Betty Bombers

[06 Maestro]

I’m having some difficulty in getting successful naval attacks with my Betty’s. I have lost over one hundred planes w/o getting a single hit (on heavy naval units). Is there a preferred altitude for naval attack with this aircraft? Perhaps it should only be used against land targets and/or merchant marine. I’m all ears.. [&:]

[ChezDaJez]

If at normal range, Bettys will attack ships at 200 feet with torpedoes. Altitude assignment doesn't matter. If they are at extended range, they attack with bombs and altitude does matter, the lower the better. However, if its naval vessels being attacked with bombs, its best to stay 10000' or higher even though you will have a reduced chance to hit.

Bettys have low durability and get tore up at low altitudes. Make sure its a target worth hitting.

Chez

[rroberson]

Betty bombers represent your greatest threat to allied naval shipping in game. I outta know they have cost me quite a few carriers. How do you have them set up? Are you going against hard targets (heavily CAPed carriers) or soft ones...APs bobbing around?

[06 Maestro]

The target was a carrier battle group. I didn't realize it at the time, but there were 4 CV's with plenty of CA and at least 2 BB. I sent in a good amount of zeros', but couldn't exceed about 2/3rds of the Wildcat CAP. I knew that there would be heavy losses, but I expected to get a good hit or two.
Perhaps it's just a case of too little, too late. The fleet was just sitting there, right in my front yard, [:@]daring me, cursing me;[:@] I had to swat it, but it swat me back.[X(]

[06 Maestro]

The attacks were all within "normal range", so I guess they went in with torpedo attacks. I suppose that the main reason for failure was the lack of adequate fighter cover.

[Gen.Hoepner]

Was The experience high enough? I'd say that to be sure of hitting an allied CV with adequate fighting cover, you need to have your betties at least at 80 exp. With that ratings, even with a small zero cover, you should be able to sneak few of them through the CAP and succesfully attack his CVs...

However, in your case, if nothing else, i'd say bad dice and roll

[06 Maestro]

I would like to post their overal ratings, but I can't because they are no more.[:@]

[Hornblower]

agreed, in early '42 they cost me more ships in the DEI then i can even count.....

[Bliztk]

4 Carrier TFs, with at least 3xCAs and 2xCL/CLAA per TF, 70% CAP avg pilot exp 77 (now in 80s)

The betties were at normal range, but the Zeroes were at long range, that could explain things [:'(]

[06 Maestro]

Turn 49 in you mail box. The Betties live! They just landed about 6 big fish into some Ap's headed for PM-the struggle continues. The Betties are fine now.

[Bliztk]

Turn into your mailbox, wait until I unleash my "strategic reserve" of 170 heavies [8|]

[ChezDaJez]

BliztK said:

The betties were at normal range, but the Zeroes were at long range, that could explain things

Maestro 06: That's one thing you might want to consider. Set your Bettys to a max range of 8 along with your A6M2 Zeros when going against any target with CAP. That way the Zeros will also be at normal range. You'll have to reduce it if you are using A6M3s.

The best aircraft to us against Allied carriers are Kates. They will get hits assuming you can protect them with a decent escort.

This is an example of what can be done iwith them f you play your cards right. I used land based fighters set to sweep to attrite his CAP first. I lost over 50 land-based fighters but he lost over 40 CAP. In the end he had nothing left overhead of his carriers. Then Hiryu, Soryu and 3 CVLs launched while 3 CVEs provided CAP over my carriers. (The date is mid October 1942).

Day Air attack on TF, near Pomala at 32,69

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 48
D3A Val x 55
B5N Kate x 82

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A Val: 1 destroyed, 15 damaged
B5N Kate: 8 destroyed, 44 damaged

Allied Ships
CV Illustrious, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
CVL Hermes, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 2, on fire
CV Wasp, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
CLAA Columbo, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Unfortunately, his other two carriers, Enterprise and Indomitable escaped a later attack with only minor damage. Both Illustrious and Wasp sank. Hermes was hit again in a second attack and is now DIW and burning. It did help that I caught him in a base hex, supporting his invasion fleet. That meant he couldn't launch a full strike at me. As it was he did put 2 bombs on Hiryu for 24 sys dam but that was it.

I also had around 50 Bettys ready to fly from Kendari. Unfortunately, my opponent saw that I had just moved them in and countered with heavy bombers from Koepang. I lost 31 Bettys or his ships would have been hurt a lot worse.

Chez

[06 Maestro]

ORIGINAL: Bliztk

Turn into your mailbox, wait until I unleash my "strategic reserve" of 170 heavies [8|]

I refuse to look.[:o] I;m done for the night[&o]. Maybe the bombers won't be there tomorrow-that's it!; after all, tomorrow is another day![8|]

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: ChezDaJez


BliztK said:

The betties were at normal range, but the Zeroes were at long range, that could explain things

Maestro 06: That's one thing you might want to consider. Set your Bettys to a max range of 8 along with your A6M2 Zeros when going against any target with CAP. That way the Zeros will also be at normal range. You'll have to reduce it if you are using A6M3s.

