Not the game I was hoping for

[Cap Mandrake]

ORIGINAL: ggallagher

WITP Lite:

Roll 1 die....

If 1-5, US wins
On 6, Japan wins.

Now please move along, nothing more for you to see or comment on in this neighborhood.......

Hehe [:D]

[Joel Billings]

ORIGINAL: Capitaine


This isn't a game, it's a WWII Pacific Theater sandbox.

To make this more of a "game", we need some good operational scenarios. I'm not a scen. designer so I don't volunteer. [:'(]

This is the best description of WitP that I've seen. I agree with Capitaine, although there are many for whom the full campaign is a game, and the only game in town. For those that don't have time for the full campaign (and I bet there's a lot of people in that category), we provided the editors so gamers could create great operational scenarios like UV. I hope there are some industrious WitP owners out there that would like to share their historical knowledge and creativity with the rest of us.

[captskillet]

Play the Allies and let the Computer handle the ares of the map you dont want to mess with! I liked PacWar also when it came out along with all the other Grigsby creations but his latest(WITP) makes PacWar look like kids stuff.

[mccavage]

It is everything I'd hoped for so far and yes, I'm perfectly fine with the Grand Campaign taking months to play.

Hearts of Iron, Axis and Allies and World at War will all meet scaled down needs to one degree or another. This game is for people who have relatively few games and really play the wheels off the few that meet their preferences.

[nmzoomie]

I figure at 4 game days for each real time day I should finish the grand campaign as Japan in about 373 days. Now that is value for the money spent. I personally find that keeping a written log of objectives and task forces involved goes a long way toward keeping things from becoming overwhelming.

[Moose 4075]

So far, I'm finding that this game isn't what I hoped for either; my CD isn't here yet!!!

[Platoonist]

Me too! I'm camped out by the mailbox waiting. Then I can finally dump this stupid banner. [:D]

[CommC]

I agree with Kharkov for the most part.

But in terms where to go from here, for most of us more casual gamers, and speaking for myself, I will probably never play the grand campaign. But I am having a blast with the smaller scenarios, Coral Sea, Marianas and eventually I'll work up to Guadalcanal.

I think the key question here, is what if any modest changes are possible to make one week turns a possibility for the grand campaign. i.e assigning objectives to theater HQs, etc and a resource allocation system, etc. With a few minor tweaks, I think a really playable game of the grand campaign would be possible.

[pad152]

It really takes playing the game for about 20Hrs before you start to become comfortable with the game, maybe more if you never played Uncommon Valor. I've been playing the game from almost a week and I'm still finding new stuff I'didn't know and some things I'm still not sure of.

Don't give up yet!

The first turn is a real Bitch![:D]

Don't worry about production for the first 30days.
It really takes time to get you head around everything but when you do it's not ony fun but very very rewarding!

[brisd]

I don't regret my use of "fanatic" and consider myself one. PacWar and UV had a steep learning curve and I enjoyed them both, esp. PacWar. I figure I'm mastering WITP pretty well and haven't given up on it yet. I would have preferred less operational and more strategic, to concentrate on the STRATEGY and less on the endless mouse clicking all over the map. I prefer the grand strategy of the whole Pacific War and intend to play it (Scenario 15) 95% of the time. The game was advertised correctly and I knew what I was getting into having played UV before, so I am not complaining too much. I just wanted to add my opinion as I agree with alot of what the originator of this thread wrote. Now back to conquering Singapore! [8D]

[Moose 4075]

ORIGINAL: Platoonist

Me too! I'm camped out by the mailbox waiting. Then I can finally dump this stupid banner. [:D]

That banner is cool though. I really love the Fan Boy ones that I am seeing on the forum. But this one is almost as pretty, and is hilarious.

Anyhow, my two cents on the real topic here; I have never bought a Gary Grigsby game that I didn't like. Having said that I think his games could improve a little on making the details more manageable in the interface area. In something like WitP it might require changing the gameplay a little. 12 O'clock High for instance was pretty damn cool and covered a topic that is second in interest only to the Pacific War in my book. I played the game a great deal and enjoyed it, I felt there was room for improvement though in making it a little less laborious and more fun.

