Incredible powerfull editor + Question for Bill or Hubert

[welk]

The more I work with the editor, the more I discover it's really a high powerfull tool to create his own wargames.

I am very surprized that nobody used the editor to build operationnal campagnes (Overlord only, Stalingrad only, Afrika campaign only, etc) : the system and ai are full adapted to these kinds of operationnel campaigns.

Or another conflicts (Middle-East 1967 - 1973, etc)

The only "black point" in the editor is the impossibility to affect each unit the sound we want : it's a very high limite in modding work.

Given the exceptional quality and incredible power of the editor, the fact that Hubert did not give us the ability to freely assign sounds to units is almost a professional misconduct on his part.

Would be great and cool if we could get this possibility in a future update

[Elessar2]

You have to do a workaround with sounds: make the relevant sound file, then rename it the exact name for that unit's default file slot, and drop the file into the scenario's /Sound folder.

[welk]

Yes, that's what I do.

The pb is that :
1/ some units share the same sound
2/ attribution of sound for each kind of unit is hard coded

You may replace the vanilla sounds without any difficulty (I use AUDACITY for that), but when 2 units share exactly the same sound (even they are different, with different parameters, different type, different graph, etc), you are blocked in modding

The tool I use for sounds does show that (see attached image):
Example : If I want to attribute to special forces units a move of tank sound and a arty attack sound, I can not do that, the sound attribution is hard coded.
Ok, I may change the sound move and/or the sound attack for special forces to give special forces a specific move and/or attack sound. But there will be a problem : some other units will be in bad way also affected by this change, because they share the same sounds than Special forces...

Other example : Tanks units and infantry units are differents, but they share exactly the same attack sound (and this sharing attribution is hard coded : no any possibility to change that, sound "Battle" is used for the both, there is no any "infantry attack sound" and no any "tank attack sound", juste "Battle sound", that is always used for the both. How can we mod sounds attack for tanks or infantry in different ways ? It's actually impossible.

Should have been better to create that sort of process in editor : for each unit, to create a windows liste where user may choice the exact sound he would want to attribute to this unit : it would be better to let him choice what he wants for move and for attack sound

The editor is really a great tool, it allows to work with detailled oob. The only 2 little things that should be changed (if possible...) are:
1- Sounds attribution is hardcoded
2- Type of units (target type code : hard, soft, etc) is also hard coded

TOOL_SOUNDS.png (233.59 KiB) Viewed 573 times

[Nginear]

It is a good editor, but not as powerful as you think. The reason there are not as many operational scenarios is because many parts of the game & editor are hard coded - you can't change them in any way. Several technologies are even locked into always affecting a specific unit in s specific way. The unit types and special abilities are hard coded too, which can limit imaginative options for your design. And the naval aspect has very limited added flexibility.

Still, some great works have been designed (I would like to think my scenarios are!). But to create a radical redesign requires just as much working around the rules as simple changes.

[welk]

Several technologies are even locked into always affecting a specific unit in s specific way.

What you say does interest me a lot in practical way for the battle mods I plane (Ancient battles actually, and later Napoleonic battles, and also later an old project : The first fightings of August 1914 at regimental/divisionnal scale, with adapted 3D graphs and deco).

Could you please indicate all technologies and units that are concerned ? (and how does work this connexion between concerned technologies and concerned units => will be usefull to avoid difficulties and errors in my mods)

The unit types and special abilities are hard coded too

Same question, please : could you indicate all theses special abilities, it will be usefull for me to examine that in details, to avoid errors and difficulties in my mods

concerning the hard coded unit type, it's effectivly a high problem but I solved it in my case : I used a special approach in editor (research and upgrades configuration) that does limit difficulties for my battles mod, and it works in a good way.

EDIT : Just a precision => My questions does not concern naval units and air forces units, because I wwill never use naval aspects and air forces aspects of the game in my projects (just ground warfare in period of ancient times to August 1914)

[Nginear]

#RESEARCH_ID_0= Infantry Weapons
#RESEARCH_ID_1= Anti-Tank Weapons
#RESEARCH_ID_2= Advanced Tanks
#RESEARCH_ID_3= Advanced Fighters
#RESEARCH_ID_4= Heavy Bombers
#RESEARCH_ID_5= Naval Weaponry
#RESEARCH_ID_6= Long Range Aircraft
#RESEARCH_ID_7= Advanced Subs
#RESEARCH_ID_8= Artillery Weapons
#RESEARCH_ID_9= Rocket Weapons
#RESEARCH_ID_10= Ground Attack Weapons
#RESEARCH_ID_11= Mobility
#RESEARCH_ID_12= Anti-Submarine Warfare
#RESEARCH_ID_13= Anti-Aircraft Defense
#RESEARCH_ID_14= Command and Control
#RESEARCH_ID_15= Infantry Warfare
#RESEARCH_ID_16= Armored Warfare
#RESEARCH_ID_17= Aerial Warfare
#RESEARCH_ID_18= Naval Warfare
#RESEARCH_ID_19= Amphibious Warfare
#RESEARCH_ID_20= Trench Warfare
#RESEARCH_ID_21= Shell Production
#RESEARCH_ID_22= Synthetic Oil
#RESEARCH_ID_23= Spying and Intelligence
#RESEARCH_ID_24= Logistics
#RESEARCH_ID_25= Production Technology
#RESEARCH_ID_26= Industrial Technology


