Comments on the 8.3 Patch

[Hexed Gamer]

In spite of Franks remarks

He has said something that a lot just don't seem to want to accept.

If you don't like 8.3 or 8.2 or 8.1 or 7.1 or 7.0 (get the idea), don't use them.

In a lot of cases, a lot of the changes were often based a lot on opinion.

To me, normally a patch is something you release when the game is broke and won't actually run. A lot of our headaches stem from incessant fiddling.

8.3 is now here, and still we have people wanting something fixed.

I just hope David meant it when he said it was done. It would do the designers a big favour if they could go forth to create,m and not wonder if in a month all their work was pointless.

Guy I pity the most would be Panzer Leo actually.
He has a great mod, and I bet he thought he would not have to worry about redoing stuff after version 7.

[rich12545]

Wow. Came to this thread to see what people thought about the new oobs in 8.3. Was I fooled.

I can see both sides. I registered and got the patch with no problem. Didn't occur to me that it was an imposition to register twice. And I had already given the company my email address.

Now I can understand, the point is WHY?

And it doesn't matter if the game is free. If you pay for the megas, the game is required. The patch is a good idea even for the megas. So in a sense you're getting a patch for a freebie that is REQUIRED to play the game you paid for. So I can understand why it might upset some to register and give an email address for a patch that is needed to properly play a game that they paid for.

[Hexed Gamer]

It's just an email address.

If you actually have to worry about how you use said email address, then perhaps you need to rethink why you used that email address and not something convenient like a disposable one.

[#Vassago]

I am totally flabbergasted to see people complaining about having to give...an email...to download a patch...

Boy I wish I had that kind of time to spare and that I had only this kind of "problem" in my life....

growup kids...it not like they are asking for your soul or anything....[8|] sheesh...

[KG Erwin]

Frank W, you have missed much in the improvements we made from 7.1 to the final 8.3. The bugs you mentioned have subsequently been fixed. I can now enjoy myself in campaigns vs the poor dumb AI, in that the AI's default force selections for many nations have been tweaked and are now better balanced. The downside--the Germans are still screwed up, for one simple reason--the AI cannot handle mounted infantry formations, period. The AI-controlled infantry will be on foot. That's just the way it is.

Now, if you want to go Pacific, it's much much better now. These were easier to tweak without the benefit of mech.exe changes. Btw, 8.2 DID offer a new mech.exe. For hard-core armor enthusiasts, we adjusted many formations and units. Frank, you're selling yourself short if you don't get the complete 8.2 and the 8.3 upgrade. We adjusted off-board arty loadouts, and changed prices for the heavy arty.

We've received some complaints about our rarity settings and restricting players to historical units/formations, but this is what the game is supposed to represent. We did allow for fantasy units, but they are offered as optional units with availability beginning in Dec 1949. Using the in-game OOB editor, you can alter any data parameter you wish. This is how the various OOB teams did it, and I used the knowledge to further alter certain OOBs for my personal use.

The game itself is open-ended. Matrix and the OOB Team offered what we believe to be the best database we could offer. Mistakes undoubtedly crept in, despite our best efforts, so you guys can correct them on your own. You have the tools, so feel free to use them.

[robot]

The really great thing is if you feel the patch is an imposition on you and you hate the idea about registering a second time. Then dont do it you do not need the patch to play this game. Hell you didnt even need all the upgrades over the years to play this game. There are lots of people still playing with 7.1 and i am one of them. I have 2 installs 7.1 and 8.3 oh and also HH. I did not need to get the patch to play i just wanted to see what they added was all.

I personally dont see anything that the 8.3 changed. But then i dont look for all the goodies or changes. I just play the game and have a great time doing it. It is one of the longest playing games i have stayed with over the years. And believe me i have spent a hell of a lot of money on worthless games over the years. Some i never had on my comp for longer then a month and they went into the garbage. Lets say i spent 35 dollers for three games that has went into the garbage a long time ago. And some of them cost more then 35.00 but just use that as a base. Now i spend 100 dollers on the general edition knowing i am going to get say ten more years of excellent game time. Thats because i have already gotten at least 6 years of great playing time. Where am i out at for having to regester one more time. Jeez guys lets put this into perspective.

[Frank W.]

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

Frank W, you have missed much in the improvements we made from 7.1 to the final 8.3.........

thanx, perhaps i will try it out !

[;)]

[the_redstar_swl]

yay! guards counterattack is back! also the german inf guns sound nicer too.

PS. whats H2H?

[Cross]

H2H (Head to Head) is a mod. (modification) of SPWAW. It was originally privately done by Panzer Leo.

It is - in most opinions - an improvement on SPWAW. I believe Panzer Leo has been hired by Matrix now.

Check out this site for more info:

http://www.theblitz.org/member_sites/pa ... rework.php

I also recommend you join The Blitz wargaming club too (where the site is located) if you are not already a member.

hope this helps.
Cheers,
Cross

ps. To save you future confusion, there is a third version of SP called SPww2. This version is not a Matrix product though. So there is SPWAW, SPH2H and SPww2, three very similar but different games. And there is SP MBT.

[KG Erwin]

H2H is an interesting variation on SPWaW 7.1. I have adapted some of Panzer Leo's pics and sound files for my version of 8.3. Matrix' 8.3 is the definitive OOB version, but I've tweaked my version and incorporated some of the best (to date) alternative ideas presented by independent designers. Since I exclusively play vs the AI, I can customize the OOBs to suit my historical whims. This is one of the features I love about SPWaW.

[Cross]

KG,

V8.3 sounds interesting, I can't wait to download it. But have to finish a PBEM battle, I am in the middle of, first. I look forward to the new OOBs in particular, the WAW OOBs did need some work.

