true story about US Navy

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Muzrub
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Post by Muzrub »

Just a last comment. I've been away from the forum for awhile and so I've just read this whole thread tonight. The above post was done as soon as I read the post I responded to from Muzrub and I had not read the rest of the posts in the thread. Suffice it to say that I now believe several of you are howling mad men with far too much free time on your hands to be writing so many essays to one another.
Now for a more serious comment: This kind of forum will never change the mind of those who have slammed the doors to their minds and cling mightily to their own self-righteous wisdom. Better to cast them adrift and join an outreach penpal program or something to help a young person keep from nurturing their ignorance into hatreds fed by rationalizations and selective listening. Can I get a "Hail Yeah!"? (p.s. I crack myself up.) :0

Suffice it to say that I now believe several of you are howling mad men with far too much free time on your hands to be writing so many essays to one another.

And you are the cream that rose to the top my friend.

This kind of forum will never change the mind of those who have slammed the doors to their minds and cling mightily to their own self-righteous wisdom.

You seem to know yourself very well!

Better to cast them adrift and join an outreach penpal program or something to help a young person keep from nurturing their ignorance into hatreds fed by rationalizations and selective listening. Can I get a "Hail Yeah!"? (p.s. I crack myself up.) :0

Yes! Cut yourself adrift. You are not needed here at all. Foolishness such as yours is not a virtue.
Harmlessly passing your time in the grassland away;
Only dimly aware of a certain unease in the air.
You better watch out,
There may be dogs about
I've looked over Iraq, and i have seen
Things are not what they seem.


Matrix Axis of Evil
Lokioftheaesir
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Post by Lokioftheaesir »

Muzz

WooHoo, this should be interesting.
Being an auzzie i can understand your viewpoint and having some insight into the company centered ethics of big business (non national greed) i can see some of Brickreids.

However there was one thing i overlooked in brick's post that ticks me off. It is the words
'this kind of' in the statement.
"This kind of forum will never change the mind of those who have slammed the doors to their minds and cling mightily to their own self-righteous wisdom."

Why

Now i ask 'What' kind of forum 'Will' change those minds?

The only forum that would surely open the mind of any recalcitrant was closed down quite a while back.
It was called the Inquisition. <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

What i am inclined to believe is that the term 'This kind of forum' is meant to imply that we posters on the WiR board are incapable of a rational arguement that could sway the minds of those 'who cling mightily to there self righteous wisdom'.

Rather a close minded and self righteous piece of wisdom there brick old boy...eh what.

Nick

PS. The 'cast adrift' one was good too. So not one of your loved ones or friends has a closed mind on 'any' topic? ...How amazing.
Gentile or Jew
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,
Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.
Lokioftheaesir
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Post by Lokioftheaesir »

"Suffice it to say that I now believe several of you are howling mad men with far too much free time on your hands to be writing so many essays to one another."

Thank you brick

I proudly take my place alongside Kant, Hiedeggar, Liebniz, Kirkigaard, Locke, Berkley, Hume, Aquinas exct,exct,exct... as a bunch of howling madmen who spent one hell of a lot of time writing essays to eachother.
(or will the closed mind state that one sort of essay is 'more important' than another)

How does your foot taste? <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

Nick
Gentile or Jew
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,
Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.
RickyB
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Post by RickyB »

Originally posted by Muzrub:
I have another reason to dislike your people!


Muzrub,

I was wondering if you would clarify this comment as to who "your people" are? As I can only take it to mean Americans in general, as opposed to American society, or American government, or American business, or "your type of people" which would also have a much less broad meaning, I guess I fall into that category. Doesn't really matter too much to me what you feel about me as an American, but I would like to know it for any future dealings that come up between us.

Personally I have played or discussed games with Americans, Canadians, French, Poles, Russians, Dutch, Czechs, Hungarians, Australians, Singapore (???), Taiwanese, and had friends from many other nations and cultures, and I would be hard pressed to label any group of people, by nation, philosophy, religion or lack thereof or whatever else as a group I dislike. If that is how you feel about Americans, fine and I will remember that.
Rick Bancroft
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BrickReid
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Post by BrickReid »

Ah, Muzrub, What a wonderful series of responses. Fortunately, I already know I'm a arrogant *** . Most always have been. You, however, are blind to your own self-righteous arrogance that you have trumpeted to everyone with your responses. Your, "I have another reason to dislike your people!", comment is the tops. You are indeed full of hatred and blinded by your own self-righteous convictions. My god, all aussies are obviously victims by your accounting. NONE of them wanted American products and yet were forced to buy them. NONE of them wanted american businesses among them and yet they were forced to sell them to US corporations. At gun point I expect, too.