For the tech slots, many slots are tied to a specific box in the editor, a visual graphic slot, or the corresponding slot on a unit. This is more true for naval and air units (which you are not using), but can be occasionally true for ground units. Slot #7 is permanently linked to the sub diving chances, Slot #0 is linked to changing the graphics for all Infantry units, Slot3 is linked to changing the graphic unit of fighters, etc. The lesson here is don't rearrange tech slots just to group them together for convenience...you will likely affect things in weird ways. Keep tech slots the same if you can (for example, keep Infantry Weapons where it is. You can retitle it, but don't move it), and don't forget to set corresponding values to zero in the "Advanced Research Data" tab in the editor if you do change things. The boxes in the Advanced Research Data tab are only relevant for a few tech slots.

Beware: slot #21 (N/A in the game, but labeled Shell Production in the editor) is permanently hard coded to always increase the shell production for artillery, even if it is set to 0 in the editor. For example, if you use slot21 for "Extra Shields," set the level to 2 max, set it to increase the defense ratings of a unit, then it will increase the shell supply of ALL artillery units AND the defense rating of a unit. If you use that slot, only use it for artillery for its original purpose. It is hard coded, Elessar2 and I have been asking for years to unlink it, but it is still locked. It is usually best to leave this one alone.

For unique unit characteristics, these are the things you learn over time playing the game. Rockets and trains cannot leave the continent where they built, only Special Forces units can amphib while not in a port, ground units only attack naval units if it is in port, artillery can damage naval units in the ocean, Medium Bombers only attack the resource if there is no enemy land unit, strategic bombers attack the resource first, etc. You can change numbers for these units all you want, but their behavior is hard coded and you cannot change that.

Slots 0-13 are upgrades for units (these upgrades have to be purchased individually for each unit); Slots 14-26 are automatic upgrades only (they affect all units with no upgrades needed).

Hope this helps some and good luck! Making a mod is very time consuming!

[welk]

Thanks a lot for these infos, very interessant, and I will try to take care with that in my modding work

If you have other informations, they are welcome

And yes, modding need lot of time, but it's also highly exciting

[welk]

The more I work in editor, the more I discover that there are 2 great difficulties in modding with (even if the editor is a great tool, these 2 aspects are really problematics) :

1/ Impossible to change units type : hard, soft, etc
2/ Impossible to change attribution of sounds to units.

Would be more better if modders could change sound and type of all units : it would give more flexibility in modding work.

Question for Bill or Hubert : is there a high and absolutly needed reason to have this rigid system ? If not, to change that would give a really high advantage in modding and design work. In editor, a special menu could offer choice of sound and choice of type for each unit (this choice could be a "general choice" = not separatly for each country). The most part of editor is higly flexible, only these 2 aspects have a problematic rigidity.

If it was too complicated, perhaps at least would be interessant to allow to change sounds and some particular unit types : by example, to change between hard units type and soft unit type.

In addition, a suggestion for incrementation system : for research incrementations (power levels) that work from 0.5 to 0.5, would be interessant to have incrementation from 0.25 to 0.25 in place of 0.5 to 0,5 actual system (it would give more flexibility in progression of units quality/level). In the actual system, if you want to use the 6 levels (sometimes it's better to use the 6 than to use less), you use obligatory a large 2,5 minimal variation (0.5 x 5) in place to have choice (if prefered) to limit the minimal variation at 1,25 (0.25 x 5) with the 0.25 system I suggest.

[Elessar2]

The unit classifications are for the benefit of the AI, tl;dr.

I'd prefer finer gradations for many of the parameters in the game, but the devs have changed a few for me over the years.

[welk]

The unit classifications are for the benefit of the AI, tl;dr.

Yes, it's probably a great help for AI. But there is no any contradiction between this utility and the fact to let users to change the type of a unit : Attributes/competences of hard, soft, etc could be definited as "principes", and inclusion of each unit in one of the limited definited type could be decided by user himself

I'd prefer finer gradations for many of the parameters in the game, but the devs have changed a few for me over the years.

Yes, finer gradation of 0.25 would be more better than 0.5 gradations (0.5 x 5 levels is a too "hard" gradation).

Howewer, in my modder/gamer carreer, I did not encoutered a so good and detailled editor (excepted perhaps the editor tools made by gamers for Age of Empire). Just these 3 things would be great : to be able to attribute types and sounds, and 0.25 gradation in place of 0.5.