OOB Comments

[Lemurs!]

I actually did increase B17 & B24 ranges slightly in my scenario.
The B17E should be able to fly 2000 miles with a 4,000lb bomb load.

Anyway, i was working on Japanese ships today.
The Notoro which i believe is listed as an AK was actually a purpose built CS i believe of the Nisshin class. It did not have an airgroup permanantly attached. Also, the Chitose class CS top speed was 33kts. not 29. When it converted to a CVL its top speed did drop to 29kts.

The Sagara Maru should be a Sanyo class AV, It had its own airgroup attached, 6F1s, 2E8s. It should be part of the Singora invasion force.

The Asahi(san) Maru should be an AR; it was exactly the same as the Akashi.

Ah, the 5th Base Force and the saipan base force appear to be the same unit.
The 7th base force should probably be at Ominato.
Bonin, as far as i can tell, only had 1 platoon of gurads, 1 dock company, and 1 water distillation company on 8th dec.

The 3rd Base force and the Palau base force appear to be the same thing. The 4th base force and the Truk base force appear to be the same thing.

Mike

[Lemurs!]

Is there a game reason why the Japanese heavy artillery is all represented as 150mm guns?
Their were several regiments and battalions using 240mm & 280mm guns. Mobile guns.

Mike

[Pascal_slith]

ORIGINAL: Herrbear

ORIGINAL: Pascal

According to the section on the B-17E and F versions in volume 4 of "Aircraft in Profile", the B-17E and F versions had a range of 3'300 miles with the full 2'492 gallons of fuel and 4'420 miles with the additional "Tokyo Tanks" (fuel containers in the bomb bay, total fuel 3'612 gallons). This distances and the cruise speed was at 5000 ft.

The maximum speed at altitude was 318 mph (as in the WitP database), but the cruising speed was 160 mph. Thus the endurance should be 1'235 without Tokyo Tanks and 1'655 with Tokyo Tanks, far more than the 815 of the database. Given the caculations for Normal and Extended Range (1/4 and 1/3 of Ferry Range), I would change the endurance of the B-17E to 1600.

I think you are overstating the endurance basing it on the "Tokyo Tanks" as this would tend to increase the Normal and Extended ranges. The max bombload with the extra tanks would be much smaller in reality and you would be reflecting a Normal bombload over a longer distance than possible.

Using your End=1600 and the listed Cruise Spd of 160 a Max (Ferry) Rng=4267 or 71.11 Hexes, Norm=17.75; Ext=20.70. That would produce a Normal Bomb range of over 1000 miles, which is closer to their extended range IMO.

I agree that the Cruising Spd is a little low. Based on the sources below I would guess that 210 would be a better figure. Also I would use a maximum range 3250 (Split between 2 sources that said 3200 and 3300). The resulting figures:
Max=318; Cruise=210; Alt=36600; Climb=700; Mvr & Dur as is; Arm-1; End=929; Max Rng (Mi)=3200; Max Rng (Hx)=54.17; Ext Rng (Hx)=18.1; Norm Rng=13.5; Max Ld=8000; GV=26

The Extended Range will let you bomb Rabul from Cooktown.


Here are a few excellent sites on American and Allied aircraft.

http://home.att.net/~jbaugher2/b17.html
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research ... omber2.htm
http://www.daveswarbirds.com/usplanes/american.htm

Agree with your figures, though I found that the cruising speed you use is the one at 25'000 ft, whereas the ones I found were at 5000 ft. But, yes, the range of 3250 is probably best.

[SpitfireIX]

Scenario #15, V1.21


Ship Data

I just noticed that the New Mexico class is incorrectly equipped with 14"/45s--the correct guns are 14"/50s (Same as California and Tennessee)

Also, several ships do not have the correct captains at the start of the scenario--the ones I happened to notice are Enterprise (CAPT GW Murray, who is in the database), Arizona (CAPT Franklin Van Valkenburg), and West Virginia (CAPT Mervyn Bennion). I will check for others when I get a chance.

Finally, I noticed that Hughes is commanded by LCDR D. Ramsey, who happens to have the same stats and description as CAPT D. Ramsey, captain of Saratoga. I've seen this a couple other places as well--there appear to be at least two WC Shorts in the US Army. [&:]

[kbullard]

In scenario 1, the 1st Parachute Regiment uses the airborne infantry symbol and is air droppable.

In scenario 2, the 1st Parachute Regiment at Miri has the standard infantry symbol and cannot be air dropped. Is this an OOB error, or by design? I could imagine a unit "losing" its parachute capability as a result of combat or some other factor, but it's unclear if another factor is at work here.

Kurt

[Herrbear]

ORIGINAL: Lemurs!

I actually did increase B17 & B24 ranges slightly in my scenario.
The B17E should be able to fly 2000 miles with a 4,000lb bomb load.

Anyway, i was working on Japanese ships today.
The Notoro which i believe is listed as an AK was actually a purpose built CS i believe of the Nisshin class. It did not have an airgroup permanantly attached. Also, the Chitose class CS top speed was 33kts. not 29. When it converted to a CVL its top speed did drop to 29kts.

