OOB Comments

[Pascal_slith]

Unsure this has been mentioned, but the Catalina's endurance is somewhat suspect. The best source is at www.history.navy.mil where you can actually get the classified BuAer data sheets for many US Navy aircraft of WWII. The endurance should be a number closer to 1470 rather than the 1135 currently indicated...

[Tankerace]

Don't know if its been mentioned, but in the game the Soviet IL2 is called the Shturmovik, but its correct spelling is Sturmovik. It is prounounced Shturmovik, but spelled Sturmovik.

[Brady]

From the Bok 96 Rikko, L3Y1/2, In Japanese Naval Air Service, By Richard M. Bueschel.

Acording to the Book prety much every Japanese Naval Fighter and Atack,Partole or whatever unit had a pair of these asigned to them for suply and personanel transfer, also the following Units operated them:

12th paratroop transport 1940-42 Home Islands Davo Philipines Menado,Celebes,Keopang L1N then L2D.(Note 20 L2D3's droped Japanese Special Naval landing forces on Mendao in the Celebes).

South Eastern Fleat HQ 43-Feb. 45 Operated H6K,G6M1-L2,G4M1-L,L2D,H8K,L1N...Consolidation of transports assigned to various Naval Air Gropus at Rabaul to provide a transport pool in SOuth Eastern Fleet fro use of all units.

1006th trnasport 1 July 43-End of war Home Ilsnads L3Y,G6M1-L2,G4M

First Detachment Air Squadron 1938-40 L1N-L2D

Tsingtao Base 1938 - sept 1940.L1N- L2D

11th Transport Fleet 1942-End of war H6K,G6M1-L2,G4M1-L,L2D,H8K.

.........................

Note On Nell Unit that upgraded to Ki-67:

762nd, upgraded to the Ki-67, and P1Y, specialaised in Night atacks aganst shiping.

[hlw30024]

As the game goes to 1946 would like to see the F8F Bearcat and Skyraider, not to mention the Midway class as two (FDR and Midway) were commissioned in 1945

[Tankerace]

Was Coral Sea commissioned in '45 or '47? She could make a brief appearance, for appearance's sake anyway.

[tsimmonds]

Commission dates:

Midway 10/09/45
FDR 10/27/45
Coral Sea 10/14/47

[Tankerace]

Ah thats right. The FDR was originally named Coral Sea, but after FDR's death was renamed, and the third unit was renamed Coral Sea.

[jcjordan]

Not sure if it's been mentioned but didn't find it in search function but a couple of things that I've noticed in Scen 15 but would affect several other scenarios.
1) the Stranraer should have little or no production as it was being replaced by PBY Cats, it has 30/mo now & was never produced in any numbers anyway by Brit nor Can
2) the No120 RAAF should be Dutch pilots like the No18 RAAF - arrival & a/c type seem ok
3) where are the 10 Indian squadrons? - I saw a post where someone was going to do a custom scenario & put them in but didn't see them in database
4) The Chinese, from some of the research I've done, had more squadrons that would have participated in the game even though they kept a good bit of a/c to fight vs the Communist forces
5) Why have Communist China pilots when none are produced, also the French or are they hidden units that come about should Vietnam be invaded?
6) the Phillippines had another squadron or 2 in addition to the 6th FS - 1 recon/observation & bomber/FB squadron in use at the start
7) the Dutch air force seems understrength as well as unit sizes from the research I did but just about all units are there maybe 1 or 2 missing.

[grumbler]

Has anyone mentioned the replacement of general Yamashita Tomoyuki with "Saito, M." (whoever he was) in command of 25th Army in all the start of war scenarios? The Tiger of Malaya isn't even available as a replacement leader.

[2ndACR]

ORIGINAL: grumbler

Has anyone mentioned the replacement of general Yamashita Tomoyuki with "Saito, M." (whoever he was) in command of 25th Army in all the start of war scenarios? The Tiger of Malaya isn't even available as a replacement leader.

Goog grief yes!!!!! I can not remember who it was screaming about it, but he started about 3 threads and said it in every thread we had.

[pry]

Data Collected

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: jcjordan

...
6) the Phillippines had another squadron or 2 in addition to the 6th FS - 1 recon/observation & bomber/FB squadron in use at the start
...

