Now I can see how great this game is...

[vinnland]

Originally, I dismissed this game because it didn't run "smoothly".

But, after a few computer war games, I got into board games. And I loved the board games, they are a good teacher in why learning the rules are important.

Anyway, now that I have played board games, I can appreciate computer war games from a different lens. And I think TOAW4 is the closest thing to "computer war game that's like a board game, and a very good one".

[broccolini]

It was one of the first, if not the first, to convert those old Avalon hill, SPI etc. games a lot of people played as kids, to the computer. The first version came out in the 1990's. When all that stuff was being put on computers for the first time.

[Cpl GAC]

I found the measure of how TOAW crushed board games is that one of the great monster games of the 1970s, Drang Nach Osten/Unentschieden, took up a ping-pong table and it is replicated in TOAW in more of a medium sized scenario.

Same scale, solitaire play, better map, a better simulation, better rules consistency/application, editable.

[Curtis Lemay]

I found the measure of how TOAW crushed board games is that one of the great monster games of the 1970s, Drang Nach Osten/Unentschieden, took up a ping-pong table and it is replicated in TOAW in more of a medium sized scenario.

Same scale, solitaire play, better map, a better simulation, better rules consistency/application, editable.

Was that board game keeping track of individual vehicles, guns and squads?

[Simon Edmonds]

I was a bit young to own Drang Nach Osten / Unentscheiden but I had the next iteration Fire in the East / Scorched Earth / Urals and I remember how long it took to set up the pieces and reinforcement boxes for each game. And god forbid if someone bumped the table. Imagine the map set for D21 or FitE 2. You would need to have the back yard covered over and be suspended from the roof to reach the counters. TOAW rocks!

[Cpl GAC]

Was that board game keeping track of individual vehicles, guns and squads?

Exactly - that's why TOAW crushes boardgames. Immeasurably better in every category.

[golden delicious]

Was that board game keeping track of individual vehicles, guns and squads?

What this really does for the game is take away the calculations that a player makes a board game. You're no longer looking at your pieces and working out how to get into that magic 4:1 attack odds column; this is a totally artificial process. Instead you need to get a feel for what your force is capable of and go with your gut. That's what a real commander does.

[Curtis Lemay]

Was that board game keeping track of individual vehicles, guns and squads?

What this really does for the game is take away the calculations that a player makes a board game. You're no longer looking at your pieces and working out how to get into that magic 4:1 attack odds column; this is a totally artificial process. Instead you need to get a feel for what your force is capable of and go with your gut. That's what a real commander does.

+1

[Jeremy Mac Donald]

Was that board game keeping track of individual vehicles, guns and squads?

What this really does for the game is take away the calculations that a player makes a board game. You're no longer looking at your pieces and working out how to get into that magic 4:1 attack odds column; this is a totally artificial process. Instead you need to get a feel for what your force is capable of and go with your gut. That's what a real commander does.

Yeah - this is the real magic. Somehow the game introduced so many numbers that trying to use them became impossible. There is so much science of war that the only way to handle it is to treat it like the art of war. There is no way for a human to number crunch their way forward. I don't even look at the odds when setting up attacks. It is not a worthwhile piece of information.

[Slowcoach01]

Many of the posts in this thread resonate with me as I had a similar experience. I was into board wargames back in the 1970's although not really the monster games. The closest I came was when a friend of mine bought DNO/Unentscheiden as a challenge and we spent an entire day just SETTING IT UP! The map had to be on the floor as it was too big for any table (my back and knees wouldn't cope with that these days). Then we stood back and admired the scale of it. But there was no chance of ever actually playing a game. TOAW does at least make that size of game potentially playable - if you have a few months of real time to spare.

I almost missed the full, great TOAW experience though because, having bought Volume One about 26 years ago, I just couldn't get into it. At that stage I found the rule book impenetrable, the UI unhelpful and the graphics unclear. Having 3 very small children at the time probably didn't help either.

It was only after seeing Matrix's 'last call' to buy the physical edition in early 2025 that I finally took the plunge and tried again. This time it was a different story. TOAW4 is such a huge improvement on Volume One - especially with having the hardback, full colour manual. I love the tactile experience and it's easy to have a browse without being accused of 'playing games on the computer all the time'! Granted, the physical DVD is pretty useless these days (no DVD drive on the PC any more) although it's nice to have my serial number, order date and name printed on the disk. Now I can re-live that 1970's experience (improved) and even try those obscure battles/wars that interested me back then but for which I never had the time, money or space to buy multiple physical games.

In fact, since buying TOAW4 last year I've played nothing else and am still thoroughly enjoying it.

[Cpl GAC]

If/when we can move Units between Formations I might explode.

Look at everything going on here - the amount of information that gets processed and the mods that are available is amazing. You can see things like where Elmer pocketed me on the left side.

Screenshot (96).png (2.01 MiB) Viewed 250 times

It is a great great game.

[golden delicious]

Look at everything going on here - the amount of information that gets processed and the mods that are available is amazing. You can see things like where Elmer pocketed me on the left side.

Whoever designed this scenario sure loves grey. How about some contrast so I can tell what the heck I'm looking at?

[Cpl GAC]

Whoever designed this scenario sure loves grey. How about some contrast so I can tell what the heck I'm looking at?

You are correct - this fails Web Content Accessibility Guidelines (WCAG) - and is therefore not well designed;

Screenshot (97).png (47.26 KiB) Viewed 210 times

Using uniform colors doesn't translate well. I discussed that here;

Developing the color palette

Final note - ... but people who are color blind or with other visual limitations also play this game, so that needs to be accounted for.

Good news - you can kill two birds with one stone here; https://venngage.com/tools/accessible-c ... -generator .

But - this version I'm playing works for me. Which is one of the reasons why this game is so great.