Since I exclusively play vs the AI,

May I ask why? I feel bad for you. Once I played by e-mail, I could never go back to the AI opponent, except to practice or fool around, it's just not as captivating.

regards,
Cross

[KG Erwin]

ORIGINAL: Cross

KG,

V8.3 sounds interesting, I can't wait to download it. But have to finish a PBEM battle, I am in the middle of, first. I look forward to the new OOBs in particular, the WAW OOBs did need some work.

Since I exclusively play vs the AI,

Simple answer--I belong to several online forums, not all related to wargaming, and my "play-time" is really limited. My obsession with a competent AI opponent goes back a long way. There has been much research done in the last few years, but it doesn't necessarily have commercial game applications. A legendary attempt at AI interaction was with the "Road to Moscow" project. This ambitious wargame project really deserves to have a book written about it.
May I ask why? I feel bad for you. Once I played by e-mail, I could never go back to the AI opponent, except to practice or fool around, it's just not as captivating.

regards,
Cross

[Goblin]

It actually takes less time to play PBEM. Quick ten minute turn, mail it and forget about it until the next day. More fun, less time.


Goblin

[Cross]

I must say I have to agree with Goblin. I have 4 children and other responsibilities; so just don't have time to play many games myself, especially some of those addictive on-line games.[:D]

But PBEM forces you to only play a limited time each day; or some players prefer to only play a couple of times a week . As long as you don't start playing multiple opponents. [;)]
regards,
Cross

[Goblin]

ORIGINAL: Cross

As long as you don't start playing multiple opponents. [;)]

Lol, that is one danger![:D]


Goblin

[BryanMelvin]

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

H2H is an interesting variation on SPWaW 7.1. I have adapted some of Panzer Leo's pics and sound files for my version of 8.3. Matrix' 8.3 is the definitive OOB version, but I've tweaked my version and incorporated some of the best (to date) alternative ideas presented by independent designers. Since I exclusively play vs the AI, I can customize the OOBs to suit my historical whims. This is one of the features I love about SPWaW.

This was the purpose of 8.3 - give gamers the opportunity to fashion there own personal oobs and to move the game forward where ever it will lead [:D]

The 8.3 oobs are a base one can work off of. You can now, using the spwaw game editor, identify what formations the AI will pick and improve these to ones heart's content or let the game play as it is. You can adjust oobs and swap these with others.

8.3 will be Matrixsgames last version and it is gift to you, to do with as you please. You can leave 8.3 as it is or try your own hand at imptoving it.

8.3 will remain the official version but your own versions can spin off these and give longer life to a great game.

This was to be a gift to you all and we at matrixgames leave the game in your hands[;)]

[minefield]

I am throwing my two cents in here so don't get upset over my words; for truly anyone's words up here really shouldn't be worth your emotions.

In response to the infantry changing colors as they are injured, this is a carry over bug from earlier versions. I did not look into it personally but it was explained to me as a sprite (definition: small graphic) problem. Basically the game just points to the wrong file for injured infantry so the colors magically change when the squad is injured enough. I imagine this could be fixed with a little detective work.

In response to the cumbersome patch distribution, I can see both sides. In this day of viruses by email, spam, and other such nonsense, people have a rational reluctance to release their email address into the open domain. As mentioned, a good fix for this is to use a disposable email account (some services even offer such special accounts). However this does not explain why Matrix decided to switch over to putting the patches in a protected area as opposed to using True Update, which has been their policy in the past. I imagine the answer is simpler than we think and Matrix has just made some company policy of storing all their product's patches (or the new ones or something) in this new area and SP:WAW just happened to get effected by the new policy as opposed to Matrix singling out SP:WAW. This would just lead me to ask if Matrix has any objections to its gamers redistributing this patch on their own websites. This would save a lot of headaches.

As far as the game being free or not, this is a silly argument. As someone was beginning to explain with dial-up costs, etc. (which is a very real and tangible expense for those forced to use net cafe's in Europe), obtaining the game is not free of cost. But this argument actually holds for anything in that you can argue that you have to pay for the calories spent in your body. Looking at the grass grow is not free; watching birds fly is not free. What really is the point is rather or not the game itself is being charged for (over and beyond incidental expenses in obtaining it). I would say the game is free as many others would say it is. The only confusing part is that Matrix is bundling the game with Mega Campaigns and charging for the resulting package. Of course if you were to argue Matrix Games was breaking the tradition / agreement of a free SP:WAW then they could just remove it from the package and force you to download it. So don't argue that point too hard.

The next point is my own and a troubling one. The patch isn't friendly with other copies of the game. If you have more than one copy of 8.2 installed and you just want to update one of them, there isn't any way to protect the original copy. It will display 8.3 regardless of what attempts you take to protect it (for PBEM'ing purposes of course). The extent of this change (besides the version stamp) is unknown to me. Hopefully I will get a PBEM opponent soon and I will see if 8.2 still works even though it is now branded 8.3.

As far as the actual point of this thread, the opinions regarding the OOB and other game play changes, I have been too caught up with trying to save 8.2 on my computer to actually play around with it yet (just got back to SP:WAW after a break). Will come back after some experience (and hopefully some PBEM's!).

[KG Erwin]

Here's an OOB editing goof I found--USMC units 113 & 114, (the D & E squads with shotguns in slot 3) have wrong ammo loadouts. It should be 30 rnds HE, not 18. Sorry, guys--this one slipped by me. [:o]

[minefield]

The last entry in the German (iirc) encyclopedia mentions that a crew member is an upgraded Pz IV or something like that in the text description

[KG Erwin]

Minefield, any adjustments to the OOBs will have to be done by the players. Matrix will NOT be offering any more patches. Now, if everyone is paying attention, then you can fix the previous USMC glitch I mentioned. This can be regarded as official, but you gotta do it yourself with the in-game OOB Editor .