The Philippine Army Air Corps had a total of 11 squadrons, only four of which were operational units. The remainder were Air Base, Depot, or Training units.

The only one of the operational squadrons with any significant equipment was the 6th, with 12 ex-USAAC P-26 fighters. The others:

5th (Photo) with 1 or two ex-civilian aircraft
9th (Observation) with a few small observation planes (O-46, etc) - too small for WITP
10th (Bomber) with two ex-USAAC B-10B

The PAF also had two P-6 Fighters and 1 Keystone B-3A Bomber - all only of use if they decided to open a museum.

[BPRE]

Hi,

I'm playing Scen. 15 started on ver. 1.21 and after 10 days I noticed that some of my UK/Commonwealth units had 76 mm AT guns.
They are originally equipped with 2pdr's which seems right. The upgrade path for the 2pdr (420) according to the Data Base Editor is to 57 mm AT (424) and from 57 mm AT to 76 mm AT (425).
At start of Scen. 15 the monthly production of 57 mm AT is 222 and 76 mm AT is 268. I don't have any details or sources but I guess that at least the 76 mm AT must be the Russian gun.
Don't think the US had any 76 mm guns at this stage of the war and I presume the British equivalent is the 17pdr.
Looks to me like there are a couple faults in this area:

• Shouldn't the upgrade path from 2pdr be the 6pdr AT gun? The build rate of the 6pdr is 1/month which seems reasonable since I guess they were all sent to the Middle East anyway.
• Does anybody know if the US 57 mm was produced this early or is this some kind of Russian gun too?

Please have a look at this.

Best regards
BPRE

[Herrbear]

ORIGINAL: Brady

G3M: Looks ok....(Though I nead to look at the endurance figures for it a bit closer with a range of 3,871 st. miles, an endurance of 1,500 seams off.),Cruse spead seams a tad High, listed at 184 mph the game has it at 203.

I agree about the Cruise speed. I also show that it appears you are modeling a combination of both the G3M2 Mod 22 an G3M3 Mod 23. The G3M3 started production in 1941. My figures come from Rene Francillon "Japanese Aircraft in the Pacific War" and David Donald, editor "The Complete Encyclopedia of World Aircraft.
G3M2 Mod 22 - MS 232 CS 173 Alt 29950 End 944 Rng Mi 2722 Rng Hx 45
G3M3 Mod 23 - MS 258 CS 184 Alt 33370 End 1262 Rng Mi 3871 Rng Hx 65


L3Y: Same as the Nell.

I have no comment on the L3Y. Cannot find a source that has any specifications.


G4M1: Endurance again neads to be looked at, with 3,749 miles listed and endurance at 1,500 in the game, crusing spead listed at 196 mph, game alows 226. Torpedo, could arguable considered internal, espichaly if the one the Jill carys is considered internal.

I agree. Francillon shows a Mx Range of 3749 and a CS of 196 making the End of 1148 even though the hex range still works out to 62.


G4M2:3,765 st miles listed, cruse spead listed at 196, game alows 226, endurance in game at 1,500. Their could be a valaid argument for replacing the Beam(blister/side) windo 7.7mm MG's with Type 99 20mm cannons. same note on torpedo stowage as above. Most of which also mounted the Type 99 MK II cannon, while the game shows type 99 MK I's. If this craft is intended to represent the mid war Betty the adation or use of the 7.7mm Nose gun should/could be switched to the 13.2mm type as was often fited for this time frame. The G4M2 should also be a bit more manuaverable than the G4M1 and this is not so in the game in fact it is the opset of how it should be.

I agree with Mx Range of 3749 and a CS of 196 instead of 226. That would make the End 1148 even though the hex range still works out to 62 or rounded up to 63. Again I would make the torpedo storage internal and increase the Mvr over the G4M1. I agree that it coud be shown with the 20mm on the sides giving a GV of 20 or 22 if one of the nose guns is changed to the 13.2 Type 2. I would not change the 20's though to the Mod 2.


G4M2e: See notes above on cruse spead, also I dont see any referances showing that the range was so drasticaly impacted for this model when carrying the Ohka, game show 700 for endurance.