Hope I'm not sounding too critical I love these games, but I do feel they could be improved upon.

[mjjhnim]

I had same feeling about WITP. Too much... for couple of days.

But as I get the hang of it. I feel the management level design is very nice.

I specialy liked the max range limit on the level bombers. I no longer have to see them get

creamed by going against full CAP with no escort.

The supply aspect of the Game is really well done. I now thing of logistics first...

and it isn't really that complicated.

I love the totall aspect of the game when I need so much for the troops but can

deliever only a little...

ONLY one complaint with WITP is that the turns take too long. I have P4 processor with 512KB ram...

but the turns go too slow. I was hoping for UV speed, but all these data is well~~~

Can matrix guys make a patch which will make reduntant calculations gone?

for exampel, I run the game on two day turn, and I don't want to see ship crew train message for

each day. That kind of calculation can be done once in two day interval or three day interval.

I thing that kind of streamlining will not hurt the game play.

[Didz]

ORIGINAL: m10bob
If you are serious about a "WITP LITE",I strongly reccomend UV..It may also be considered a primer for WITP..I will take the time to play thru WITP and really doubt anybody can do it justice for another 6 months unless they are retired,etc..A turn or two a day will be just fine..[:)]

Lol: You can't suggest UV as an alternative to WiTP let alone PACWAR.

UV only covers an area about the equivalent of 'Carriers at War' and is even more anally-retentive than the description of WiTP. You get to spend hours pushing transport ships about whilst the omputer fights the battle.

What I don't understand is that I was assured WiTP was built on the same scale as PACWAR e.g. 60 miles per hex. So I don't understand why it has turned out so much more tedious to play. The only thing PACWAR needed was a face lift and better controls and it sounds instead like its been turned into an unplayable monster.

My understanding was that much of this detail can be ignored or switched over to computer management, so we human can get on with fighting the war instead of loading spam onto barges.

[markbroughton]

You get to spend hours pushing transport ships about whilst the computer fights the battle.

I have to say that one of the things that I find that makes UV so great and hopefully WITP is exactly this, the management of resources. I like the fact that my operations are hampered by lack of supplies or that I can choose to build supply at one area at the expense of another.

Logistics is something that a lot of wargames choose to ignore or deal with in some abstract way. I think UV got it spot on.

[Adnan Meshuggi]

hm, the WitP is a HUGE game...

for me only the whole campagin is really interesting, but maybe more starts of it... and some alternate history campagins, too (like in UV)

The whole production issue is disapointing, cause of its complexity (with dayly/monthly things mixed up) and the kind of user friendlyness of it (why can´t i go to the next base with the Production screen on ? and similar things)

But, if you want to do it better as the historical guys, you have "the" pac war game... everything else to do it better could be only in grafic or online realtime gaming of it...

To learn the game, i made a 42er campagin, with ultimate ressources and HUGE stockpiles for the japanese, also make some (many) ships come into action much earlier for both sides and learn how it works. Cause everybody should know that we now are beta-2 testers. Such complex game need patches, and to make it stable, it need a restart. So everything we do now, is learning.
In a few months we could start seriously ( my opinion).

Also, playing both sides is good to learn some lessons you can´t know before... (like asw and experience curves, etc...)

esp. the production is still irritating for me and i suggest that an "if you enlarge this you need more of that"-warning should be enabled.... at last at the general information screens (like "Warning, you produce too much xy, so everything else will be NOT produced!)
Also, i think the chance to enlarge the allied production should be given.... if i want more bombers and do not care about recce, why not ? I think the allied side, too should have the chance to speed up the ship production.

But anyway, WitP could also be played half computerizised, even if auto convoi is looking strange for me.... so i NEED micromanagement.

The land war too should be optimized (a frontline should be IN the game, so units can not run around with no problems...

but, WitP IS Pac War in 2004-style. It could be in parts better, customerfriendly, but hell ! we want it, we could make suggests and we have a few years of gameplay !

have fun with it ![:)]

[siRkid]

If you could be more specific, on how to make production more user friendly I will be happy to add you sujestions to the list. They need to contain as much detail as possible. What should the button be called, what screen should it show up on, what haens when you select it.....