The fact is that many many people all over the world, and Australia too, like American products and ideas. Hell, most of the population of our country is made of people came here for a better life and better ideals. Your narrow minded belief that everyone thinks as you do is an indication I usually see in liberals and far left socialists. I suppose that's ok, as we have plenty of those in America too.

If you feel so strongly, then I suggest you establish a nice little nationalistic political party based on a hate of all things American. Let's see how much support you get from you fellow Aussies. What's funny is that among all the nations of the world, Aussies have a more similar history to the Americans than any other. Must be one of the reasons our nations are best of friends. You must hate that too. Hahahaha, must be a bummer to have to live with.

btw: The use of "this kind of forum" was unfortunate. It was intended to refer to "this kind of argument" among people who have extreme or very stong feelings on a subject. Go take a course in argumentative speech/writing and you will learn that it isn't simply based on my opinions, but on much more learned expert's research and teachings. Oh, well, sorry for mistake.

It can be fun riling people who cling to hatreds.
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Post by Lokioftheaesir »

Originally posted by BrickReid:


btw: The use of "this kind of forum" was unfortunate. It was intended to refer to "this kind of argument" among people who have extreme or very stong feelings on a subject. .................Oh, well, sorry for mistake.

It can be fun riling people who cling to hatreds.

Brick

Oh well.
We all muff it now and again, No problems.

To the last sentence. Yes it truly can be.

==========================
I may find the tactics of some Big corporations (US or any other) to be greedy and self serving but this 'does not' flow on to the citizens of any country.

There are good, bad but mostly just average friendly people in all countries.

The ethics and tactics of 'some' US companies in no way effects the fact that the US has been our staunch ally for many decades (and we theirs) and as i commented to Ed in a post way back, the US CVNBG's that cruise the pacific are there for us also.
I shudder to think of a time when that shield of power and professionalism is not present.
And our near empty land with it's few defences suddenly comes under the gaze of some greedy government in one of the land-poor nations to our north.

Nick

[ January 05, 2002: Message edited by: Lokioftheaesir ]</p>
Gentile or Jew
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,
Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.
shane056
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Post by shane056 »

What happened to the jokes !! Why is this thread taking a nose dive at an ever increasing rate of knots ?? Last I heard Australia and America were still friends, and so, has some diabolical event happened to change that ??

As an Australian of many generations (and proud of it) we are a very well educated and disciplined country, and are without doubt masters of our own country and culture.. If we like something from overseas (America, Japan, Europe, Asia) then we will import it, if we don't like it, ie.. we no longer buy it, watch it, wear it, use it or eat it, then I can assure you that the importers will no longer bring it in.. It all boils down to supply and demand.

Granted that these worldwide imports do to some degree affect our culture (look at the computer / video games generation) but it is we Australians who choose for that to take place, and to what degree that it comes into our lives, and not some insidious outside force, imposing it upon us.. Love it or hate it we are all now apart of a world wide community, the internet, and economic globalisation being big factors in all of this.. We need overseas investment (and yes from America) to grow, as other countries need Australian investment to grow as well.. It could be argued that contries accepting Australian investment feel that in some ways their culture is being eroded, but I hope not.

OK lets shakehands and makeup.. And bring back the jokes.. As I have stated previously, God bless both Australia and America, as we are two very generous nations, usually being the first to front up when disasters strike anywhere in our regions..
..Shane
BrickReid
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Post by BrickReid »

I realize that, in my haste and desire to knock down the anti-US howling, I have been quite offensive to people of other nations with my comments on some of their ~'poor pathetic existences' and so on, that I spoke of. I just want to say that I have lived a poor pathetic existence during part of my childhood and don't wish it on anyone. At one time my family and I (6 of us) lived in a trailer "home" that wasn't but a few feet longer than the very old and beat up family car. It (the trailer) was very beat up and only had one bedroom and that was all we could afford on an E-3 in the Army's wages back in 1972. Also, millions of other people in the US live in poverty, filthy surroundings, drugs, violence, etc. and so forth.