Considering that the CS is overstated, if it is changed to 196 then your End should change to 830 to match what you show as the range. Also, the 20mm should be the Mod 2 for this aircraft.


P1Y: Listed range is given at 1,192-3,338 (normal-Max), cruse spead is given at 230 mph, game has 260, with an endurance of 630 in game, at glance somthing seams off espichaly when compared to the figures given above for the Bettys. Also This plane should be Torpedo Capable and it is not in the game.

I agree with Brady. If you use the Mx Rng of 3338 st. miles gives you and endurance of 871 for a cruise speed of 230. Hx Rng = 56. If you consider this to be the "b" version, the GV could be upgraded to 12 to show 1x20 and 2x13mm.


C5M: Should be 7.7mm Type 92 MG not Type 89.

I agree on the 7.7 and that should apply to the Ki-15 as well. I show that the range is overstated on the C5M. Francillon and Weale indicates that the due to the additional equipment that the c5M weighed more than the Ki-15 causing the lower range. Assuming the game CS of 199
C5M1 - MS 291 CS 199 Alt 27000 Clmb 2030 End 219 Rng Mi 725 Rng Hx 12
C5M2 - MS 298 CS 199 Alt 31430 Clmb 2482 End 208 Rng Mi 691 Rng Hx 12


H6K4: Cruse spead listed at 138 (matches value given in game), Game endurance given as 1,400, Normal/Max range; 2,981/3,779 miles.Torpedos should be external, not internal. Max Load should be 2(1,764)=3,528, game alows for 2,205....now this is only a factor if the later figure impacts the planes abaility to cary two torps as it would on a torp run, it could cary the two torps or 2,205 pounds of bombs.

I agree. Based on the Mx Range of 3779 would make End 1643 and a Mx Hx Rng of 63.


H8K:4,445 miles listed as max range, cruse spead given as 184, game alows 1440 for endurance...wtf?....Torpedos should be external, not internal as listed, their should be also more 7.7mm Type 92 mg's at least 4 more two per side this in adation to to the listed in game aramement.

While only picking nits here, a range of 4445 at CS of 184 = End of 1440 still showing 74 hexes for the range. Yes the GV should be upgraded to 30. Arm = 1 x 20 (F, TT, R); 2x 20 (S); 1x7.7 (BR); 4x7.7 (S) - These are in the fuselange sides and the cockpit hatches.


H6K2-L: See notes above on H6K.

My sources are:
Rene Francillon "Japanese Aircraft in the Pacific War"
David Donald, editor "The Complete Encyclopedia of World Aircraft
Elke C. Weale, et al "Combat Aircraft of World War II"

[Tankerace]

The GB 6pdr and the US M5 57mm ATG are basically the same weapon, and are not variants of the Russian 57mm ATG. The Brits developed the 6pdr, and then the US copied it and began producing it a few months after the Brits did.

[SpitfireIX]

Version 1.21 Scenario 15

VMSB-231 should start on 12/7/41, with 18 Vindicators aboard Lexington, and a detachment of six more at PH. (And VMSB squadrons should have a max a/c of 24). In March 1942, VMSB-231 was split, with half the squadron leaving to transition to SBDs and form the nucleus of a new squadron, and half staying at Midway with the remaining Vindicators. Oddly enough, the half that stayed active was redesignated VMSB-241, and the half that was stood down retained the old squadron number. I know that WitP doesn't support changing unit designations during the game, so I suggest that as a fix, have VMSB-241 appear at PH with SBDs at the time VMSB-231 currently does in the database. This will give the USMC the correctly equipped units at the correct times--just the squadron numbers will be reversed. And it will quickly become irrelevant as VMSB-231 upgrades to SBDs. Finally, if having a Marine air unit start aboard a carrier is some kind of problem, the next-best solution would be to have VMSB-231 start at Midway (though historically the Lex took them back to PH).

http://www.vought.com/heritage/special/html/ssb2u2.html

Correct air groups for US CVs:

Lexington:

VF-2 16 x F2A
VB-2 15 x SBD
VS-2 15 x SBD
VT-2 12 x TBD
(Plus VMSB-231--see above)

Saratoga:

