brad and Skyros, I think we may be talking about different things. I am aware that the airfield can support the number of engines there equal to the airfield size * 50. What I'm talking about is the air support squads, which is in the air support units and some other units.

Mike, I was agreeing with your post. I think that Skyros was posting misinformation but I am willing to be proven wrong. Neither my printed manual nor the PDF one in the game folder mention anything about air support having anything to do with the number of engines at a base. I was posting what information I had to back up my claim. If anyone can post a link to information that disproves my claim I am willing to read it.

Totally agree with you, Brad. Thanks!

My information comes from the manual page 184 Section 9.4.1. It is in both the PDF and Word version.

[Skyros]

From page 184 9.4.1 Airfield Size

Aviation support affect is: If a base has less Aviation Support than is required, level bomber offensive missions are reduced by 25%.

Engines affect over stacking which has the following affect: An over stacked airfield affects how many aircraft can be launched, casualties from attacks and aircraft repairs.

There is another statement relating to engines and not airframes being equal to support squads, but without any ramifications specified.

Page 185 9.4.1 Airfield Size

Also, the player should keep a number of air support squads equal to the number of engines – not airframes – at a base.
For example, if you have 12 4 engine and 16 single engine aircraft at a base, you want to have at least 64 air support squads at the base.

[bradfordkay]

Page 185 is rule 8.2.1.1 Operations Mode. Rule 9.4.1 Airfield Damage is on page 214. This is using the last official version 1.8 11 26a.

9.4 AIRFIELDS
Airfields accommodate, repair and resupply air
units, and serve as a point from which to launch
air strikes.
Airfield size has many effects. It is easier to
damage and destroy aircraft on the ground at
smaller airfields (less dispersion). It is also more
likely that planes will suffer operational losses
when landing at smaller airfields.
Level bombers require an airfield equal to size 4
+ (bomb load / 6500) rounded down. So, a B29 requires a size 7 airfield to avoid the penalties.
Light bombers require a starting airfield of 2 rather than 4.
Penalties include:
» Increased operational losses on takeoff.
» A reduction in their range as air units cannot fly combat
Missions at greater than their normal range.
» A diminished (extended range) bomb load.
213
If a base has less Aviation Support than is required, level bomber offensive missions are
reduced by 25%.
If an Airfield has too many aircraft (physical space) or groups (administrative) present, then the
airfield is deemed overstacked. And is indicated by an ‘*’ next to the airfield.
An overstacked airfield affects how many aircraft can be launched, casualties from attacks
and aircraft repairs.
A 9+ airfield does not suffer from overstacking.
An airfield can operate 50 single engine (or 25 two engine, or 12 four engine) planes per AF size
or 1 group per AF size. The best Air HQ of the same command as the base which is within range
can add its command radius to the number of groups that can be administrated, or if not in the
same command, the nearest HQ will add ½ its command radius to the number of groups.
In addition, groups at rest or in training only count as 1/3 for the purposes of counting aircraft
at the base, and don’t count at all against the number of groups. Split groups only count as
individual groups if they are attached to different HQs.
9.4.1 AIRFIELD DAMAGE
Airfields can suffer two types of damage: runway and service (both ranging from 0 to 100
percent). It is easier to damage smaller airfields than larger airfields, but once damaged larger
airfields take longer to repair. Less damage to the runway is required at smaller airfields in
order to prevent aircraft from being able to take off and land than at larger airfields.
Airfield service damage in combination with the availability of aviation support determines
the number of aircraft that can be repaired and may limit the number of planes that may
be operational (ready, not in reserve). Airfield service damage can also impact the morale of
pilots.
Runway damage can limit the air operations at a base. A strike Mission may only be launched
from a base with runway damage less than 20+(Airfield Size *5). Patrol and CAP Missions may
only be launched from bases with runway damage less than 50+(Airfield Size *5).
Damage can also impact the receiving of air replacements and upgrades.