My point is that I don't believe that all Americans are better (off) than all foreigners. I just believe that, in general, people in the US have a better opportunity to make something of themselves from nothing if they catch the right breaks and give the right effort. There are exceptions, as Japan and a few other nations actually are doing better than Americans when it comes to standard of living as far as I can tell. We arn't perfect, but we arn't oppressed either. At least not most of us. I think it would be nice if everyone could say that, everywhere. Sorry for the offense that I gave (except to Muzrub, who deserved it).
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Muzrub
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Post by Muzrub »

I was wondering if you would clarify this comment as to who "your people" are? As I can only take it to mean Americans in general, as opposed to American society, or American government, or American business, or "your type of people" which would also have a much less broad meaning, I guess I fall into that category.

"Your People" refers to the type of American which believe their way of life and their nations is "always correct" and if we (foriegners) have a problem we should just "grow up".

I dont believe you fall into that category!

BrickReid where should I start?

Your narrow minded belief that everyone thinks as you do is an indication I usually see in liberals and far left socialists.

Narrow minded- oh my god!
If being a Socialist means disliking your opinions so be it. I dont really care.

Your, "I have another reason to dislike your people!", comment is the tops. You are indeed full of hatred and blinded by your own self-righteous convictions. My god, all aussies are obviously victims by your accounting.

I am neither full of hatred nor blinded by self rightious convictions. As for victims I dont believe we are victims but we do have the right to protest and raise our voice- Hell its the American way!

Aussies have a more similar history to the Americans than any other. Must be one of the reasons our nations are best of friends. You must hate that too. Hahahaha, must be a bummer to have to live with.

I have no problem with America being an ally- should I?

Let's see how much support you get from you fellow Aussies.

Well I dont see many Americans patting you on the back at the momment.

Sorry for the offense that I gave (except to Muzrub, who deserved it).

You cant certainly cant be called childish can you?.

[ January 06, 2002: Message edited by: Muzrub ]</p>
Harmlessly passing your time in the grassland away;
Only dimly aware of a certain unease in the air.
You better watch out,
There may be dogs about
I've looked over Iraq, and i have seen
Things are not what they seem.


Matrix Axis of Evil
Lokioftheaesir
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Post by Lokioftheaesir »

[QUOTE]Originally posted by shane056:
[QB]What happened to the jokes !!

hehe

Two hunters from Michigan--(true story)
This is from a radio program, a true report of an incident in Michigan:


A guy buys a brand new Lincoln Navigator for $42,500 and has $560 monthly payments.
He and a friend go duck hunting in winter, and of course all the lakes are frozen. These two guys go out on the lake with the guns, the dog, and of course the new vehicle.
They drive out onto the lake ice and get ready. Now, they want to make some kind of a natural landing area for the ducks, something for the decoys to float on. In order to make a hole large enough to look like something a wandering duck would fly down and land on, it is going to take a little more effort than an ice hole drill.
So, out of the back of the new Navigator comes a stick of dynamite with a short, 40-second fuse. Now these two Rocket Scientists do take into consideration that they want to place the stick of dynamite on the ice at a location far from where they are standing (and the new Navigator), because they don't want to take the risk of slipping on the ice when they run from the burning fuse and possibly go up in smoke with the resulting blast.
They light the 40-second fuse and throw the dynamite. Remember a couple of paragraphs back when I mentioned the vehicle, the guns and the dog?
Let's talk about the dog: A highly trained Black Lab used for RETRIEVING. Especially things thrown by the owner. You guessed it, the dog takes off at a high rate of doggy speed on the ice and captures the stick of dynamite with the burning 40-second fuse about the time it hits the ice.
The two men yell, scream, wave their arms and wonder what to do now.
The dog, cheered on, keeps coming. One of the guys grabs the shotgun and shoots the dog. The shotgun is loaded with # 8 buckshot,hardly big enough to stop a Black Lab. The dog stops for a moment, slightly confused, but continues on.
Another shot and this time the dog, still standing, becomes really confused
and of course terrified, thinking these two geniuses have gone insane.
The dog takes off to find cover, under the brand new Navigator.
----BOOM!---- Dog and Navigator are blown to bits and sink to the bottom of the lake in a very large hole, leaving the two idiots standing there with this "I can't believe this happened" look on their faces.
The insurance company says that sinking a vehicle in a lake by
illegal use of explosives is not covered. He still had yet to make the first
of those $560 a month payments!


And you thought your day was not going well?
Gentile or Jew
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,
Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.
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Post by Zakhal() »

Originally posted by Muzrub:
Dont forget American popular culture- destroys more innocents than two bombs and a dresden put together.

