The Italian Job 2- Gen.Hoepner(J)-vs.-Mc3744

[Gen.Hoepner]

MC is in stand by mode for few days....

[ChezDaJez]

Hi, GH.

Is your game on hold? Or have you guys decided to set it aside?

Chez

[Gen.Hoepner]

Max had some problems in RL before Christmas. Now he's back and we started again. I've been in and out for some holydays, but by the beginning of Jan we'll be again on our usual pace.

[ChezDaJez]

Thanks.

Looking forward to reading your AARs again. Hope everything has worked out for Max.

Chez

[Gen.Hoepner]

...Japan has any chance in 1943...

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 03/26/43

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Day Air attack on Hanoi , at 36,37

Japanese aircraft
J2M Jack x 23
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 35
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 27
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 128

Allied aircraft
Catalina I x 6
Wellington III x 93
P-38G Lightning x 48
B-17E Fortress x 96

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M Jack: 3 destroyed, 15 damaged
Ki-44-IIb Tojo: 9 destroyed, 18 damaged
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 6 destroyed, 15 damaged
Ki-61 KAIc Tony: 39 destroyed, 51 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Catalina I: 2 destroyed
Wellington III: 58 destroyed
P-38G Lightning: 48 destroyed
B-17E Fortress: 28 destroyed, 40 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
137 casualties reported
Guns lost 6

Airbase hits 13
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 29

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x Wellington III bombing at 14000 feet
1 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
2 x Wellington III bombing at 9000 feet
2 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
15 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 6000 feet
16 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 15000 feet
1 x Wellington III bombing at 19000 feet
3 x Wellington III bombing at 14000 feet
3 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
1 x Wellington III bombing at 9000 feet
1 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
3 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
8 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 6000 feet
5 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 15000 feet
2 x Wellington III bombing at 14000 feet
2 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
3 x Wellington III bombing at 19000 feet
2 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
2 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
1 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
4 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 6000 feet
5 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 15000 feet
2 x Wellington III bombing at 9000 feet
2 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Hanoi , at 36,37

Japanese aircraft
J2M Jack x 10
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 16
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 11
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 48

Allied aircraft
Liberator VI x 81
P-38G Lightning x 72
LB-30 Liberator x 48
B-24D Liberator x 186
IL-4c x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M Jack: 9 destroyed
Ki-44-IIb Tojo: 20 destroyed
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 9 destroyed
Ki-61 KAIc Tony: 80 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Liberator VI: 6 destroyed, 17 damaged
P-38G Lightning: 19 destroyed, 16 damaged
LB-30 Liberator: 4 destroyed, 7 damaged
B-24D Liberator: 9 destroyed, 30 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
809 casualties reported
Guns lost 11

Airbase hits 54
Airbase supply hits 17
Runway hits 345

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B-24D Liberator bombing at 6000 feet
12 x IL-4c bombing at 6000 feet
5 x Liberator VI bombing at 20000 feet
4 x Liberator VI bombing at 25000 feet
9 x Liberator VI bombing at 15000 feet
4 x Liberator VI bombing at 10000 feet
6 x Liberator VI bombing at 20000 feet
12 x B-24D Liberator bombing at 6000 feet
27 x LB-30 Liberator bombing at 6000 feet
9 x B-24D Liberator bombing at 6000 feet
4 x B-24D Liberator bombing at 6000 feet
10 x B-24D Liberator bombing at 6000 feet
36 x B-24D Liberator bombing at 6000 feet
17 x B-24D Liberator bombing at 6000 feet
3 x IL-4c bombing at 6000 feet
5 x B-24D Liberator bombing at 6000 feet
3 x Liberator VI bombing at 20000 feet
6 x Liberator VI bombing at 25000 feet
2 x Liberator VI bombing at 15000 feet
4 x Liberator VI bombing at 10000 feet
2 x Liberator VI bombing at 6000 feet
3 x Liberator VI bombing at 20000 feet
3 x Liberator VI bombing at 28000 feet
3 x B-24D Liberator bombing at 6000 feet
8 x LB-30 Liberator bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-24D Liberator bombing at 6000 feet
4 x B-24D Liberator bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-24D Liberator bombing at 6000 feet
11 x B-24D Liberator bombing at 6000 feet
6 x B-24D Liberator bombing at 6000 feet
3 x Liberator VI bombing at 20000 feet
2 x B-24D Liberator bombing at 6000 feet
3 x Liberator VI bombing at 25000 feet
3 x Liberator VI bombing at 15000 feet
3 x Liberator VI bombing at 10000 feet
3 x Liberator VI bombing at 6000 feet
3 x Liberator VI bombing at 20000 feet
3 x Liberator VI bombing at 28000 feet
4 x LB-30 Liberator bombing at 6000 feet
4 x B-24D Liberator bombing at 6000 feet
4 x B-24D Liberator bombing at 6000 feet
12 x B-24D Liberator bombing at 6000 feet
3 x Liberator VI bombing at 25000 feet
3 x LB-30 Liberator bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-24D Liberator bombing at 6000 feet
6 x B-24D Liberator bombing at 6000 feet
2 x B-24D Liberator bombing at 6000 feet
2 x LB-30 Liberator bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-24D Liberator bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-24D Liberator bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-24D Liberator bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-24D Liberator bombing at 6000 feet
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Hanoi was defended by THE BEST AIR FORCE i could master!
Every single air group was above 80 exp.
The best fighters available ( as you can see).
2 Air HQs; 500 Air Support; 400 Engeneers

Results? Base closed ( 100 dmg Runaway, 100 Air facilities), fighter groups depleted and destroyed and skies over Indochina full of allied planes.

