The Italian Job (2) - Comments from the Allies

[mc3744]

September 14th, 1942

IBC
Port Blair operation has been officially put on hold until a new operation in New Guinea can be also initiated.
Training continues nicely.
No. 155 RAF Buffalo’s squadron has reached (80) exp, transferred to Madras and upgraded to Hurricane’s.
73rd BS equipped with B-24D’s has been moved to Ledo to help with supply’s operation of Chungking. Despite the heavy daily bombing (4-500 bombers) supplies keep steady.
No. 605 RAF squadron has also reach (80) and has been upgraded to Spitfire’s.
In Lanchow something unpleasant has happened for the second time. Once the supply level – generated by the city production – reached the minimum required of 10.000+, it dropped down to 1.000+! [:@]

AUSTRALIA - NG - NZ
The next phase of the war will be here (see picture). Between NG and the Solomons.
The Japs have few developed airfields and I can count on some LBA.
My entire US surface fleet is on the way to Sidney.

PACIFIC
The 90th BG equipped with B-24D has ferried from Rarotonga to Auckland.
In SF the 43rd US Div is loading transport ships, destination Eastern Australia.

[Andy Mac]

OK a few things that could be causing the supply decline are.

1. It could be replacing fortifications in the new CHS Chinese Static units if replacements are set to on for any of the fixed fort units and they require replacements of the specuial fort device they will replace them. I think like CD guns these are 9999 ish cost as replacement cost is based on load value. (Not at comp now so not sure)

Not sure if any Fort replacements are in pool though in CHS so may not be this.

2. It could be moving to another city

or 3. it could be a bug

Andy

[AmiralLaurent]

Hi MC, another explanation for the supply decline is that supply went to Chinese units in the area. IIRC a base that is under the requirement doesn't give any supply to unit in or near it?

[mc3744]

Hi guys [:)]

Thanks for the feedback.

Lanchow is surrounded and under siege, hence no way the supplies could move anywhere.

I think the only option (beside a bug) is the replacement issue.
I'll check if any units has special big guns, they are indeed all on replacements on. However in Chungking this does not happen and they are also all on. [&:]

[String]

I'd suggest keeping up some pressure and recon activities around port blair though, sub commandoes, night air attacks (both if allowed by house rules), empty transports running to and fro just at the edge of japanese naval search range, and so on.

[mc3744]

Hey String [:)]

Sensible suggestion [8D]

I'm also sending the Long Island into the the Indian Pond with SBD on board.
Both to try and fish some AVs and to keep at least some CVE/CVL busy there.
If he splits the carrier force I can try and take on him.
If he doesn't I don't stand a chance. I can only try to exploit the absence of the carriers somewhere.

[mc3744]

September 15th, 1942

IBC
I moved some sub patrols nearby Sumatra. They’ve been attacked by dozens of Jap planes [X(]: G3/4M, Float Panes, Val’s even Sally’s. He must have a huge concentration of forces in the Malaya-Sumatra “entrance”.
He is definitely ready to meet any attempt I may make (no wonder). Maybe he is even readying to attack Ceylon or India. I’m re-deploying some fighter squadrons to Ceylon and Madras.
I checked the Chinese units in Lanchow. The biggest guns there are the 105mm howitzers. Would they be enough to suck 10.000 supplies?!? [&:]

AUSTRALIA – NG – NZ
The Dutch Brewster’s training over Exmouth have been ambush by a (179) Zero’s LRCAP. The brave pilots didn’t stand a chance since they had not been alerted by the Intel. (35) excellent pilots died in the ambush. [:(]
A LRCAP of (179) Zero’s means that a major KB is there. It may also mean that he will come for a bombing raid over Geraldton and/or Perth. I’m evacuating all the ships from Geraldton to Perth. Depending on Catalina’s findings I’ll also move out the planes next turn. Brewster’s are no match for Zero’s, even if at the right altitude and playing defence. In Perth I have (19) P-40E’s, (24) F4F-4’s and (16) Kitty’s. Not enough.
If he withdraws I’ll switch to night training. Annoying.

PACIFIC
No news

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The Dutch Brewster’s just before the ambush

[mc3744]

September 17th, 1942

IBC
No news.

AUSTRALIA – NG – NZ
Looks like he was only interested in ambushing my Brewster’s.
I’ve upgraded one squadron of Australian Wirraway’s to Vengeance I, no reason, I just wanted to see it [:)]. You cannot go back, the only other option is a Mosquito version.

PACIFIC
All quiet.

-----------------------------------------------------------

“Developed primarily in response to British interest, Vultee developed a two-seat dive bomber in 1940 which was to become known as the Vengeance. The British Purchasing Commission placed an initial order for 200 aircraft from Vultee along with a further 200 aircraft to be built under license by Northrop. Additional orders then followed. Few of these aircraft actually reached Britain however with almost the entire order being diverted to the Far East for use by RAF, RAAF or Indian Air Force squadrons. A number of aircraft were also retained by the USAAF. In RAF service, Vengeance were operationally employed to good effect in the Burma theatre. As the war progressed, the RAF transferred some Vengeance aircraft to the Fleet Air Arm for use as target tugs. Additionally, some aircraft were used by the RAF in smoke-laying operations.”

