Anyone here who wants to buy my Game?

[tsimmonds]

Pasternaski,

That's exactly what happened to me! Well, except for the names and a few other changes, if you talk about me the story's the same one. But mine involved a cranky satellite and GetRight installation that just did not want to start up again after it left off. Took me from Thursday night to Sunday noon to get up and running, but I'm there now and all is forgotten.....

[denisonh]

Bye

ORIGINAL: MG3

Who believes that:

first a company is not able to show you the exact taxes before you push "submit"

The same company doesnt use the right exchange rate when it is in their favor an they can gain a lot of money extra.

Oh- BTW, they got "only" 10$ more from me, since the US price is 69,99$.

So take this money and be glad for it, because I will never buy any product of this company again. Earned a few bucks- lost one potential customer of Close Assault and Combat Leader.

Case closed- have a nice day.

Plus, not clear why a digital download costs $69.99 but EUR64.99 (when the exchange rate is 1.20:1). For DD, surely prices should be the same? I have ordered HttR in a box from the UK warehouse, and am fine about paying a few $ more...the box had to be moved from the US to UK and then on to me in NL. More shipping = more $. No problem. But for DD? Surely your servers in the EU are not more expensive?

Simple solution...I'll get from US site for DD, from EU site for boxed stuff.

[MG3]

use your purchased software, have fun with it and act like a man ( and this game is PURE FUN ! ) or continue to cry like a baby and annoy the ppl here.

So its now "crying like a baby" and "annoying" people, when you ask about why the tax is only shown AFTER you have bought the game and to a absolutly strange exchange rate?

To make this clear once and for all: I would have payed 100$ for it, but not this way.

And as I see- there are many other people here who are interested in the clarification how the VAT, shop and exchange system work.

Oh, this thread has already the most hits... doh!

So many people who like this game but yet nobody wants to buy my version

[Bill Durrant]

Just my 2p worth:

I think we have a cultural difference here.
Euro against USA
In Europe we have VAT and it is universal. All our displayed prices are inclusive of tax. What you see is what you pay.
I admit to being surprised (and at first thought I was being conned) the first time I bought something in the States as the price came to more than on the display. My seasoned traveller companion kicked me and explained the situation of state tax before I made a fool of myself.
This just doesn't happen in Europe.
UK sellers of computers tried it some years ago arguing they advertised exc. VAT as they were selling to companies who didn't pay VAT. A few trades descriptions complaints got them to change their ways.
So, the Matrix store seems perfectly clear to USA residents - they all expect an extra tax to be added on to a displayed price. The Europeans find this abnormal.

Let me run a few words by you:

Lift = Elevator
Pavement = Sidewalk
Football = Soccer
etc etc etc

Nobody is wrong here - we just need to understand each others cultures - they are not the same, I mean fancy trying to make the world's biggest cup of tea in Boston Harbour (notice the U in Harbour, ColoUr, Uncommon ValoUr)[:D][:D][:D]

Right - back to some great computer wargames worth every penny[:)]

[MG3]

Bill Durrant

That with the excluted tax is new to me, but what use is the Euroshop then other then higher prices?

Oh, I am selfemployed BTW- when my prices are also without tax, they are added afterwards. But you can see how much so you know what you have to pay.

Anyway, I guess they will get a better system soon.

[David Heath]

When we put up the store a few months back there was nothing we could change on how the VAT was charged. That may have changed now and we do want our Euro customers to buy our games the way they would find it in a local shop at home. I must admit this has not been an easy task[8|] MG3 please consider yourself on my personal to do list and I will be getting back to you once I have some more answers.

David

[Arnir]

The VAT should be made clear by DR. The final price should always be made quite clear before any purchase is finalized. I'm sure Matrix will do their utmost to get this problem taken care off.

However, even it it seems unfair, and might be unfair, the same product often sells for different prices in different countries. Just because a Norwegian can buy product X at price y (ignoring taxes) doesn't mean an American can expect to pay price y. Different markets support different prices. Different markets have different costs for the business. I've heard that a lot of software in parts of Asia sells for much less then in NA (and I do mean the legal copies). Doesn't make me happy to pay more, but if the price is fair for my market then I'll pay it.

I can understand being mad about the VAT, but if the price said 64.99 Euro, then that's what it was. The only surefire way to guarantee that you will pay the US price is to live in the US. Fair? Who knows? But that's the way it is.

No one likes to feel like they have been conned but taking a deep breath and putting things in perspective is about all one can do. None of this is meant to be insulting so please don't take it that way.

