Question about IS 2 and 122 mm gun

lnp4668 · Post by **lnp4668** » Fri Aug 24, 2001 4:28 pm

Originally posted by Tommy:

Larry & Casper,

This is getting confusing. I have the MCNA, but I read on this forum that it is ver 5 on the OOB.

Tommy

MCNA comes with version 5.1 (or 5.3 if you gets the disks late) Lost Victories will come with 7.0

Christian Blex · Post by **Christian Blex** » Fri Aug 24, 2001 5:46 pm

There is a v7.06b (=Beta)mech.exe patch out there (against those nasty yugos). I also got the OOB's for ver7. However they are also still Beta and I found some strange settings. So I would wait until the final OOB's for ver.7 come out.

Tommy · Post by **Tommy** » Fri Aug 24, 2001 5:52 pm

Originally posted by john g:

Use the spwaweditor and look at any nationality, change to formations, the first formation, which is your A0 unit, will list the oob version.
thanks, John.

Thanks John. I wondered where that was marked. I have ver 5.2

Tommy

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Fri Aug 24, 2001 8:33 pm

PLease list any OOB problems, errors, whatever, up on the TOE/OOB forum.

THANKS!

Scharfschütze · Post by **Scharfschütze** » Tue Aug 28, 2001 1:05 am

Personally, I prefer the ISU-122, which has better accuracy and penetration and also carries more ammunition. Problem is: you just cannot fight Tigers or Panthers or even JPz/Pz-IV´s head on. They have a higher rate of fire and will hit you when you don´t. The soviet tanks, mainly the IS variants and especially the T-34/85, should be cheaper to purchase. Even when playing sneaky, its about 3 for 1 Tiger, and that is with the germans moving your way. Typical situation: You sit concealed, the Tigers rush past, you move to the edge of the woods (wait a turn to shoot more accurately and pray not to get spotted), then start firing, miss, get a bounce, they return fire and pop your tanks with their first shots, ruining turns of preparation. I´ve resorted to fighting them with infantry completely, only bringing my tank reseves in when they are practically defeated. Doesn´t work with an enemy who is not coming to your infantry positions, though...

panda124c · Post by **panda124c** » Tue Aug 28, 2001 3:33 pm

Originally posted by Scharfschütze:
Personally, I prefer the ISU-122, which has better accuracy and penetration and also carries more ammunition. Problem is: you just cannot fight Tigers or Panthers or even JPz/Pz-IV´s head on. They have a higher rate of fire and will hit you when you don´t. The soviet tanks, mainly the IS variants and especially the T-34/85, should be cheaper to purchase. Even when playing sneaky, its about 3 for 1 Tiger, and that is with the germans moving your way. Typical situation: You sit concealed, the Tigers rush past, you move to the edge of the woods (wait a turn to shoot more accurately and pray not to get spotted), then start firing, miss, get a bounce, they return fire and pop your tanks with their first shots, ruining turns of preparation. I´ve resorted to fighting them with infantry completely, only bringing my tank reseves in when they are practically defeated. Doesn´t work with an enemy who is not coming to your infantry positions, though...

Now you know why the Russians tended to use LOTS of tanks. It's the old trick of run your enemy out of amunition then he is easy to destroy.
<img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

Jasper · Post by **Jasper** » Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:40 pm

Try OT-34 and carry a squad of infantry. They are much better at handling those nasty Tiger or even King Tiger at close range. Of course, unload ur infantry before going in for the heat. The infantry will revenge for ur lose if they dont made it.

As for long range, dont duel with the German tanks....they are superb at that range. I always try to fight German in forest area and blast any open area with rocket if possible or suitation permits.

Anybody duel German in open area is mad....I have 12 tanks knock out by a Tiger in open area.... <img src="frown.gif" border="0">

Scharfschütze · Post by **Scharfschütze** » Thu Aug 30, 2001 11:56 pm

OT-34... nasty thought! I tried a platoon of KV-8 a few games ago, but they were wiped out in their ill-chosen lurking position on my side of a hill. Never thought of using flame tanks again after that!