The best aircraft to us against Allied carriers are Kates. They will get hits assuming you can protect them with a decent escort.

This is an example of what can be done iwith them f you play your cards right. I used land based fighters set to sweep to attrite his CAP first. I lost over 50 land-based fighters but he lost over 40 CAP. In the end he had nothing left overhead of his carriers. Then Hiryu, Soryu and 3 CVLs launched while 3 CVEs provided CAP over my carriers. (The date is mid October 1942).

Day Air attack on TF, near Pomala at 32,69

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 48
D3A Val x 55
B5N Kate x 82

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A Val: 1 destroyed, 15 damaged
B5N Kate: 8 destroyed, 44 damaged

Allied Ships
CV Illustrious, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
CVL Hermes, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 2, on fire
CV Wasp, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
CLAA Columbo, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Unfortunately, his other two carriers, Enterprise and Indomitable escaped a later attack with only minor damage. Both Illustrious and Wasp sank. Hermes was hit again in a second attack and is now DIW and burning. It did help that I caught him in a base hex, supporting his invasion fleet. That meant he couldn't launch a full strike at me. As it was he did put 2 bombs on Hiryu for 24 sys dam but that was it.

I also had around 50 Bettys ready to fly from Kendari. Unfortunately, my opponent saw that I had just moved them in and countered with heavy bombers from Koepang. I lost 31 Bettys or his ships would have been hurt a lot worse.

Chez

You set your land based fighters to sweep and they attacked the carrier TF? Never heard of that. I always thought they would only attack an airfield on sweep. Or did you assign them to escort a small number of land based bombers?

[Feinder]

Chez,

You said the best accuracy alt is 10,000'. I thought it was 6,000'. Are you sure it's 10k?

-F-

[Sardaukar]

ORIGINAL: Feinder

Chez,

You said the best accuracy alt is 10,000'. I thought it was 6,000'. Are you sure it's 10k?

-F-

Bets accuracy is probably at 6000 ft...but if you want to survive flak, fly 10 000 ft..[:D]. Bombers hit well from there too.

[Big B]

ORIGINAL: ChezDaJez

If at normal range, Bettys will attack ships at 200 feet with torpedoes. Altitude assignment doesn't matter.

Chez

Just a side note here, Bettys (and Sallys) attack with torps at normal range, Great! That's what I have seen in all my games - and they torpedo lots of ships all the time...fine.

But why is it then that equivelant allied bombers have to go through no less than 7 checks to have a chance of carrying 1000lb bombs for anti-shipping? That don't seem right.

Not directed at you Chez..

B

[06 Maestro]

In my recent fiasco, the Betties were flying from Rabul and Lae. Lae was beyond any fighter escort, so those came in alone. The Rabul bombers had an escort, but it was on the edge of extended range-and those were the weakest fighter units (would adjust that next time). In this same strike I had 27 vals and 25 Zeros' 3 hexes away which participated in the big strike also-those units also took over 50% loss with out scoring a hit. This was a battle that should not have been fought.

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: Big B

ORIGINAL: ChezDaJez

If at normal range, Bettys will attack ships at 200 feet with torpedoes. Altitude assignment doesn't matter.

Chez

Just a side note here, Bettys (and Sallys) attack with torps at normal range, Great! That's what I have seen in all my games - and they torpedo lots of ships all the time...fine.

But why is it then that equivelant allied bombers have to go through no less than 7 checks to have a chance of carrying 1000lb bombs for anti-shipping? That don't seem right.

Not directed at you Chez..

B

Good question but I thought every bomber regardless of nationality did this in an attempt to simulate some sort of production/availability limitation on torps. Are you saying that once again Japan gets some sort of freebie?

[Big B]

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

ORIGINAL: Big B

ORIGINAL: ChezDaJez

If at normal range, Bettys will attack ships at 200 feet with torpedoes. Altitude assignment doesn't matter.

Chez

Just a side note here, Bettys (and Sallys) attack with torps at normal range, Great! That's what I have seen in all my games - and they torpedo lots of ships all the time...fine.

But why is it then that equivelant allied bombers have to go through no less than 7 checks to have a chance of carrying 1000lb bombs for anti-shipping? That don't seem right.

Not directed at you Chez..

B

Good question but I thought every bomber regardless of nationality did this in an attempt to simulate some sort of production/availability limitation on torps. Are you saying that once again Japan gets some sort of freebie?

In the games I've played - I don't recall ever seeing Bettys or Sallys attack ships with bombs - always it has been torpedos (probably because my oppenent attacks at normal range).