The World at War ELO Tournament

[Umeu]

What is funny about my game with Elvis. While I have not played for 2 years I did not know about the strategy of allies attack against Italy NA from Tunis in early game (now I have read AAR and know that it is not first time used). So I had no plans or ideas to counter it. Just moved bombers and paratroops to Sicily planing to land on NA territory controlled by Italy from the game start. But after preparation of paratroops I just realized that this territory is out of my range. Just having no other options with 3 bombers (2 is enough) and para in Sicily i just attacked Vichy Tunis. For some reason it affected only USSR mobilization on 3%. Tunis port is under total control of German aviation and there is no problem to land germans through it. Thus, I guess such move totally counter the strategy of Allies attack from Tunis. Just lost few month nothing else.

Actually, it's only partially true. Germany can always take Tunis with paratroopers, but that's it. Unless you sneak in amphibious units, Axis can't land in Tunis port because the strat bomber can just control supply infinitely. That's actually one of the main reasons for doing this attack.

[ElvisJJonesRambo]

I was outta control. Landing in Syracuse, first, not Tripoli. I was completely outta control. There was no reason to take Bengazi, should have left, with the raid, been content on small drop to Italian morale. I surrounded Tobruk with a bunch of garbage units from India, South Africa, wherever, that were easily mopped up by Panzers. No reason to take all that risk in late 1940.

By the way, the game DmitryN and I, was played in record time. We both must have been on vacation, because we played to the end of 1942, in less that 2+ days real-time. Lol.

@Umeu --- Dude, you've taken the game to a different level. If you teach everyone your new openings and strategies, gonna change everything. Almost to a point of playing Chess. There are plenty of good player, but your study is insane on the combinations. Your Polish opening is crazy good. Now you've taken that to the 3rd in the Low Countries. There's no stopping it. Even if you get a couple "bad rolls", doesn't matter, in Poland. So it's two turns, so be it. The opening on Low Countries is sick. France could be gone at Christmas if you get weather.

[DmitryN]

ofc it defenetly could not be 2 days. it was about 40 turns so not less than 4-5 days I guess.Anyway agree it was fast. it totally disorganized my normal day order:)

[Umeu]

@Umeu --- Dude, you've taken the game to a different level. If you teach everyone your new openings and strategies, gonna change everything. Almost to a point of playing Chess. There are plenty of good player, but your study is insane on the combinations. Your Polish opening is crazy good. Now you've taken that to the 3rd in the Low Countries. There's no stopping it. Even if you get a couple "bad rolls", doesn't matter, in Poland. So it's two turns, so be it. The opening on Low Countries is sick. France could be gone at Christmas if you get weather.

Thanks! But I think once people are no longer caught off guard by it, it will not make such a big difference anymore, it’s just a slightly more optimized version of the normal early attack on France. Fall of France always roughly takes the same amount of turns at minimum in my experience, the early attack is just to make sure it doesn’t take longer. Fastest surrender I have achieved with it is February, but Dmitry gave up the defense of Paris, had he not done that, I would have needed 2 more turns. (Just quickly tried it out in hotseat mode again, and France didn’t fall until May, though Paris was taken in April, the first turn without snow in 1940. If weather is a bit better, Paris can maybe be taken in March and surrender in April. The answer to almost all Allied troubles are simply… defend further back )

You are right that the rolls you get are somewhat irrelevant, at least on your infantry. If you get a lucky roll on your med bomber, you can potentially move both tac bombers to France on t1. Moving 2 tanks should always be possible. Vs Dmitry I took poland on t2, vs you on t1. But because I already always move the units I need for Belgium and France there on t1, and operate 2 armies on t3, it doesn’t matter which turn Poland falls.

I wrote a guide in the war room (with a video of one of the variations to take warsaw t1 without tanks, but you can do t2 also like you said). You should give it a go! Maybe you find a way to improve it, like Petedalby did. I got most ideas from other players too, in the end.

[ElvisJJonesRambo]

@Umeu --- I will give you credit, call it the Umeu Opening. Like a chess move, there's nothing better. Really not a reason to do anything but that. I'm not gonna play against that. There's nothing France can do, except die. x2 Panzers, already Northwest Belgium. All the space, is opened up. It's not even about a drive to Paris, the British are pressed on Dunkirk and entire Northern corridor.

Need another House Rule or bid system. Might as well change the scenario.

[Umeu]

@Umeu --- I will give you credit, call it the Umeu Opening. Like a chess move, there's nothing better. Really not a reason to do anything but that. I'm not gonna play against that. There's nothing France can do, except die. x2 Panzers, already Northwest Belgium. All the space, is opened up. It's not even about a drive to Paris, the British are pressed on Dunkirk and entire Northern corridor.