[ravinhood]

This game is for people who have relatively few games and really play the wheels off the few that meet their preferences.

I think your statement should have said"

This game is for the FEW people who have relatively FEW games and really play the wheels off the FEW that meet their preferences.

This is definitely going to be a FEW people game.

[wodin]

Iknow full well this game will be to much for me. However out of curiosity I have purchase UV at £9.99. IF I like it then I might buy WiTP. Howver I have a big doubt that the detail and resource/production side isnt for me. Though I can see that to some its a dream come true.

WHy anyone would spend so much money on a game which after reading the forums is obviously very detailed and time consuming is beyond me.

Why anyone would knock this game for being so detialed is beyond me too. If you dont like it dont buy it. There are plenty of games due out which will cater for those who dont want so much detail.

[ZOOMIE1980]

ORIGINAL: Kharkov

First of all let me state that I loved Pac War, corny graphics and all! The complexity and depth of that gameplay perfectly complimented the scope of the pacific theatre. You could play a few hours a night and reach a conclusion to the war usually in a week or two. The complex stuff was hidden away from view, you concentrated on the strategic aspects of waging the war leaving the computer to work out the details. The game was fun!

Now we come to WITP....

What a chore! [:o] and Production? WTF! I need a maths degree to work out how to increase the production of Betty bombers! Going through several hundread bases (it certainly felt that) micro managing each one is not my idea of fun, more like a job and mind numbing boring one at that. It took me 3 hours just to do the first turn, then sat through 30 mins of gumph waiting for the computer to process it all. Guys, I have a life and cant afford to spend the next 5 years playing this.

Dont get me wrong, I WANT to like this game but hell, its trying its best to get uninstalled from my pc.

Its too much, I think thats the best way to say it. For such an epic war the level of detail is mind boggling and way too much to take in. Just looking at the Japanese homelands and the level of detail in the home islands gives me a headache never mind the other 90% of the map.

I realise that most of you guys here will love this game but for your average Jo on the street its a no no purchase.

Consider making a WITP lite version for us normal people along the same complexity of Pac War [;)] Not all of us have maths degrees, the memory of an elephant and the time available to play this game out.

Yes, it IS daunting, and many will find it overwhelming. I do kind of like the pace of PACWAR a bit better, but on the other hand, the one week turns made handing some details of big landings difficult. But the pace of this game is GLACIAL! It's a tradeoff. There are some things you can do to turn down the fire hose of a learning curve and melt the glacier a bit, though.

1) Go to three day turns

2) For your smaller bases that only need an occassional resupply, put them on the auto convoy system and the forget about them.

3) Put seldom played areas of the map under computer control

4) Forget about production as Japan. Once you have your auto convoy set up to move oil for resource bases, the default production pretty much follows historical patterns. Wait until you're done with your conquest phase and things settle down, then tweek with it. Also, wait for someone to post the specifics on increasing particular things, then copy them if that's also what you want.

[Black Cat]

Anyone that complains about WITP hasn`t played it much or isn`t into logical thought processes.

This program is not just a evolution in War Games, it is a Revoultion in Computer Simulations, much like Pac War was when introduced years ago and compared to the simple toys available then....and like PW it really does work and work well ( so far [;)] )

This Great Simulation can be whatever you want it to be in Game terms, play short scenarios, PBEM short scenarios, most areas on Computer Control, Auto Convoy or like me play the full Campaign on 1 day turns with all under human Control.

Make the Grand Stratigic decisions and then be the Area Commanders Staff putting the Operational Plans together, the men and ships and planes, and then step into the roll of Fleet Commander to implement the plan. Then take charge of a TF and sail into battle and win...or perhaps lose HMS Repulse and POW because the Area Commander ( you ) forgot to tell the Air Force commander ( you also [:D] ) to provide CAP for the use of ( you ) the Fleet Commander, who of course never thought of it on his own. ....emmm sounds somewhat like WW II in the Pacific to me.