Thats so true. Very true. Just look what it did to japanese allready:

http://www.usc.edu/student-affairs/deanshalls/wtf/wtf%2003.htm

(Yatta=Happy)

[ January 06, 2002: Message edited by: Zakhal() ]</p>
RickyB
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Post by RickyB »

Originally posted by Lokioftheaesir:
[QB ----BOOM!---- Dog and Navigator are blown to bits and sink to the bottom of the lake in a very large hole, leaving the two idiots standing there with this "I can't believe this happened" look on their faces.
...

And you thought your day was not going well?[/QB]

Good one. And they probably lost their half a case of Wild Turkey that they hadn't drank yet
<img src="wink.gif" border="0"> .
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Ed Cogburn
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Post by Ed Cogburn »

Posted by Muzrub:
[QB]
I really want to laugh at how so many people blame US business for all the erosion of their country's culture.

Laugh all you want it's a fact!

So the ability of our business sector to successfully sell their products to non-Americans makes Americans bad people somehow?


As for the "saturated with their own pathetic existences" part. I have another reason to dislike your people!


Was this really necessary? BrickReid is trolling
I think and you fell for it, hook, line, and sinker.

So you hate us because there is a McDonalds or two down under? Because your teenagers like blue jeans and Britney Spears? Muzrub, these are not reasons to hate an entire people, if there is such a reason.

There must be demand before there can be supply. Our businesses are just providing products to people who are choosing them over other, perhaps local, options. You have a problem with that, fine, demand that your government block all US products into your country. Ban Britney Spears from appearing down there. Whatever, but hating us because YOUR OWN PEOPLE prefer to buy from US companies rather than from their own is a waste of energy on your part. You'd be better off working to convince the rest of your people of the problem as you see it rather than stoking your hatred of Americans, and the frustration in not being able to stop the culture invasion.

[ January 06, 2002: Message edited by: Ed Cogburn ]</p>
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Post by Ed Cogburn »

Originally posted by Lokioftheaesir:
Originally posted by shane056:
[QB]What happened to the jokes !!

hehe

Two hunters from Michigan--(true story)
This is from a radio program, a true report of an incident in Michigan:


ROFL!!! I do feel sorry for the dog though, it wasn't his fault his master was an idiot. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
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Post by Ed Cogburn »

Originally posted by Zakhal():


Thats so true. Very true. Just look what it did to japanese allready:

http://www.usc.edu/student-affairs/deanshalls/wtf/wtf%2003.htm

(Yatta=Happy)

[ January 06, 2002: Message edited by: Zakhal() ]


Does anyone know what plugin is needed for this page? Netscape shows a box that says "Click Here to download plugin", but clicking doesn't do anything. I'm clueless.
RickyB
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Post by RickyB »

Originally posted by Ed Cogburn:
Does anyone know what plugin is needed for this page? Netscape shows a box that says "Click Here to download plugin", but clicking doesn't do anything. I'm clueless.
Windows Media Player. However, I can't really watch in on my dial up account - it just about requires broadband.

[ January 07, 2002: Message edited by: RickyB ]</p>
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Muzrub
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Post by Muzrub »

So you hate us because there is a McDonalds or two down under? Because your teenagers like blue jeans and Britney Spears? Muzrub, these are not reasons to hate an entire people, if there is such a reason.

I think this really was covered earlier on the thread.
To hate an entire people..... I dont hate an entire people but I dislike Americans who totally deny that American culture can have adverse effects or American business practices (Foriegn Business practices) can have adverse effects on other nations.

There must be demand before there can be supply. Our businesses are just providing products to people who are choosing them over other, perhaps local, options. You have a problem with that, fine, demand that your government block all US products into your country. Ban Britney Spears from appearing down there. Whatever, but hating us because YOUR OWN PEOPLE prefer to buy from US companies rather than from their own is a waste of energy on your part. You'd be better off working to convince the rest of your people of the problem as you see it rather than stoking your hatred of Americans, and the frustration in not being able to stop the culture invasion.

I dont believe that Australians would prefer to buy American- just because its American. I dont believe that American products are any better than ours in anyway. I do dislike the buying of Australian companies changes to our products using American terms or brand names.
I dont really see the need for me to wander the streets with wearing a message board warning everyone that the end is nigh.
Austrlian people are awake today to the changes that are taking place. We have companies that sell a large volume of products only do to the fact they are Australian owned (competing with tariffs and subsidies is still a problem though- but we have covered that before too .... and dont say it Ed- I am not avoiding the issue <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> ).