Need another House Rule or bid system. Might as well change the scenario.

It's somewhat true, but in general, France cannot do anything but die. The question is just how much can they slow down their demise? Even vs an axis player that's (a lot) worse than the allied player, usually the allied player can not prevent the fall of France.

But beyond that, the main thing France needs to do is to not defend on the Belgian border. If they defend on the Marne, they hold until April at least. I've tested it many times. If there's anything I have learned from playing strategy games for years, it's that there's always a counter to the counter to the counter. And if there isn't, you're not playing a game, just a simulation. The Brits should be fully dug in on or near their spawns, though the BEF should go behind the Marne, in front of Paris, it'll likely fall. France also should rotate their armies out of the Maginot asap, they're useless there, and the corps have one more movement point, which is important to ensure a swift retreat when the moment inevitably comes.

[DavidDailey]

If the French send their Syrian and one Algerian corp, the Rhone river corps and abandon the Maginot Line and move the corps around Paris ( the idea being to force the Germans to destroy every French corps and armies before Paris falls) and use British North African units to cover Algeria and the Rhone river valley and use British garrison units also, surely the French can hang on at least to early summer. Do the Italians come in really early if the Germans have made an early penetration into France? If not, more units can be stuffed in front of Paris. Can this delay things?

[Umeu]

If the French send their Syrian and one Algerian corp, the Rhone river corps and abandon the Maginot Line and move the corps around Paris ( the idea being to force the Germans to destroy every French corps and armies before Paris falls) and use British North African units to cover Algeria and the Rhone river valley and use British garrison units also, surely the French can hang on at least to early summer. Do the Italians come in really early if the Germans have made an early penetration into France? If not, more units can be stuffed in front of Paris. Can this delay things?

Not sure what you mean by early summer, but yes, with favorable winter turns, the Allies can hold out till April or May, which is early summer I guess? I do always bring the Syrian and Algerian corps, and the Malta AA, but I don’t usually bring the Egyptians, which is risky now that the rest of the task force there spawns later.

As with anything in WaW, there is a +1/-1 variance. I’d say April has been standard for me, with March and May being possible but probable outliers. February has happened two times but the allies chose to evacuate the British early which greatly sped up the fall of Paris.

[DavidDailey]

Here is the thing. Every turn the Allies can hold out in France helps Russia. If France falls in April, even May the Germans have too much time to subdue Malta, invade North Africa, invade Greece, crush Yugoslavia, get Hungary, Rumania and Bulgaria as allies and build every panzer army in the force pool. Russia has no chance. The Allies must hold France into June and preferably July to give the Reds some breathing room.

[James Taylor]

Just play the 42 High Tide scenario; no gambits, little diplomacy, no early surrenders, a real slugfest from the first turn!

[Umeu]

Here is the thing. Every turn the Allies can hold out in France helps Russia. If France falls in April, even May the Germans have too much time to subdue Malta, invade North Africa, invade Greece, crush Yugoslavia, get Hungary, Rumania and Bulgaria as allies and build every panzer army in the force pool. Russia has no chance. The Allies must hold France into June and preferably July to give the Reds some breathing room.

You're definitely right that delaying the fall of France helps out Russia but I don't think their survival depends on it. They should be fine holding out on their own I believe. What's most important in France I think, is that UK doesn't take a beating in France, or if they do, that they indeed cause signifcant delays.

However, there are also small but not insignificant downsides to a delayed fall of France. It means US doesn't get a mobilization increase, and if it takes too long, then the option for bombers means choosing between US or France, rather than US or UK. UK is imo the best choice for that event.

[Pekkavilamoura]

ELO ends:
MerlinXL (Axis) LOSS vs. Pekkavilamoura (Allies) WIN.
Axis resigns Sept '44 after Germany and Italy surrender.
Axis very strong in the West putting enormous pressure on RN and the convoy lines. Spain joins Axis so pretty much in control of WE.
But obviously the focus in the West caused a delay in Eastern campaign preparations, Barbarossa starting straight into mud season. When Fall Blau started in '42 Red Army already strong enough to stop the advance on Don river line and the tide started turning.
Great game, rematch anytime!

[MerlinXL]

ELO ends:
MerlinXL (Axis) LOSS vs. Pekkavilamoura (Allies) WIN.
Axis resigns Sept '44 after Germany and Italy surrender.
Axis very strong in the West putting enormous pressure on RN and the convoy lines. Spain joins Axis so pretty much in control of WE.
But obviously the focus in the West caused a delay in Eastern campaign preparations, Barbarossa starting straight into mud season. When Fall Blau started in '42 Red Army already strong enough to stop the advance on Don river line and the tide started turning.
Great game, rematch anytime!