[mc3744]

September 23rd, 1942

IBC
The No. 861 Squadron reached (83) exp and has been returned to the Illustrious and upgraded to Seafire’s.
Yesterday the 341st BG has arrived in Karachi, (64) B-25.
It’s been moved to DH and upgraded to B-24D.
The 4E force in the area right now is made up of:
(144) B-24D
(48) LB-30
(96) B-17s
With this amount of heavies I can probably try to hit defended airfields with some chances of scoring good results. The problem resides in the replacement rate.
I have a total of (170) new heavies per month (125+5+40). While, with the customized production, I can bet that GH has – at least – (300) Tony’s and Tojo’s each month. Which means that I have to achieve a ratio of at least 2:1 or I’m losing. I could add to that an escort of P-38, which would bring the total replacement to (245), but I’m still way beyond anything the Japs can produce. Especially if I also consider the A6M production.
Hurricane’s and Spit’s only count in defense.
Amazingly the US production can’t keep up with the Jap one. [:-]
On top of that the bombings mainly kill planes and not pilots, the only thing he could get short of.
I don’t see a way to reach a ratio of 3 or 4:1, playing attack, anytime soon.
With the FDC there’s no limit to massing planes hence the total production is what really counts, airfields size and location plays a minor role. As long as I hit with everything I have and he defends with everything he has, I’m loosing.
I still believe that the FDC alters the game too much. There’s no trade off in airfields between fighters, bombers and recons. Airfield size doesn't matter as long as it is >4. You just mass everything you need.

AUSTRALIA - NG - NZ
Yorktown, Lexington and Saratoga are in Sidney.
PM has (5) units defending it.

PACIFIC
No news.

---------------------------------------

Fighter squadrons situation

[Kereguelen]

ORIGINAL: mc3744
On top of that the bombings mainly kill planes and not pilots, the only thing he could get short of.

Sorry, but he'll never suffer from a pilot shortage. There're unlimited pilots in the game for both sides. He'll simply train up rookies by attacking your undefended bases behind his lines...

With the FDC there’s no limit to massing planes hence the total production is what really counts, airfields size and location plays a minor role. As long as I hit with everything I have and he defends with everything he has, I’m loosing.

Yes, the simple logic of air combat in WITP lies in massing planes and overhelming the opponent with sheer numbers. This works to his favour now, later (from second half of 1943) it will work for you. But currently he simply needs to mass some hundred planes at some airfield[:(]

K

[mc3744]

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen

ORIGINAL: mc3744
On top of that the bombings mainly kill planes and not pilots, the only thing he could get short of.

Sorry, but he'll never suffer from a pilot shortage. There're unlimited pilots in the game for both sides. He'll simply train up rookies by attacking your undefended bases behind his lines...

With the FDC there’s no limit to massing planes hence the total production is what really counts, airfields size and location plays a minor role. As long as I hit with everything I have and he defends with everything he has, I’m loosing.

Yes, the simple logic of air combat in WITP lies in massing planes and overhelming the opponent with sheer numbers. This works to his favour now, later (from second half of 1943) it will work for you. But currently he simply needs to mass some hundred planes at some airfield[:(]

K

Hi K [:)]

Let's talk theory, this match is as it is.

I have 5 other games running. In all of them (but one) we stick to the airfield size limit and the game has a completely different flavour. It's not about sheer numbers. You have to decide whether you want to defend or attack or torpeado or ASW ... You can't do everything from a size 4 airfiled, you have to make choices. You need to develop multiple airfields for mutual protection, .... And IMHO it provides a more interesting game: we both get chances to play.
This way the one with the biggest number gets to play, the other watches. Of course the fact that I'm loosing affects my feeling [;)]. Still I'm quite sure I won't enjoy bombing him with 1.000 heavies, in a few months from now. Although that's obviously the way to go.
A few months ago I posted about "Is it fun in '44 for ther Allies?" for this precise reason.

I may also add that the FDC alters completely the structure of the game and its reality. Since the Allies cannot alter production with FDC Japan becomes even more the industrial power as opposed to the US.

Anyway, in this match I'll have to wait till I got the numbers. It's going to take a while [:'(]

[Kereguelen]

Hi,

I've faced one PBEM opponent (a very good player, comparable to GH in many aspects) who used the same tactics as GH. As a result, that game was somewhat flawed. I could not (and did not) accuse my opponent of gameyness (hm, wonder if one could find this word in a dictonary?) but I became somewhat frustrated because I always had the feeling that this (attacks by hundreds of planes from relatively small airfields) was not realistic at all (the game was terminated due to too many bugs occurring).