[Charles2222]

ORIGINAL: MG3

I agree that this link might not be very prominent (and we will look into making it more apparent) to everybody. But it is also your responsibility as a customer to read everything that is promted to you on the screen.

Sorry for the hazzles.

But I still would like to hear an explaintion how a digital download suddenly becomes 1/4 more expensive when you download it from Germany instead of the US (which are propably the same servers anyway).

And I love the clarification of the VAT price a lot:

Notice people, there's no indication about what VAT is. It may be necessary to access it 'after' the purchase, but the customer needs some form of warning that what he sees on the screen isn't the total cost. If I saw that VAT screen on any of my US purchases I'd completely ignore it. When's the last time any of us bought a product, had it taxed, had it totalled, and then as we're walking out, "Oh there's a luxury tax or some such on it you need to pay too". I don't think most of us are used to that sort of scenario. How about "WARNING - THIS IS NOT YOUR TRUE TOTAL COST - read this link:.

[TheHellPatrol]

ORIGINAL: MG3

Great, so maybe there should be a big warning sign below the EU flag: "warning: additional costs hidden inside".

[X(] The big warning should read:" It's your credit card, use it responsibly. Think before you click...it's YOUR money! "

[AlbA]

As I had abortive attempts to purchase DD and on the phone to UK based DR I can confirm that *even* on the phone the DR staff will tell you, "the price for this is 39.99" - that's sterling, not euros or $ of any persuasion and does not include the 17.5% tax. Note, as previously stated, that we're used to paying a bottom line which includes tax or if prices are stated excluding this then it has to be prominently displayed usually EXCL VAT and certainly before you commit to purchase. My attempts to buy DD or over the phone were both foiled due to DR's setup - which I believe is flawed but nothing to do with this pricing argument, read in THIS THREAD if you're interested.

BUT, I will say that if anyone is feeling hard done to or misold then it's patently obvious that the people at Matrix are eons away from the common, faceless, prevalent, internet merchants with whom you can hope for no discussion and no review and no recourse. It seems to me, naive noob as I am, that these guys mean business and by that mean to do it in a proper fashion.

The exchange differences do sting so for that I feel MG3's pain. However, remember the tenet of three (sic) sure things in life: death; taxes and always leaving some squadrons mistakenly on "Training". Caveat emptor indeed but let the sellers beware that you shouldn't bite the hand that feeds you! And that's quite enough cliches, sayings and quotes from me!

[Hartley]

Why the heck do you need a 'Euro shop', or a company with 'Euro roots' ?

The whole point of digital download is the ablity to buy from anywhere in the world, as long as you have an international credit card.


In the past, I orderd stuff from places like Amazon.com- when outside the US -and never had Amazon charge any taxes.

[Charles2222]

Am I mistaken in thinking that if DR were in the States, and he did a download only, that he wouldn't have a VAT? I'm not sure how DR being Euro helps the Euros is if it means instant VAT charge. Wouldn't a Euro be better off with DR and Matrix both in the US (as odd as that sounds)?

[RealChuckB]

Charles,

Yes, unfortunatly you are mistaken ...

There is a new EU Directive for VAT on electronically supplied services (2002/38/EC). Under this directive, every non-EU supplier has to charge a PRIVATE customer the respective VAT rate of the country where the customer resides.

On the other hand, a EU supplier ALWAYS has to chafrge a PRIVATE customer in the EU the VAT of the country where the supplier resides.

Therefore in the case of MG3 who lives in Germany: If the supplier is located in the EU, he has to charge MG3 16% VAT in Germany (Mehrwertsteuer) whereas if the supplier would be located in the UK, he has to charge 17,5% VAT in the UK.

One thing only Matrixgames and DR will know: Who is the supplier? If DR is acting as a reseller, they may sell if from the UK, but if Matrixgames is selling it themselves and DR is only a service provider, I see no way to sell it from insider the EU.

Another point is the totally correct assumption of some people here, that under EU law, which is very consumer-friendly, the customer has to see the total amount that he will be charged (INCLUDING VAT, and S&H) BEFORE he makes the decision to buy, otherwise there is a very high probability that NO valid contract is formed between the parties.

Chuck

[gunnergoz]

I know people are worked up about this, but I'll bet that nowhere in Matrix's business plan or charter, is there a phrase like "Be sure to bilk foreign customers out of every cent possible on exchange rates and that VAT thingie." The world of international commerce is, I suspect, pretty complex and Byzantine (pun intended.) I think that the posts left here by the Matrix staff make it pretty clear that they will try mightily to do their best for the customer. Let's let the dust settle a bit, hold a civil tongue, and see what comes out of all this fuss and feathers.