Poland surrendered on the first turn, but poor weather delayed Fall Gelb (Case Yellow) for the rest of the fall months. The rain finally stopped in December and the order was given to invade Belgium. However, the frozen terrain proved to be very difficult and the Wehrmacht just barely made their way into Brussels. The Wehrmacht was further plagued with snow, ice, rain and mud in western Europe for the next several months until May of 1940, when Paris was encircled. France finally surrendered on June 7th. In July of 1940, paratroopers were poised to snatch an easy port on the UK homeland. But aerial reconnaissance revealed a well defended UK homeland, and operation Sealion was shelved. Attention turned to the Mediterranean, pounding Malta into submission and an all out diplomatic effort to sway Spain. Malta fell in December of 1940, and Rommel pushed the British all the way to El Alamein. But the North African campaign stalled by September of 1941 and Spain did not join the Axis until October of 1941. Barbarossa was ready to launch in September, but bad weather postponed it until October. October was rainy but by that time, the USSR was already 89% mobilized and would probably be fully mobilize within another turn or two, so the order was given to proceed in spite of the bad weather. Progress was hampered by constant rain, snow, and mud all the way into April of 1942. Meanwhile, the USSR was getting stronger. The Army Group South advance stalled at the outskirts of Rostov, with Kharkov and Konotop firmly under German control. Army Group North and Central were ordered to hold the line from Kiev to Memel/Konigsberg where they were stretched pretty thin. And that was where Pekkavilamoura hit me pretty hard in July, 1942. Units were directed to shore up the defenses there, but by December of 1942, the USSR was able to punch through and exploit several breakthroughs. Even with the help of their Spanish Ally, there were too many holes in the line to plug. The USSR kept chipping away, and by March of 1943, the USSR advanced to the outskirts of Warsaw. By April of 1943, the USSR land forces had reached parity with the Germans. The next 16 months was a slow death by attrition amid several fierce encirclement battles.

Meanwhile, Rommel, despite having ample Luftwaffe support, was frustrated by sandstorms and had trouble getting past the bottleneck at El Alamein. But he was finally on the outskirts of Alexandria by May of 1943. With Malta and Gibraltar already under Axis control and several Royal Navy ships sunk, the British moral was getting very low. The plan was to drive it even lower by capturing the National Moral objectives of Alexandria and Cairo and then have Japan capture India as the final straw to force a UK surrender by zero-moral. By February of 1943, the IJN was in control of the Bay of Bengal, allowing the IJA to launch successful amphibious landings along the east coast of India. Both China and India were very weak at this point, down to around 10 land units each. But the forever-rainy season in southeast Asia made for a very slow slog, and the IJA invasion of India stalled on the outskirts of Bombay and Calcutta. By November of 1943, the garrison in Bombay was actually destroyed but alas, could not be occupied (should've had a paratrooper ready to drop in!) And the very next month, the USSR invaded Manchukuo, which diverted IJA resources away from finishing off India and China.

The Kriegsmarine and IJN punched above their weight, and for a while, the U-boats were sinking tons of MPPs headed to the UK and USSR. But enough USA aid was getting through, and eventually, too many German MPPs were going towards replacing destroyed land units and not enough was left over to repair damage from the every increasing Allied anti-submarine campaign and deadly airpower. In the long run, the Axis is on the short end of the MPP stick and they didn't do enough in this game to tilt it more favorably. A big "what-if" for me is, if North Africa and India would've gone better for me, would that have been enough to make the UK surrender, and ultimately, lead on to an Axis victory?

At any rate, it was a very exciting game -- And even after the USSR declared war on Japan, I was hopeful that the IJA could hold them off long enough to finish off India and China. But alas, the USSR was too strong by that point, and Japan was stretched too thin on too many fronts (including an Allied invasion of DEI). Pekkavilamoura played an excellent game, countering my attacks with good defensive play and striking hard at my weaknesses. After I wrap up a couple of games-in-progress, I'll be looking forward to that rematch Pekkavilamoura has kindly offered.

-MerlinXL

[ElvisJJonesRambo]

[WIN] ElvisJJonesRambo (Axis) vs Jonny25k (Allies) --- Went the distance, scorecards in 1947. Allies spent their efforts on German with the x3 team, Germany fell in early 1946. Japan got out of control, held their territory and added China, India, Kuwait, Afghanistan, Australia. Later, Rising Sun gave back some territory except for China. Bloody action in Europe, posting the kill tables.

[wevilc]

Result

Old_Shane (axis) -v- wevilc (allies) - win for axis.

Learned a lot, but not enough. Well played Shane.

[wevilc]

New game:

Old Shane (axis) v wevilc (allies)

Hope springs eternal.