StarForce - The Other Side of CP Story - Thoughts ??

[Hartley]

If the RIAA and MPAA can go after P2P piracy, why are Micorosoft and Adobe sitting on their asses ?

Makes no sense whatsoever.

[dinsdale]

ORIGINAL: Hartley

If the RIAA and MPAA can go after P2P piracy, why are Micorosoft and Adobe sitting on their asses ?

Makes no sense whatsoever.

Perhaps because in the month following the highly publicised RIAA actions P2P usage increased by 10%?

[Cmdrcain]

ORIGINAL: Hexed Gamer

Anyone here ever actually see a pirated board game?

No not seen, but the baseball game I like used be a card only game (it started selling in 1962) and I heard of instances where a person would pay for an old set of past season (the company back then only pprinted each new seasons cards and didn't re-print past seasons ) and I heard storys of people burned by getting PHOTOCOPIED sheets of the Past Seasons... you could call that pirating a board game in a way, since it was cards, dice and a baseball field layout on cardboard with runner pieces.. (strat-o-matic)

Sooo I wouldn't be surprised if some board games were "copied"


[:'(]

[Cmdrcain]

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

I want a simple CP scheme and the ability to backup a copy of the game should something happen to my origional version. Let's go back to looking up a word in the manual, lol, wasn't that fun? hahaha I think I hated that one the most, then SSI came out with one for I think it was Pool of Radiance where it had this WHEEL and you had to line up the wheel with the icons on it and then type in the words that showed up in the windows of the wheel, lol, yet, another funny copy protection scheme that failed. They've all failed, looks like they would just give up and just accept what they get is all they would get anyway instead of "theorizing" that if we make a better CP program we'll get more sales, how many years now has the software industry been thinking/theorizing this way? And has it worked? lol, no it's only got worse.

Well on first point I agree insofar as that any CP scheme should not
prevent a LEGAL archival backup being made, as I've said the copywrite law developers and publishers wave has that right in that same law, for the users protection.

As to the Wheels , etc those weren't too problemic a type of CP,
at least they were nonintrusive, I recall how Starflight I had a cod wheel.. It was not a problem... but Starflight II used a Map and a device and "type in number of say red stars in the little window" which was more annoting, the map being big..

But neither scheme prevented making backup copys of the install floppys...so I could do that and put away the originals in a safe place.

If a "feel good" CP scheme is needed fine but it should be of a type that doesn't prevent archival backups, if it does he softwares "copywrite" should be legally void, if the Copywrite holder itself violates the law they should lose the copywrite.. the only exception I could make is free replacements, totally free, if license is open ended in how long it lasts.

Lets face it, developers of games etc have a right to be compensated yes, no arguement from me there, but users of the product should not need to pay to replace a damaged copy of the Media, they already paid for the license right, the seller is /should be obligated to ensure as long as license is in force the license purchaser has working media.

That is the problem, how many have plenty of old software thats been essentially "abandoned"

Perhaps software needs a different copywrite law, with a Much Shorter length of protection, after all a book can be protected a very long time, and same law pretty much copywrites software for 50+ years.

I think anytime a Software publisher abandons support hey should if use a Cp scheme that prevents copying to issue as matter of the copywrite law an removal program or all purpose key so abandoning support wouldn't prevent purchasers from still using their paid for licensed software.

1:If CP prevemts copyng
Then
2: Publisher etc required then to freely replace returned damaged Media
And
3: If uses an activition scheme, then if abandons support an removal prg or all-purpose key put out.

Would be fair, Publishers have their protection from piracy, legal users get the proper support etc they should, and bad media replaced free of charge.

If a publisher doesn't wish to have to replace media then they need use a CP scheme that doesn't prevent copying of the install media.. period.

And see #3 on if its an activition scheme, if so then if abandon that support, they issue a removal tool..


Software publishers have to be fair to legal users otherwise
if cannot copy install media thats damaged and/or get freely replaced and its a prg well liked/used the company drives the legal user to get a cracked/pirated version and THAT could lead to abandoning any legal buying and just from that point getting pirated free stuff for everything!


[:@]

[Cmdrcain]

ORIGINAL: dinsdale

ORIGINAL: Hartley

If the RIAA and MPAA can go after P2P piracy, why are Micorosoft and Adobe sitting on their asses ?

Makes no sense whatsoever.

Perhaps because in the month following the highly publicised RIAA actions P2P usage increased by 10%?

Or perhaps in case of Microsoft they might be afraid that
antitrust/monopoly issues will be back in the spotlight
if they come down as big heavys..

[:D][:D][:D]

[Kizardvexius]

ORIGINAL: JallaTryne

Why do people download cracked games? I think alot of the downloads happen just because its available.
JT

Never !
It is not because you can steal something that you do it.

[Hexed Gamer]

Lets see, 10 bucks in your pocket and 10,000 dollars of things you want.

People steal simply because they want, and have no means to buy.