[freeboy]

Am I mistaken in thinking that if DR were in the States, and he did a download only, that he wouldn't have a VAT? I'm not sure how DR being Euro helps the Euros is if it means instant VAT charge. Wouldn't a Euro be better off with DR and Matrix both in the US (as odd as that sounds)?

ok.. they are primarily.. but Matrix maintains a Eurpean warehouse in England I believe... and really this issue is about comminication.. not just what happened but why and the bad will created.. I AM NOT BLAMING ANYONE

Matrix has very high standards... and my hope is that this end user can enjoy witp.. a truly fine product.. interesting that the head of this company is involved already goes to the point of respecting their customers.. for which I am glad I am one....

on a personal note my clients always get my best.. but not perfection/and we do not always agree...such is business. I personally don't by from one game publisher do to business choices they made ...

[rawink]

Someone explain to me why the EU is so great again? tax tax tax tax tax.. 17.5%??? HOLY COW! it's like a European Version of Massachusettes!

then again I am all for free and non-taxed trade between the US, Britain, Japan, South Korea, Poland, and Australia.. afterall.. what are friends and Allies for.. Friends in need are friends indeed.. If France or Germany wishes to purchase American goods or services? hmm I don't see a problem charging them a bit more for it..

if you aren't sure what I actually said between the lines here.. I can't clarify it on these boards.. but think about it and I am sure you'll figure it out [:@]

The EU has no problems making trade as difficult as possible for the US and other non-EU nations. The intent is to make members of the EU purchase FROM the EU. And I thought everyone was all for this great EU thing over there.. now thats it's become the monster that it has people whine about it.. and (Gasp) BLAME the US for it :0 It's all MATRIX's fault that the EU taxed this poor guy.. lol.. PLEASE. I didn't pay 17.5%.. then again I live in the US.. and if somebody tried to tax us 17.5% on goods, we would take them out of office..

Go talk to your buddies in France.. maybe they will wipe your tears.

[Hartford688]

Rawink

We're fine living here in the EU and paying taxes. Many thanks.

Am going on vacation to France in 2 weeks with my WitP manual. Will have a great time, nice place.

BTW, both EU and US have some pretty "interesting" ways of making trade difficult when it suits them.

No-one is saying it is Matrix's fault if they have to charge VAT. The issue is just how it was disclosed. Just small matter of wording, no more.

[RealChuckB]

Rawink,

Congratulations, great posting!

Good to know that our complicated world can still be so easily explained ... [8|]

Chuck

[Arnir]

Somehow I don't think that we really will gain anything by debating national and supranational tax policy in this thread.

[Didz]

ORIGINAL: MG3
But I still would like to hear an explaintion how a digital download suddenly becomes 1/4 more expensive when you download it from Germany instead of the US (which are propably the same servers anyway).

And I love the clarification of the VAT price a lot:

I must admit, as a European customer that screen is not clear. It is usual in Europe to show the full cost of an item before one agree's to purchase. This screen clearly doesn't.

It also worth noting that VAT is a UK tax and would not necessarily make sense to people in other European countries, in fact I'm not even sure that every European state has the same Value Added Tax system.

However, as I've mentioned elsewhere MG3 actually got off lightly. I've ordered products for delivery from the US and ended up paying twice the expected price due to tax and handling charges added by US shipping agents.

ACTUALLY: Looking at this screen again I think Matrix are in breach of UK contract law. The law in this country states that the customer must be advised of the full cost of an item before accepting the contract.

The screen shot above clearly states that the price of WiTP is 64,99 EUR, that Shipping & Hanlding is FREE and that the TOTAL price is 64.99 EUR. This clearly states that the total price which will be payable is 64.99 EUR. The note at the bottom of the screen states that a VAT Invoice can be viewed and printed at the end of the purchase but as normal retail practice is to deduct the VAT from the TOTAL price quoted a European would assume that this VAT Invoice would show 58.72 EUR + 6.27 VAT.

At the very least the word TOTAL ought to be changed to TOTAL EXCLUDING TAX and in the case of CD sales the shipping and handling ought to make it clear that the price quoted does no include shipping agents charges for collecting duty payable.

BTW: One reason I haven't purchased this game yet, and may not, is that its digital download. And as MG3 quite rightly points out without gaining physical ownership of the product one cannot return it or sell it on if not satisfied.