Question on Ki-84 Production

[Burkowski]

Just installed 1.6 and am ready to begin a game in which I really try to "manage" Japanese production. Looking over the aircraft factories the value at Gumma for Ki-84 Frank r&d (think it's 320) really stands out above all others.

If I understand correctly, this seems to represent a major effort to get this Army fighter into production well before the probable mid-1944 date. Question for the veterans:

Is it really worth tying up several years of this amount of r&d/production to gain a couple of months of Franks in '44? I know it's a wicked fighter, but wouldn't several years of production of something else be more realistic, given the probable situation in '44? Compromise?Advice? Anyone been there?


Cheers,
Burkowski

[Mike Solli]

I'm getting ready to restart my 2 PBEM games. I've been thinking about aircraft production a lot lately. What I've been considering is to start plane research 3 months + one day per plane, so it would be about 410 days or 14 months prior to their historical deployment of Dec 44. I'm haven't thought it through though. Any thoughts?

[Mike Solli]

I guess I'm wondering if it's reasonable to use the HI and supply that early in the game. It really makes no difference in the long run though, because once it's "repaired", I don't think anything happens until production starts. If you want to produce the Ki-84, keep the factory as is. If not then change it. I'm reluctant to change it because when you change it, production is reduced by about 1/3. That's over 100 planes lost. Granted, the HI hasn't been spent yet, but you do lose supply if you change the factory to something else and then increase the size of the factory.

[doktorblood]

Nothing wicked about Ki-84 in this game, just another overly crappified Jap plane, but I guess it's better than the rest.

I would leave the Frank factory as it is. You don't really need it to produce something else and it's not goning to grow fast enough to eat many supplies early on. R&D factories don't use any HI or engines.

There are plenty of other factories producing stuff you will never need that you can convert, if you must ... 2 Ki27 factories, 1 A5m4, 1 L1N1, 1 F1m2, 2 Ki51, 1 Ki48, 1 Ki36, 1 Ki54, 1 MC21, E14Y and a couple of extra Jake factories if you need them. That's 12 or more idle factorys you could use without touching any R&D factory.

Personally, I just turn all of these off and only convert a few to begin with.

[Mike Solli]

I didn't know r/d factories didn't use HI or engines. Good to know. Thanks.

[CapAndGown]

I have been considering doing some research as well. Does it work?

Specifically, I am interested in the Shinden. Right now it is scheduled to come out just before Japan's historic capitulation date. Kinda late in the day, ne ces pas? But what if everytime 100 points are accumulated the AI rolls a die? Even if the odds are extremely low the further away you are, the more rolls, the better the chance of moving up production. Anyt thoughts? Specifically, is there some period of time before which no advancement in time will take place no matter what?

[Mike Solli]

Ya got me. I haven't a clue. I'm just hoping for the best.

[Culiacan Mexico]

ORIGINAL: Burkowski
...Is it really worth tying up several years of this amount of r&d/production to gain a couple of months of Franks in '44? I know it's a wicked fighter, but wouldn't several years of production of something else be more realistic, given the probable situation in '44? Compromise?Advice? Anyone been there?...

In my experience, Japan doesn’t really face a problem of too few aircraft, but too few qualified pilots, especially in 1944. The only time I really experience an airframe shortage is at the start of the game (Zero’s) and when new aircraft become available for deployment. Temporary issues.

[Burkowski]

Thank you, all, for the feedback... my tendency is to over-manage, even in this monster... there does seem to be consensus, here and in general, that airplane shortage is not the major long-range Japanese problem, so maybe I will just let things be with Ki-84... as noted, there is a lot of other tinkering to be done, both with switching factory products and, now, with changing upgrade paths...

One overall impression I do have, however, is that the variety of the Imperial models should be reduced some, even at the expense of the "brain candy" effect of lots of pretty planes to look at.. seems to me that for transports, for example, it makes a lot more sense to try to pare the numbers down to one or two of the best (range and capacity) and concentrate production/upgrades in that direction... any problem with that approach?

Cheers,
Burkowski

[Rob Brennan UK]

I just had a thought <shock horror> ,, if you say stop hickory production , what about the groups that arrive as new units. if no a/c are in the pool will the computer look for up/dongdrades to get the unit on map or will it sit there froever waiting for a plane that you never produce.

Admittedly reducing the jap transports to tabbys and the converted nells is in theory a great idea.

[tsimmonds]

They just sit there with no planes and no pilots. No great loss. Hickorys are a waste of pilots, IMO. Let them rot.

[doktorblood]

There is one sentai of 36 Hickory in the que(1-15-43) and starts with 26 Ki-54 in the pool. If you want this unit (which can be upgraded to Topsey), you can either.... build 10 more Ki54 along with 20 Hitachi engines or you can make sure you retain at least 36 Ki59 in the pool by upgrading Theresa squadrons to Topsey. The game should "downgrade" the arriving unit to Ki59 if there aren't enough Ki54. Be aware that there only a total number of 38 Ki59 available, so if you lose more than 2 before you get them back in the pool, the second option won't work.

I just go ahead and build the 10 Hickorys and 20 Hitachi engines before switching the engines to Nakajimas. It takes about the first 5 or 6 days of the war to build the engines and about 9 or 10 days to build the Ki54 pool to 36.

[Brady]

Interstingly, afik, their were realy very few Ki-84-Ic's built, Buschell in his book on the Ki-84 lists I beleve a few hundred being built, But a Couple folks I know from another forum who live in Japan have informed me in the past that this model was not realy produced at all in any numbers, Francillion hints at this. So I kinda woundered why the Ki-84-Ic is actualy listed as a Type in Game, it was a subtype and their were a few made, but I am not shure it is worthy of inclushion.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: Brady



Interstingly, afik, their were realy very few Ki-84-Ic's built, Buschell in his book on the Ki-84 lists I beleve a few hundred being built, But a Couple folks I know from another forum who live in Japan have informed me in the past that this model was not realy produced at all in any numbers, Francillion hints at this. So I kinda woundered why the Ki-84-Ic is actualy listed as a Type in Game, it was a subtype and their were a few made, but I am not shure it is worthy of inclushion.

I'd guess that they are included because the game can potentially go through Mar 46.

[Iridium]

You could also ask yourself why the "Kikka" isn't modeled in the game. It was probably just as close to production as the Ki-84-Ic, if not closer...[:D]

I've always wondered why the "Shinden" was modeled, never saw anything stating that it was ready by the wars end.

Edit: I'd guess that "Kikka" isn't modeled due to some idea that Japan was unable to reproduce a jet engine because of it's difficult material shortage or complex design.

[Burkowski]

Sooo... even with the new "change upgrade path" capabilities, do I understand that an air unit like the transports mentioned above would never enter the game at all? It would just languish in "no plane" land and nothing could be done with it?

Regards,

Burkowski