I have searched the website for a "latest manual" as you claim this is from and can find nothing whatsoever. It is not on the WITP-AE downloads page, nor does a forum search bring anything up. If you have a link to that manual,, please provide it.

[Skyros]

Brad it comes from the manual folder from the install of the newest version.

Screenshot 2025-07-22 154615.jpg (13.42 KiB) Viewed 227 times

[bradfordkay]

Okay, I am not playing the newest version, at least until it becomes an official one.

This could be why that effect is not showing up in my game. Just like Mike says, when I look at the "aviation support required" line for any base, the amount of air support listed as required is invariably equal to the number of aircraft at that base, not the number of engines.

I do have to wonder about the depth of that manual supplied with the new patch, as the shift from pages 213-214 to page 185 for the Air Base information indicates that an awful lot has been deleted. Did they remove all the explanatory screenshots?

[RangerJoe]

For training, I like to have the rookies fill up the regular number of pilots of the air unit which is also the maximum number of flyable aircraft with the 81+ experts filling out the rest of the unit if at all possible. Other good pilots can also help early when there are not enough experts. This allows the average of the experience and skills to be much higher than what the trainees usually have. I have found that the trainees train faster when their skills are not more than 5 points higher than the average. Then there are the 50+ "experienced" pilots who don't have that high a skill set. They are a pain to train higher but I will also have them train the best that I can. Early on, those pilots may be in combat, especially for the Allies over their own bases.

You can also use the float planes to train all pilots for everything except naval torpedo bombing. By taking the second float plane unit of the CS ships and the cruisers that have them, they can be supersized up to 27 aircraft. I also will use those for low naval training as well as combat if they can attack the cargo and transport ships. They will take a slight decrease to their experience if/when they switch to a non-float aircraft. As Jakes, they can do a lot of Naval Searches and aerial ASW searches along the convoy routes. Then by keeping the convoys in shallow waters with escorts, they make the Allied submarines much less effective. I will also have some 3 ship ASW TFs using those small SC ships with the 8 ASW. Two or three of those ships, possibly with another ASW vessel with a larger gun in case the submarine surfaces. Those ASW TFs have sunk enemy submarines.

You can also supersize Japanese carrier air units to 93 using the Akagi. If nothing else, 2 of the 3 can be used for training and/or rear area security. Claudes will work nicely as trainers and even against Allied TBs if their CAP altitude is around 6k where they can also try to shoot down aircraft doing naval searches. Too bad no IJAAF air units can fly from carriers . . .

[Skyros]

Okay, I am not playing the newest version, at least until it becomes an official one.

This could be why that effect is not showing up in my game. Just like Mike says, when I look at the "aviation support required" line for any base, the amount of air support listed as required is invariably equal to the number of aircraft at that base, not the number of engines.

I do have to wonder about the depth of that manual supplied with the new patch, as the shift from pages 213-214 to page 185 for the Air Base information indicates that an awful lot has been deleted. Did they remove all the explanatory screenshots?

The formatting is different between the two manuals. The original one looks like an old booklet and the newer one a plain PDF. I would guess that everything is there and hopefully a bit more.

Original Manual

Screenshot 2025-07-23 111017.jpg (154.35 KiB) Viewed 184 times

New Manual

Screenshot 2025-07-23 111041.png (216.61 KiB) Viewed 184 times

[RangerJoe]

Okay, I am not playing the newest version, at least until it becomes an official one.

This could be why that effect is not showing up in my game. Just like Mike says, when I look at the "aviation support required" line for any base, the amount of air support listed as required is invariably equal to the number of aircraft at that base, not the number of engines.

I do have to wonder about the depth of that manual supplied with the new patch, as the shift from pages 213-214 to page 185 for the Air Base information indicates that an awful lot has been deleted. Did they remove all the explanatory screenshots?

The formatting is different between the two manuals. The original one looks like an old booklet and the newer one a plain PDF. I would guess that everything is there and hopefully a bit more.

Screenshot 2025-07-23 111017.jpg

Screenshot 2025-07-23 111041.png

I bought the game with the printed manual. Now there will be no more printed manuals, they will all be electronic files like the PDFs.