Btw, why not send the infantry in first to draw the opportunity fire, then finish with the flamegun?

Side note: In my current pbem I hust finished three of those accursed Tigers in my last turn, one with concentrated fire of four IS-2m, the next one took a lucky hit from 9 hexes away by a 85mm AA (accurate and deadly, the russian Acht-Acht (88)), the third was wasted by an attacking Sthurmovik. Now there only four Königstiger, a platoon of Panthers, whats left of the two Tiger platoons (got another one before), and the remnants of a Jpz-48 company to go.
Can´t tell you of what I got left here though, the enemy might be reading...

Jasper · Post by **Jasper** » Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:15 pm

Originally posted by Scharfschütze:
OT-34... nasty thought! I tried a platoon of KV-8 a few games ago, but they were wiped out in their ill-chosen lurking position on my side of a hill. Never thought of using flame tanks again after that!

Btw, why not send the infantry in first to draw the opportunity fire, then finish with the flamegun?

Side note: In my current pbem I hust finished three of those accursed Tigers in my last turn, one with concentrated fire of four IS-2m, the next one took a lucky hit from 9 hexes away by a 85mm AA (accurate and deadly, the russian Acht-Acht (88)), the third was wasted by an attacking Sthurmovik. Now there only four Königstiger, a platoon of Panthers, whats left of the two Tiger platoons (got another one before), and the remnants of a Jpz-48 company to go.
Can´t tell you of what I got left here though, the enemy might be reading...

The problem with KV8, is that it does not carry a 76 mm gun or later with 85mm and further to that it speed is too slow and it armour does not give sufficient protection against the 88 or 75L70 gun. The 45 mm gun carried by the KV 8 is too weak to destroy a Tiger and it HE is too small to really hurt those infantry in the forest. You need bigger gun like the 76.

A platoon of OT-34 can charge up to two hexes in a forest against a enemy tank but somehow, KV8 does not meet that requirement which is speed. To reduce enemy accurately, one of the factor was speed. I look at KV as big fat buffalo only good in the early stage of the war but one the PZ IV came with a long gun, it is quite useless tank after all. No wonder the Russian drop it out after KV 85. In fact, KV 85 was not what the Russian wanted but because the IS wasnt ready so they used it.

<img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

john g · Post by **john g** » Sun Sep 02, 2001 6:56 pm

Originally posted by Scharfschütze:

Btw, why not send the infantry in first to draw the opportunity fire, then finish with the flamegun?

You have to remember this isn't SP1-3. You can't draw all of a units op fire and then run right up next to it. With special opfire, a unit will fire until it runs out of ammo, its weapon breaks, it gets too suppressed to fire, or it runs out of targets.

Keep throwing infantry in front of it and it will keep firing, then it will fire as tanks close to it, or return fire roughly every other shot fired at it. If you want to approach a tank, dump arty on it until it is suppressed.
thanks, John.

Jasper · Post by **Jasper** » Sun Sep 02, 2001 8:39 pm

Originally posted by Scharfschütze:
OT-34... nasty thought! I tried a platoon of KV-8 a few games ago, but they were wiped out in their ill-chosen lurking position on my side of a hill. Never thought of using flame tanks again after that!

Btw, why not send the infantry in first to draw the opportunity fire, then finish with the flamegun?

Side note: In my current pbem I hust finished three of those accursed Tigers in my last turn, one with concentrated fire of four IS-2m, the next one took a lucky hit from 9 hexes away by a 85mm AA (accurate and deadly, the russian Acht-Acht (88)), the third was wasted by an attacking Sthurmovik. Now there only four Königstiger, a platoon of Panthers, whats left of the two Tiger platoons (got another one before), and the remnants of a Jpz-48 company to go.
Can´t tell you of what I got left here though, the enemy might be reading...