VF-3 19 x F4F
VB-3 21 x SBD
VS-3 22 x SBD
VT-3 12 x TBD
(note--I'm pretty sure the 7 x F4F-3 in the linked page is supposed to be 17--there are a couple of other obvious typos)


Enterprise:

VF-6 16 x F4F
VB-6 17 x SBD
VS-6 18 x SBD
VT-6 18 x TBD

Enterprise should be closer to PH--she launched her scouts to fly in ahead of her; five or six were shot down by the Japanese or by "friendly" flak; several others were damaged. IMO, the best way to simulate this would be to have VS-6 start at PH--the damage the planes would take from being caught on the runway should approximate what happened historically.

http://www.bluejacket.com/ww2_12-07-41_carriers.html

Also, where are the Marine Engineer Regiments? The 2nd was at Pearl Harbor on 12/7/41.

http://www.bluejacket.com/ww2_12-07-41_usmc.html

Minneapolis, Chandler, Hovey, Boggs, and Lamberton should start in a TF one hex south of PH. (Unless these ships were deliberately made reinforcements to avoid attracting KB's attention)

http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/pha/misc/non-ph.html

Waters should be available on 12/7/41 at San Diego--she escorted Saratoga to PH. Alternatively, if you want to convert her to an APD, which is what has been done with her sisters Dent and Talbot, she should be available 2/10/43.

http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/destroy/dd115txt.htm

[edited to fix typo and move note on Saratoga's air group]

[BPRE]

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

The GB 6pdr and the US M5 57mm ATG are basically the same weapon, and are not variants of the Russian 57mm ATG. The Brits developed the 6pdr, and then the US copied it and began producing it a few months after the Brits did.

OK,

The 6pdr and the 57mm are equal in the database so that upgrade is not a problem as such. The amount of guns available plus the fact that the 57mm is upgraded immediately (or maybe it goes straight from the 2pdr to the 76mm in some cases. I saw in another thread that it's possible for ACs) to 76mm is not very good. From that point of view it's probably better if the path is 2pdr to 6pdr.

Regards
BPRE

[Montbrun]

SpitfireIX,

The 2nd Engineer Battalion was indiginous to the 2nd Marine Division, and is assumed, in game terms, to be in San Diego with the division. There has to be alot of compromises in a game this size, especially with the campaign scenarios. The Marine Engineer Regiments were created with the "D-100" Series T/Os (7/1/42), by combining the divisional Engineer and Pioneer Battalions with a Naval Construction Battalion (of 3 companies, as opposed to the usual 4). These regiments were dropped in the "F-100" Series T/Os (5/5/44), with the assigned battalions reverting to their former designations.

Brad

[SpitfireIX]

ORIGINAL: Brad Hunter

SpitfireIX,

The 2nd Engineer Battalion was indiginous to the 2nd Marine Division, and is assumed, in game terms, to be in San Diego with the division. There has to be alot of compromises in a game this size, especially with the campaign scenarios. The Marine Engineer Regiments were created with the "D-100" Series T/Os (7/1/42), by combining the divisional Engineer and Pioneer Battalions with a Naval Construction Battalion (of 3 companies, as opposed to the usual 4). These regiments were dropped in the "F-100" Series T/Os (5/5/44), with the assigned battalions reverting to their former designations.

Brad

Doh! That's what I get for finishing my post at 2:30 a.m. [>:]

[kmussler]

My Dad was in the USMC 9th Defense Battalion. I've done a bit of research on those units, and the 9th in particular. The TO&E for the 9th (and later units) is a bit different from that in the game.

The TO&E in my books for the 9th is (in game terms):
8 - 155 Field Guns (M-1)
12 - 90mm AA guns
16 - 40mm AA guns
28 - 20mm AA guns
35 - .50 cal. HMG
30 - .30 cal. HMG
8 - M3 Stuart Light Tanks
1 - #270 Radar
Commanding Officer (Oct 1942 activation) Col. David Nimmer

The 9th was the first USMC DB to have tanks - used to great effect on New Georgia, along with those of the 10th and 11th USMC DB.
(Primary book source - Melson, Maj. Charles. The Ninth Marine Defense and AAA Battalions. Chadwick, Frank (editor). Paducah, KY: Turner Publishing, 1989.)