SCOUT attacks's - Combat intensity

[Wiedrock]

Running the same attack 40'ish times with the following setup.

Combatpredictor_1.jpg (833.64 KiB) Viewed 1113 times

The usual results looked like this. We had about 20% HELD attacks (none "halted at range"). Note the hit Soviets DAM/DES/DIS.
Usually we got around ~350-500 Soviet elements hit.

Combatpredictor_usual results.jpg (807.43 KiB) Viewed 1113 times

After this 40 runs I got the first SCOUT.
Note the hit Soviet elements. We went from 350-500 to 1059, more than Double (sometimes triple).

SCOUT Manual.jpg (364.88 KiB) Viewed 1113 times

We have established a while ago that in some (~about 50%~) Hasty attacks the Artillery SUs are not firing at all. But even if they fire it does not reach such levels of hitting.
Since the SCOUT is defined before combat takes place (I can't make sense of this), it seems to bypass some of the Hasty-limiting combat performance effects.
Not sure what the manual is referring to when it speaks of: "will result in reduced fighting and losses on both sides", but that seems not like what is happening if you compare it to a Hasty attack of any kind.

Since the setup with the two Divisions is so hard to get to become a SCOUT, following an example of a single Division. We see the same behaviour of rather large hitting compared to normal hasties.

SCOUT single Div.jpg (269.04 KiB) Viewed 1113 times

[Wiedrock]

As a comparison - here the double Division attack as a Deliberate Attack.
The total of the DAM/DES/DIS is 1051 elements, same as the SCOUT?!
Again: "will result in reduced fighting and losses on both sides" ...compared to what?

SCOUT vs Deliberate.jpg (279.77 KiB) Viewed 1112 times

[Joel Billings]

I don't know the exact specifics, but I thought that hasty attacks have less artillery bombardment. Perhaps in these cases, the Germans units are much better at causing disruption and losses than the defender (which is out in the open and not in forts). This means the higher shooting in a deliberate attack gets the Germans starting off well and they just shoot the heck out of the Soviet unit which doesn't cause much damage back. In a scout battle, the battle won't close to close range, but that doesn't matter if the Soviet units are low experience and/or already shot up and disrupted by the time the battle closes. Also, for units get a chance to shoot back if they are shot at and missed. The better their experience/morale, the better the chance they will shoot back. That's why those numbers are so important. Very low exp/morale units will shoot rarely, and when they do, they will likely miss, giving the better quality an extra chance to shoot and hurt the poor quality unit. These dynamics make it very hard to predict combat. Sometimes letting a defender shoot more will actually hurt it if it's got low exp/morale.

[Wiedrock]

Hobo also got an taste of SCOUT intensty.

[Wiedrock]

Here other examples of PvP games where SCOUT intensity causes ROUTS. The results are obv. only showing the ROUT but the finalCV show that it have all been SCOUTs.
For the two German examples (there are way more) you see the transfer from SCOUT to ROUT in the footage.

WitW_SCOUTs.png (27.64 KiB) Viewed 213 times

This is the WitW Living Manual. So the text for WitE2 was just copied. Now one would have to answer if it ever worked in WitW as described or whether SCOUTs had the same/similar performance as Deliberate attacks as well all along.

[Sammy5IsAlive]

Here other examples of PvP games where SCOUT intensity causes ROUTS. The results are obv. only showing the ROUT but the finalCV show that it have all been SCOUTs.
For the two German examples (there are way more) you see the transfer from SCOUT to ROUT in the footage.
WitW_SCOUTs.png
This is the WitW Living Manual. So the text for WitE2 was just copied. Now one would have to answer if it ever worked in WitW as described or whether SCOUTs had the same/similar performance as Deliberate attacks as well all along.

These look like the battle you usually get on T1 when taking Riga? IIRC the soviet unit routs because it goes below a certain TOE threshold - even though the combat odd aren't good enough for a 'true' win.

[Wiedrock]

Yes, the ROUT most likely is triggered in such a way. But the TOE shouldn't go that low and it wouldn't if the SCOUT wouldn't perform as if it was a deliberate attack. If the manual is right on what it writes about SCOUTs the intensity is likely bugged.
Or the manual is wrong since WitW.

I mean, realistically you can either go hasty(halve-assed), scout(tried, but too weak and too smart to waste men, so you get intel and retreat) or go balls to the walls. Somehow the latter two seem to be the same in terms of intensity.

[Joel Billings]

Could have something to do with the fact that the direct fire system allows units that are shot at to often fire back. They have to pass a skill roll, something early war German units are good at. So bad defending Soviet troops that are lucky enough to fire, but then miss entirely because they have low skill, leads to high losses when the good attacking units fire back. I'm just guessing, but this isn't anything that's going to be changed.