If I had 1000 bucks coming into my life each day, yeah sure, the odds of me pirating software would be like you know even less than zero.

But we are able to go online, and only a total incompetent boob CAN'T find illegal options online.

So, the basic fact of life, is if they can steal it they will. Why, because it's the way we humans think.

If it's worth something, you either protect it, or make provisions for dealing with it.

Because that's the bottom line, if it's worth something, someone is going to want it, and if they can't buy it, they WILL steal it. Especially if there is no real impediment to doing so.

Software is stolen so much, simply because stealing software is as easy as it is.

Right now, I can't lift a case of beer out of the beer store without having to have ever left home.
Not surprising then, we are not hearing about the ever present theft of beer right under their noses.

Right now I can go online and steal damn near any software out there. I don't have to go outside my home nor even get dressed eh.
I merely need the desire to do it.

And there appears to be not thing one the industry can do to stop people realising that very harsh reality.

It is just plain dumb to think the nobility of man will ever amount to squat in protecting your property.

We need to do something, something that actually DOES something.
Otherwise, it's like listening to a dolt crying about how his car was stolen because he left the motor running and the door's unlocked.

Until we employ some of our oh so clever tech to defeating our tech's security vulnerabilities, theft is a reality you can just get used to.

[Home40]

"Otherwise, it's like listening to a dolt crying about how his car was stolen because he left the motor running and the door's unlocked. "

Not quite - it's more like someone making a copy of the said vehicle. The driver ain't necessarily worse off. The issue with software piracy is more about the loss of potential sales than anyone being directly deprived of hard earned property.

Developers put more or less effort into their goods and deserve a return.

However, to say the bread is being stolen from the software industry's mouth is not clear until the true potential of the market is known - which it isn't.

Returning to the car analogy: If the guy who copied the car had no way of affording a vehicle like that should the manufacturer be too bothered? Having acquired a taste for driving there's always the chance the facsimiliser will want to buy the real thing one day.

h40

[Home40]

Until we employ some of our oh so clever tech to defeating our tech's security vulnerabilities, theft is a reality you can just get used to.

And when total security exists sales will rocket!!!

h40

[Hexed Gamer]

Why is theft something so hard to fess up to being what it is.

NO damnit, making a copy of something you could never have made a purchase of is not, NOT denying the originator of said article a sale.

You stole his damn product. You stole his right to be the only way in hell you were going to get his damn product.

YOU STOLE FROM HIM.

How about this, say I kidnap your daughter. After all I could never really have her otherwise right? Does my saying something moronic like, well I could never legally have her anyways, so where's your loss.
Do you not SEE how completely bereft of simple common sense your position is?

If you can't afford it, the proper response is TOUGH LUCK.

Stealing is stealing, will continue to be stealing till hell freezes over or the person decides they want to give it away.

It's no wonder the world is like it is today, its crawling with people that are NOT indicative of us being the superor intellect on this planet.

I just wish I could clone someone and tell the donor sorry I can't afford to actually buy slaves. Hey, it's not like I was ever going to pay you eh, so like I never really stole from you did I?

The ONLY reason I have limited sympathy for the industry, is because it TOO is suitable stupid in how it protects itself.

Fools and their money are soon parted.

[Kevinugly]

There are various methods that the industry could protect itself. StarForce is not a particularly good one since it can interfere with your system in ways that have nothing to do with the game it was 'packaged' with. I've also noticed that several Ubisoft games have proved to be incompatible with certain hardware (hardware that I own) and so my money will not be spent on games published by that company.

The whole piracy/copywrite/'abandonware' stack of issues is not one that I care to delve into but I've seen the PC games industry 'shoot itself in the foot' too many times for me to have much sympathy for it as a whole when it starts bleating about lost sales.

[Home40]

Why is theft something so hard to fess up to being what it is.

Because you are drawing comparisons between the copying of computer games that might otherwise not be bought or played with taking and driving away some poor fellow's hard earned car.

'No problem calling a spade a spade - someone is copying games they would never buy and is therefore possibly not depriving anyone of anything.

I always thought the law works best when it takes account of the degree of harm being done.

How about this, say I kidnap your daughter. After all I could never really have her otherwise right? Does my saying something moronic like, well I could never legally have her anyways, so where's your loss.

Again, you are using a hugely exaggerated level of harm, totally out of proportion with the misdeed actually under discussion. Someone has stolen my daughter, btw, and yet it's all nice and legal like - so much for the law and right and wrong.

Stealing is stealing

- Oh, gotcha.

TOUGH LUCK

- Life's cruel, right? Humbug!

The ONLY reason I have limited sympathy for the industry, is because it TOO is suitable stupid in how it protects itself.

Vigilante goons are the way to go, I think or at least invasive security measures, afterall pirates is pirates.

It's no wonder the world is like it is today, its crawling with people that are NOT indicative of us being the superor intellect on this planet.