The Sagara Maru should be a Sanyo class AV, It had its own airgroup attached, 6F1s, 2E8s. It should be part of the Singora invasion force.

The Asahi(san) Maru should be an AR; it was exactly the same as the Akashi.

Ah, the 5th Base Force and the saipan base force appear to be the same unit.
The 7th base force should probably be at Ominato.
Bonin, as far as i can tell, only had 1 platoon of gurads, 1 dock company, and 1 water distillation company on 8th dec.

The 3rd Base force and the Palau base force appear to be the same thing. The 4th base force and the Truk base force appear to be the same thing.

Mike

And that may be another map problem. The range from Cooktown to Rabaul is 18 hexes. They were able to bomb that far in the WWII and can in UV but not with your's or WITP's figures. Same for the B-29's. They cannot reach Tokyo from Saipan. In the game it is 21 hexes away. WITP has extended range as 20.31 and you have it as 19.62.

[Lemurs!]

I am still fiddling with the air ranges.... I have the B17 at 950 minutes/180speed and the B24 at 990 minutes/190speed

mike

[Pascal_slith]

ORIGINAL: Lemurs!

I am still fiddling with the air ranges.... I have the B17 at 950 minutes/180speed and the B24 at 990 minutes/190speed

mike

B-17E and B-17G range around 3200-3400, compromise at 3250 (see earlier posts). Cruise speed around 180mph (a compromise of different altitude figures), therefore endurance at 1080 minutes.

[Pascal_slith]

Many a/c (both Allied and Japanese) have endurance figures that are a little short, such as B-17, PBY, even the G4M. A closer check here would be worthwhile. I've started a spreadsheet with the calculations. Will try to post in next few days.

[brisd]

I noticed in Scenario 15, ver 1.21 that the Sasebo Base Force Engineer unit starts (and stays, it's static) in Nagasaki. There is no Nagasaki base force, seems like an error to me and I've not seen it noted in this thread.

[pry]

Data Collected

[Iron Duke]

scen 15 v1.21

Looking in the game and editor I've noticed a couple of discrepances

1. There are no tank battalions in the USMC divisions .

2. In the Indian Infantry divisions/brigades their are no British or Gurkha inf squads , general rule of thumb for indian brigades is 1x British battalion and 2x Indian or/and Gurkha battalions .

In fact I've yet to find a formation that includes any Gurkha squads?
Some independant brigades had just Indian/Gurkha battalions i.e. 268th Bde , Lushai Bde , 50th Para Bde.

3. 50th Armoured (Tank) Brigade not in OOB
4. Lushai Brigade not in OOB

[Montbrun]

Iron Duke,

1. I pointed this out on the first page of this thread.
2. British battalions serving with the Indian forces were on an the same "Indian Estblishment" as the Indian battalions.
3. There are many OoB and TOE discrepencies to be addressed....

Brad

[Brady]

TY Pascal, I had planed on going through and doing the math, but frankely it was at a glance a daunting task, that is why in part I listed all the data neaded to do the calculations for the Japanaese planes in my posts, I am happy to hear you will do a spread sheat on it.[:)]

[Tankerace]

I didn't even notice this, until I was collecting data for my Plan Orange mod.

In the WiTP OOB, the New Mexico class BB is using the 14"/45 cal Mk 8 gun, when in fact it should (like the Tennessee) be using the 14"/50 cal Mk 7 gun. In building all three ships were slated to use the 45 cal, but before completion they were fitted with the improved 50 cal gun.

Source: Jane's Fighting Ships of World War I

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

I didn't even notice this, until I was collecting data for my Plan Orange mod.

In the WiTP OOB, the New Mexico class BB is using the 14"/45 cal Mk 8 gun, when in fact it should (like the Tennessee) be using the 14"/50 cal Mk 7 gun. In building all three ships were slated to use the 45 cal, but before completion they were fitted with the improved 50 cal gun.

Source: Jane's Fighting Ships of World War I

45...50, guess the original armament was off. Never thought twice about it. Good catch guys.

[Pascal_slith]

ORIGINAL: Brady

TY Pascal, I had planed on going through and doing the math, but frankely it was at a glance a daunting task, that is why in part I listed all the data neaded to do the calculations for the Japanaese planes in my posts, I am happy to hear you will do a spread sheat on it.[:)]

Brady, I have all your posts. What were your sources? I'm including the sources in the spreadsheet.

[Brady]

I will List them Tomarow, late hear now....

[strawbuk]

ORIGINAL: Brad Hunter

Iron Duke,
2. British battalions serving with the Indian forces were on an the same "Indian Estblishment" as the Indian battalions.

Brad

See excellent stuff by McNaughton on Burma/Brits/CW, first &cond pages of thsi thread.

And... tm.asp?m=646566&mpage=9&key=&#661155661155

In danger of becoming the Forgotten Army again.

[Montbrun]

^^^...not if I can help it - scrounging up my Indian Army sources this week...