In my other PBEM (started under patch 1.2, about a year ago) the problem of overwhelming plane numbers does not occur. Neighter me nor Mogami uses this tactic, and we don't have any (!) houserules. Nevertheless, air strikes with more than hundred planes are the exception in that game and we never use large night-bombing attacks (it never seemed to be realistic to me, cannot talk for Mog, but he seems to have a similar overall approach to the game) even if we both use night-bombing at times. Thus it seems that the game works very well (and in a realistic way) if both players have a similar understanding of what is realistic play and what is tweaking the mechanics of the game engine.

But I think that one (working) solution for the problems coming with massive airstrikes would be to simply reduce the number of available aviation support (for both players), base forces are too plentiful and too large in this regard. And one would not need one more houserule.

K

[mc3744]

I agree.

In the last three games I started, I asked for the airfield stacking rule. Due to this experience.
In the first one however (started under 1.1 [8D]) we have no formal rule, we just avoid overstacking 'naturally'.
It doesn't feel right.
In this game I still can't get used to it. Yesterday I wanted to bomb Moulmein and I spread all the bombers through Akyab, Chandpur and Imphal. I forgot once again that I could stack them all in Akyab. [8|]

I also don't use night bombings, or very seldom, in the other PBEMs. In this game I felt it was the only option left if I wanted to play a bit.

Initially I was obviously not prepared for this tactic, I had in fact developed all the Indian border airfields to be able to use more planes. Rather useless with hindsight, I could speed up a couple and forget about the others.

Well, anyway I need to get used to it. If you see I forget please remind me [:D]

Cheers

[hawker]

I never put many bombers in small airfields.Its a gamey tactics.In my current game against GH i can put 400+bombers in Khota Baru and Singapore will be in peaces,but it isnt realistic.The rule are:size of airfield x 40(top).I think that is solution for more realistic game.

[mc3744]

ORIGINAL: hawker

I never put many bombers in small airfields.Its a gamey tactics.In my current game against GH i can put 400+bombers in Khota Baru and Singapore will be in peaces,but it isnt realistic.The rule are:size of airfield x 40(top).I think that is solution for more realistic game.

The rule I follow is the one of the game: airfield size*50.

Anyway I would advise you to use FDC with GH, he is surely going to use it against you.

[Tom Hunter]

I never overstack the airfields because I am afraid to.

As to there being too much AV support, what are you guys smoking? I lose more planes than anyone and I never have enough.

[mc3744]

What are you afraid of?

Actually I'm a not smoker [;)]
Anyway I wouldn't say that the main topic of the brief discussion was AV points, which btw I don't think they are too many, but I really haven't got a clue about the reality on this topic.
It rather was the effect on the game balance of massing airplanes, at least that was my point.
And with FDC you actually need even less AV points anyway.

Cheers ... I know you are a Hoepner fanboy [:D]

[mc3744]

November 26th, 1942

IBC
Jap planes appeared in Kunming. Dinah are for sure, I saw them on recon.
I usually send all my bombers to attack whatever airport gets airplanes within (8) range of my Indian airfields. However GH must have gotten it by now. Hence I may find a huge CAP or LRCAP.
Hence this time I’m only doing recon, to verify the situation. Meanwhile most of my fighter squadrons have been moved to Imphal, Dimapur and Ledo on 90% CAP, just in case.
93rd Chinese/A Division has unloaded in Colombo, to beef up the two Bde’s already there.

AUSTRALIA – NG – NZ
Moving troops, planes and ships to prepare for the attack on NG … one day [:)]

PACIFIC
BBs South Dakota and Washington are leaving PH, destination Australia.

[mc3744]

November 27th, 1942

IBC
As expected I found a CAP of (44) Tony’s over Kunming. He is eventually trying to regain control over the Indian border skies. I was wondering why he hadn’t come yet.
I’m hoping he’ll try to bomb my airfields. This way I can eventually use my fighters, otherwise they are useless.
I don’t think he’ll bomb immediately, hence I’m still keeping some squadrons in reserve, not to show the entire force. I’m also moving backward some training units and I’ve switched training to night.
Chungking is at 20k supplies. At 26k it’ll be in full supply.
In a month I’ll have the AVG converted to P-38 and I’ll be able to start thinking 'offensive'.

AUSTRALIA – NG – NZ
In Sidney there is now a considerable Navy Force.
(6) CVs, (9) BBs, (16) CAs, (15) CLs and (45) DDs. As soon as the units previously engaged in central Australia will be in Townsville I may try to attack PM. Before he reinforces the area too much. But I haven’t made up my mind yet.
The CVE Long Island is moving to Perth with a small escort to try to hit some AV/AK in the Indian Pond.

PACIFIC
Bora Bora is now completely expended and I’m moving Seabees from Palmyra and Bora to Australia.

[mc3744]

Hey Tom [:)]

Why are you afraid of overstacking?
What am I missing?

Please [&o] I promise I won't tell GH [;)] [:D]