Is there a way to fight the allies in 1943? I don't see how....

With 2 waves he managed to destroy the best air force i could master.....DEPRESSING

[jwilkerson]

Is there a way to fight the allies in 1943? I don't see how....

What I do is fight by mostly NOT fighting. I have gotten 2 games to 43 and 1 to 44 ... and the pattern is the same ... be very selective in your fighting. Deny the big jumps ( as long as you can ) but yeild without fighting in the air ... those things that cannot be defended. So as soon as the P38s strike a place - pull out. Now I operate recon and transports forward of this area .. but not fighters or bombers ... But in SEA once he breaks through to Bankok he can send some guys towards Singapore and others towards Siagon/Hanoi and then you are toast. He can then take out all of SEA and then Palembang .. then you are living on fumes. It you have 1 million plus of oil and resources at this point and also 1 million plus heavy industry ... I'd say you can hold out for about 6 months .. but you have to cut back all production other than the best air and some supply. No more boats ( ok maybe a DD or 2 ).
I have been able to make people "pay" during their ampibs ... by saturating the area with LBA, carriers and surface units right after a landing goes in ... I can usually get in a good bit of damage when they are most vulnerable. But once the level 4 pops up with 100 P38s ... then outta there and pull back out of range and rebuild for the next one. At least I think I can limit advance to 5 hexes per attack ( whereas if I lose the fleet or the Frances/Zero force ) then I can't even limit the pace of advance.
I launched attack with 1000 Frances/Zero and got 2 Torp hits and 1 Kamikaze hit and lost 500 planes. This is about as good as it gets in 44 ...
In '43 I sank several BB and Carriers ( and piles of merchantment ) during landings ... so .. you can't fight .. but no you can't win ...
it is all about delay ... how long can you hold out ?

[invernomuto]

Hi, General,
If I were in you, I would simply stop playing. This game is totally unbalanced. I do not know if it is PDUs, replacement rate, overstaking or simply bad design, it is simply impossible to continue. You did much better than history, you have experienced pilots and the best aircrafts avaliable, but still in early 1943 Allies are unstoppable and could close your best defended A/F with one sortie.

[Gen.Hoepner]

i'll keep on playing. MC deserves his victories after 8 months of gameplay. It's quite boring cause there's really nothing i can do, but what has begun needs to be finished.

[Fishbed]

But cant you add at least some additionnal houserules? About the use of the heavies for instance? Im with invernomuto on this point, it is particularly frustrating for anyone who is following your AAR to see you destroyed in such a silly way. I mean, we all now WiP is not historical, but this game has turned into something like a joke, and I can't believe MC is really happy to win playing this way... is he? [:(]

[jwilkerson]

My opponents all seem to have the "illusion" that I can do something. So I call it "smoke and mirrors" ... about all we can do is feed the "smoke and mirrors" illusion, that we can do something. Keep training your pilots, repairing your ships, building your defenses in the rear areas, hauling your items around and looking for opportunities to "test" the enemy. It has little to do with PDU on .. I play with it off in all my games, might be why GH's game in 1943 seems to feel about like mine in 1944 .. but you get to the same place which ever path you choose. It is the air model which allows "uber air battles" ... primarily ... and secondarily the "uber bombardments" and no protection for any supply ... opponents can bomb or bombard your supply down to zero in a hex very quickly and then attack. No defense is really possible under those circumstances. No "Okinawas" in this game !

[Gen.Hoepner]

A quick update.

5th of Aprile 1943

The allies are pushing everywhere.

The whole Malaya ( Singapore included) is under their controll.
Palemband fell today and now everything north of thi oil center is in allied hands.

Timor is completely conquered. Fighters and bombers based at Lautern,Dili and Koepang.

Lae and Shortlands fell in the last weeks. 4Es from PM close every base till Wewak( so to say everything south of Truk).


The only good news is that the WHOLE China has now been conquered.....but in terms of strategical balance this doesn't change nothing.

I do not know if it's worth to keep this AAR open....the match's fate is already well written...

[String]

it would be interestin to watch if you can hold him a while when he hits your defenses. Try to use mutually supportive bases etc.

[ChezDaJez]

Hi GH,

I've enjoyed reading this AAR a lot. I hope you will continue to update it, at least with strategic news. I've learned quite a bit just from observing the various battles and have been able to draw some conclusions for use in my own games.

Chez

[jwilkerson]

This looks pretty darn familiar !!! Could almost be my game with Testarossa though we got to Jan 1944 before I ( Japanese ) called it ... he was within a week of being able to bomb Palembang from Malaya ... and no defense was possible .. I had earlier tried to defend Balikpapan to get another load of oil/resources out. I succeeded in my purpose but it cost 800 Tony, Tojo, Oscar, Zero lost over about a week .. in exchange for about 120 P38 and maybe 60 B24 ... an exchange ratio that is NOT favorable for the Japanese !

I'd say post about weekly or when ever something exciting happens .. a lot of folks have never made it to this part of the game .. so it will help them "prepare themselves" mentally for when they do get there !