But the fact remains a cultural invasion is under way and I am one of a very large number of Australians who are aware of it.
Its the attitude of people such a Brick who believe that no such problem exists that annoys me greatly.

I have another reason to dislike your people!

I didnt say hate! I said dislike- and I also explained that comment. I think your use of the word hate in decribing my feelings towards the issue is incorrect.
Harmlessly passing your time in the grassland away;
Only dimly aware of a certain unease in the air.
You better watch out,
There may be dogs about
I've looked over Iraq, and i have seen
Things are not what they seem.


Matrix Axis of Evil
Ed Cogburn
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Post by Ed Cogburn »

Originally posted by RickyB:

Windows Media Player. However, I can't really watch in on my dial up account - it just about requires broadband.


Ok, I'll avoid it too, since I don't have broadband either, but it is strange because I do have WMP installed and working. ??? Go figure.
Ed Cogburn
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Post by Ed Cogburn »

Originally posted by Muzrub:
To hate an entire people..... I dont hate an entire people but I dislike Americans who totally deny that American culture can have adverse effects or American business practices (Foriegn Business practices) can have adverse effects on other nations.


I've got news for you, we exported the "American Business Model" along with everything else, and it became quite popular. <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> Whatever adverse business practices you're talking about, they are now being done by non-American companies all over the world. The US is not unique, or especially evil, in that regard either.


I dont believe that American products are any better than ours in anyway.


I never said they were.


I do dislike the buying of Australian companies changes to our products using American terms or brand names.


You think you're the only one with that problem? Has it ever occurred to you that lots of people around the world would find *American* companies as good buys? A big chunk of what you call the American business community is run by non-Americans, Britain, Japan, and Germany is in the top 5 I believe.


I dont really see the need for me to wander the streets with wearing a message board warning everyone that the end is nigh.


Which proves my point. If all or most Australians felt as you do, you wouldn't be alone in your demonsrations.


(competing with tariffs and subsidies is still a problem though- but we have covered that before too .... and dont say it Ed- I am not avoiding the issue <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> ).


Don't forget there are countries worse than we are when it comes to tariffs.


But the fact remains a cultural invasion is under way and I am one of a very large number of Australians who are aware of it.


I'm back to my earlier point again. Bitching about this to Americans in the WIR forum is an absolute waste of energy. The word "invasion" is the wrong moniker anyway, because no force is being used. Whatever is making it into Australia is getting there because Australians are buying these foreign products and their government is allowing these products in, or Australian companies are being bought out by outsiders which is, last I heard, perfectly legitimate and normal in the Western capitalistic world, just as American companies are being bought by British, Japanese, Germans, etc.


Its the attitude of people such a Brick who believe that no such problem exists that annoys me greatly.


Yea, Brick is adding extra spice to his comments on purpose just to get you to blow up and say something you might later regret, like you "disliking" all Americans for what he, one individual, says. I would prefer it if Brick would take his show to the ArtWar forum, but what he said does not take you off the hook for what you said.

As for "hate" versus "dislike", in to many situations "dislike" is just the politically correct way of saying "hate".

Think about it Muzrub, do you really think bringing up this issue here in this forum is going to accomplish anything good? We Americans know about the resentment of American culture in the rest of the world, but you act as if there was some kind of switch that can turn it on and off. Well, there isn't. There is no conspiricy in the US to destroy other countries' cultures. Our culture that's creeping in isn't doing so because we've got some top secret economic plan of attack to sneak it into your country, its getting in because some Australians somewhere in your country *want* it to. There can't be supply without demand.

[ January 08, 2002: Message edited by: Ed Cogburn ]</p>
BrickReid
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Post by BrickReid »

Originally posted by Ed Cogburn:



I would prefer it if Brick would take his show to the ArtWar forum....

[ January 08, 2002: Message edited by: Ed Cogburn ]

Aw, Ed. C'mon, my posts have added at least a page and a half to this thread. It was dying a natural death before I posted, and now you want me to not stir the pot quite so vigorously.

Ok, I'm just reading now anyway. I got Muzrub to show himself for what he is and I'm done. Never really expect this kind of stuff from an Aussie, though. But, if you can have an American 15 yr old suicide a cessna into the side of a building and carrying a note in his pocket sympathetic to Bin Laden, then you can have just about anything anywhere else, I suppose.
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