[PaxMondo]

Okay, I am not playing the newest version, at least until it becomes an official one.

Brad,
I'm in the same boat as you. Clearly, there are HUGE changes in the new release, not just bug-fixing and tweaks as in the last 10 years. So, Mike, going forward I won't be commenting on game play because I haven't played this version and have no near-term plans to do so. I had no idea that the new version had such big changes in it. My apologies for mucking up your AAR.

So, back to the game!!!!

[Skyros]

Pax I don't think there are major changes made based on the readme file provided. Its most likely that the documentation has been update with information that was not known or became known over the years. Please keep commenting you have great insight along with everyone else in this forum. I also am not sure what version Mike is playing with.

[PaxMondo]

I remember when your oldest was 2 years old.

That would be my youngest, who just turned 16. My eldest turns 31? this year. Yeah +15 years between the two .... we were THAT close to being empty nesters ...

Now, yeah, we'll finally be empty nesters in a couple more years, but will I realize it?




{Dating myself badly above if you catch it ... can't ever get the voice outta my head either with the line. So classic ...}

[PaxMondo]

Pax I don't think there are major changes made based on the readme file provided. Its most likely that the documentation has been update with information that was not known or became known over the years. Please keep commenting you have great insight along with everyone else in this forum. I also am not sure what version Mike is playing with.

I consider the three we have identified so far to be HUGE game balance changes (Kanmon tunnel, level 8 AF doubling Air Support effectiveness, air support tied to engines as opposed aircraft). It isn't that they are wrong or cannot be reconciled historically, no issues there. It's that they impact/change game play significantly. So, I'm going to recuse myself from gameplay issues in this AAR because I simply don't know this version. There may be more items, documented or not, which in any case since I haven't played it I don't know. Better silence than stating something in error due to ignorance (which I have already done in this AAR to my regret and chagrin).

So, thank you for your kind words, but while I will happily lend encouragement to my fellow JFB, I won't comment further on the gameplay items.

[RangerJoe]

Pax I don't think there are major changes made based on the readme file provided. Its most likely that the documentation has been update with information that was not known or became known over the years. Please keep commenting you have great insight along with everyone else in this forum. I also am not sure what version Mike is playing with.

I consider the three we have identified so far to be HUGE game balance changes (Kanmon tunnel, level 8 AF doubling Air Support effectiveness, air support tied to engines as opposed aircraft). It isn't that they are wrong or cannot be reconciled historically, no issues there. It's that they impact/change game play significantly. So, I'm going to recuse myself from gameplay issues in this AAR because I simply don't know this version. There may be more items, documented or not, which in any case since I haven't played it I don't know. Better silence than stating something in error due to ignorance (which I have already done in this AAR to my regret and chagrin).

So, thank you for your kind words, but while I will happily lend encouragement to my fellow JFB, I won't comment further on the gameplay items.

I bought the game and updated it to the 2026 version so I learned from that point. A player who started long before that would have to go through all of the update logs and see what changed and when, so I have no problem with those people commenting about the game play. I even found a time when Alfred was incorrect! But that was because of a change and maybe he didn't remember that. You and others can also make a statement adding the "If I Recall Correctly" or IIRC tag, I do that when I can't/don't look in the manual and find it. The manual was also not updated for those updates either so that is not always helpful. What is very helpful is when those long time players do comment about strategy and tactics, the Japanese industrial system, and so on. I have also advised some of those long time players about things that they either did not know about nor even learned for themselves.

The AAR that got me interested in the game was when Greyjoy played the Allies and invaded Hokkaido in 1944.

I read Mike Solli's earlier AARs about the Japanese industry, ship production and changes, as well as the discussions on the various aircraft. I then referred other newer players to those AARs.

As far as the map changes, they are correcting errors in the original map. There is in this game no method to change the maps unless the players change the actual files and reload the game.

I have also beta tested the 2028 and found errors, other people found other errors, now those are being tested by Matrix testers.