Normally, once your opponent after taking out your tank are so happy that he forward his tanks, this is to give time for your infantry to entrench and give a good assualt on the unit coming. I like Ruusian OT tanks, they can carried a full load of infantry or up to 6 units of RPG guys....these guys are the real forest or close terrain tank killer. The OT is sort of a diversion/transporter or maybe we would says, two main gun at a tiger is the advantage you have over them. At least 8 shots out of 10 will ensure a killed with the crewmen dead plus even if you miss or it didnt kill, the supression is good enough to route it.... <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

Scharfschütze · Post by **Scharfschütze** » Tue Sep 04, 2001 1:52 am

Originally posted by john g:

You have to remember this isn't SP1-3. You can't draw all of a units op fire and then run right up next to it. With special opfire, a unit will fire until it runs out of ammo, its weapon breaks, it gets too suppressed to fire, or it runs out of targets.

Keep throwing infantry in front of it and it will keep firing, then it will fire as tanks close to it, or return fire roughly every other shot fired at it. If you want to approach a tank, dump arty on it until it is suppressed.
thanks, John.

Thanks for the hint!
Now, this explains a lot: It is my basic approach to go out with an unit as far away from the enemy im trying to get, draw his fire, hope he will miss, and to repeat this until, finally, the closest (and best equipped for the task) unit delivers the killing blow unharassed. Seemed to work. Also, my tanks (at last the heavy ones like the IS-1/2) never fire more than two or three rounds. With infantry, i must admit, this has been a different story.
Another anecdote: In my current pbem (fighting in Stalingrad on the wonderful "Red Barricades" map by MM), I easily destroyed two (out of four)Stug33 with huge 15cm arty guns for streefighting, without them being able to return a single shot. So: What causes opportunity fire and what enables you to opfire? Rate of Fire seems to play a major role...

Thanks also to Casper: I will take your advice to heart. I´m not only a RPG-3 but also a PTRD fan, I just love those for busting SdKfz from nowhere!

john g · Post by **john g** » Tue Sep 04, 2001 5:58 am

Originally posted by Scharfschütze:

Thanks for the hint!
So: What causes opportunity fire and what enables you to opfire? Rate of Fire seems to play a major role...

The higher the units experiance, the greater the chance it will fire. If it is in defence mode (C&C on) it gets a bonus towards op fire. The less shots it takes during it's turn, the more it has to start with in op fire.

Read sometime about the problems some Megacampaign players have with 2pdr at guns, they run their tanks up one after another with no infantry to spot the gun, and get tank after tank killed by an invisible gun. Give an AT gun crew a 100 exp and a good leader and it will take out tank after tank, Remember the 2 pdr was originally a naval design, it can fire as fast as you can throw shells into the breach, the auto eject takes care of the expended shell after firing.
thanks, John.

Jasper · Post by **Jasper** » Tue Sep 04, 2001 3:20 pm

Originally posted by john g:

The higher the units experiance, the greater the chance it will fire. If it is in defence mode (C&C on) it gets a bonus towards op fire. The less shots it takes during it's turn, the more it has to start with in op fire.

Read sometime about the problems some Megacampaign players have with 2pdr at guns, they run their tanks up one after another with no infantry to spot the gun, and get tank after tank killed by an invisible gun. Give an AT gun crew a 100 exp and a good leader and it will take out tank after tank, Remember the 2 pdr was originally a naval design, it can fire as fast as you can throw shells into the breach, the auto eject takes care of the expended shell after firing.
thanks, John.

That is why I dont understand alot of ppl look down on those light Artillery like 75mm FH and 81 motor. They are pretty good for suppression. I always have them to suppress those AT or other units infront of me. It is not necessary to kill but at least your unit will have a good chance of firing without any opp fire from the enemy. A 1 suppression is good enough to disrupt your accuracy......