- I really doubt folks get any more honest the brighter they get - but there is such a thing as enlightened self-interest.

h40

[Kevinugly]

Because you are drawing comparisons between the copying of computer games that might otherwise not be bought or played with taking and driving away some poor fellow's hard earned car.

That's not a particularly good comparison. If I choose to build my own car, copying another car in the process, it's still something that I paid for and toiled at to achieve. If I download a pirate copy of a game, I'm choosing not to reward someone else's investment of both time and money. Effectively, that is theft[:-]

[Home40]

If I download a pirate copy of a game, I'm choosing not to reward someone else's investment of both time and money. Effectively, that is theft

Absolutely right, both as a legal definition (I assume) and morally wrong on the grounds that someone is being deprived of their just rewards. I am sincerely doubtful though, that all downloads or copies would otherwise translate into legit sales.

h40

[Hexed Gamer]

Ok to beat this odd conversation into the dust.

You say you would not otherwse buy it. Thus you were never a potential customer. Well yes, that the point, you were also never allowed it either. Copied or otherwise.

Why do you object to the owner telling you you can't have access to his game?

It was never yours at any time. You have no right to it. It matters not if you don't give a god damned if the guy was ever going to have made the sale.

The point is you never had the right to it at all.

Saying oh it is priced to high is not remotely relevant. Where does that absolve you of the right to possess it?

Software is easy to copy, that is the beginning and the endding of the issue really.

Kevin mentioned the car built from scratch. Short of making materials to make parts appear out of thin air, he has stil had to put cash in someone's pocket. Thus the car is paid for.
If he bought all the parts of a porsche and hand built it himself, it would probably cost him a good deal more. But there is nothing stopping a car fan from having the laughs is there.

It all comes down to, if the industry won't protect itself, then I don't care to her it cry.

At night I can either lock my door or not.
I can either wear a seatbelt or not.
If I suffer from a bad choice, who's fault is it?

Sure you can arrest a thief. But in the end, we all need to at least acknowledge we can do "something" to protect our private property.
To not do so, is folly.

[Kevinugly]

ORIGINAL: Home40

If I download a pirate copy of a game, I'm choosing not to reward someone else's investment of both time and money. Effectively, that is theft

Absolutely right, both as a legal definition (I assume) and morally wrong on the grounds that someone is being deprived of their just rewards. I am sincerely doubtful though, that all downloads or copies would otherwise translate into legit sales.

h40

I would agree totally. I have all sorts of pirated stuff on my systems, most of which I would never buy. Those that I like and use/play I then go out and purchase. There is an argument that the availability of pirated software actually benefits the computer industry (both hardware and software) as a whole. The problem imho comes not from downloading software for free (which leaves you with the cash to go and make another purchase) but from those who sell pirated copies since that is taking money out of the business. As far as I'm aware, legally there is no difference (correct me if there is[:)]) but morally ....... slightly grey area.

[Hexed Gamer]

Selling pirated software is worse than criminal if you ask me.

It's free (pirated) in the first place so buying it seems kinda dumb I suppose.

But usurping a sale is even worse than the guy getting it for free who otherwise didn't care squat to ever pay for it.

In the one case, the guy never intended to buy.
In the other, someone has given out cash, but to a cretin, not the guy that did all the work.

Might not seem relevant to the victim. but a cretin thief is worse than a meagre thief I think.

[Kevinugly]

Apart from the 'taking money ouy of the business' issue, these vendors who sell pirated copies of games, software, CDs, DVDs etc. also give the impression that the legally sold items should be just as cheap. Given that most people are unaware of the actual costs of developing, publishing, packaging and marketing a product they buy a pirate copy of 'Doom 3' from some market trader for $10 and wonder why the genuine copy is $50 (or whatever). In the meantime the marketeer is probably making more than any of those involved in the genuine article. One despairs sometimes[8|]

[ravinhood]

Someone needs to hit that Taiwan group that keeps selling newly released games for under $20, it's just the CD, no box, no manual, they say the manual is in Taiwan anyways. But, the code is USA. They got big advertisements up at ebay now, must be making a fortune to put those kinds of pictures/ads up. Of course they have the latest and greatest listed, I guess some people are buying them, but, I perfer used games from USA residents, since they usually come with a box and a manual and still under $20 if I just wait long enough. Heck sometimes I wait long enough I don't even want the bloomin game anymore. It's that NEW release hype that gets most people, kinda like smoking, if you stop the addiction, then it can't getcha. I have beaten the "omg a new game I gotta have it now" addiction.

[Kevinugly]

Well a good few people have to but the game new or the unfortunate publisher/developer will go out of business!! That said, I often wait a few weeks/months until the game has come down in price or it becomes available s/hand. That Taiwanese group does sound decidedly dodgy though - but if I want to acquire a game without a manual or a box I'll download it for free, I'm not going to pay money for that kind of thing! Some people live in a whole different World.... or at least I wish they did[;)]