Comments on 8.403?

SPWaW is a tactical squad-level World War II game on single platoon or up to an entire battalion through Europe and the Pacific (1939 to 1945).

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Goblin
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RE: Comments on 8.043?

Post by Goblin »

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin
...but the changes that were made over the years to increase play-balance for PBEM purposes have been mostly removed --this is what fouled-up the "vs AI" routines.

I really don't think the changes made over the years were intended for this, since pricing got increasingly out of whack with performance. the OOB teams seem to have said, 'This isn't what I pictured should happen', then changed some numbers, or 'People are buying to many of these units in their own private games! I will put a stop to that and make a 75mmRR cost twice as much as an 88!'. I don't see the changes as related to PBEM play at all.

Discounting people's (legitimate, IMO) concerns at what ratings are set at does not solve anything either. If you look at this thread : tm.asp?m=1038399 you will see the starting morale and experience for Korp's troops is in the 20's. How many battles will they fight before they are 'veteran' troops? 25? 50? 100? Hardly realistic. The numbers were originally set by a man, who picked them out of the air based on things he had read. For every thing that was written about the poor performance of 'minor' nations' troops, you can find something where they stood and fought tenaciously too. Not only is 20 an insult to their soldiers that fought well, its even more of an insult to their elite units, who might be lucky to score a 30, and it makes the game unplayable against any opponent, including the AI.


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Alby
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RE: Comments on 8.043?

Post by Alby »

some excellent points there Gob

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FNG
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RE: Comments on 8.043?

Post by FNG »

Dragging this thread back on track..... [;)]

I may have muddied the water by simultaneously upgrading and installing the Depot multi-mod, so I'm not entirely convinced which change has caused the effects I'm seeing. And even then, it could just be a run of coincidences...

First of all, my major problem with spotting is fixed - no more hawk-eyed tankers spotting low-profile, dug-in ATGs from 1000 yards etc. This has massively improved things.

The two odd things that I have noticed are:

1. LOTS of artillery breakdowns. I'm playing Brits at the moment and all artillery seems to have a high incidence of breakdowns - this is when using 25-lbers, 2" and 3" mortars.

2. Pzkw-IIc and SdKfz-251 take a massive amount of killing with the Mk IX 2-lber. Lots of penetrating hits, lots of "<insert vehicle part here> damaged" messages - I am more likely to kill a Pzkw-IIIg frontally with less hits than it takes for either of these (from any angle). It could just be that the AI has been really lucky [:)]

Neither of these are game breakers for me, but I'll post again if I notice any change to the situation (which would imply that AI has been lucky up to now).

One other thing - I very briefly dabbled with some German/Soviet tests and IMHO the T-34 is getting killed too frequently by medium range frontal shots from the 50mm L/42 KwK. This feels ahistorical to me, but could just be due to a lack of prolonged tests. If I get around to doing some more, I'll be a bit more scientific!

Overall though, the latest mech.exe and the Multi Mod are an excellent step in the continuing genesis of this magnificent game. My thanks to all involved.
FNG
Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt.
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Alby
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RE: Comments on 8.043?

Post by Alby »

ORIGINAL: FNG

Dragging this thread back on track..... [;)]

I may have muddied the water by simultaneously upgrading and installing the Depot multi-mod, so I'm not entirely convinced which change has caused the effects I'm seeing. And even then, it could just be a run of coincidences...

First of all, my major problem with spotting is fixed - no more hawk-eyed tankers spotting low-profile, dug-in ATGs from 1000 yards etc. This has massively improved things.

The two odd things that I have noticed are:

1. LOTS of artillery breakdowns. I'm playing Brits at the moment and all artillery seems to have a high incidence of breakdowns - this is when using 25-lbers, 2" and 3" mortars.

2. Pzkw-IIc and SdKfz-251 take a massive amount of killing with the Mk IX 2-lber. Lots of penetrating hits, lots of "<insert vehicle part here> damaged" messages - I am more likely to kill a Pzkw-IIIg frontally with less hits than it takes for either of these (from any angle). It could just be that the AI has been really lucky [:)]

Neither of these are game breakers for me, but I'll post again if I notice any change to the situation (which would imply that AI has been lucky up to now).

One other thing - I very briefly dabbled with some German/Soviet tests and IMHO the T-34 is getting killed too frequently by medium range frontal shots from the 50mm L/42 KwK. This feels ahistorical to me, but could just be due to a lack of prolonged tests. If I get around to doing some more, I'll be a bit more scientific!

Overall though, the latest mech.exe and the Multi Mod are an excellent step in the continuing genesis of this magnificent game. My thanks to all involved.
Actually FNG, none of these odd things that has happened to you, was even touched in the new mech.exe as far as I am aware..[&:]

perhaps you just ran into some bad luck.
But the 2LBer does have an AP penetration of 60
which would easily destroy halftracks and the PzII.
weapons malfunctions is a random thing.

hope this helps.
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RE: Comments on 8.043?

Post by soldier »

Ive played a little bit of the new patch and so far from game play perspective it seems to work allright. Super spotting tanks isn't a problem anymore so thats back to how things should be. Also the SIGs can't waste troops in off target hexes with super splash damage anymore, It takes some getting used too but I was beginning to aim wide on purpose with those things to get more kills.
Has anyone tested the changes in lessened damage to other units in a target hex ? I have noticed in some previous versions when 2 troops are in the same hex and you assault them with infantry the non targetted unit some times springs top life and belts you hard. I didn't like this, especially if they were already supressed and thought the change might increase this effect but havn't noticed it so far. Overall it seems better than 8.4 especially for the infantry.
As for the batch options, I'm still undecided. I disagree with Soviets getting less artillery and MG ammo while everyone else gets standard and see no justification for it. I like the idea of standardised pricing but see some oddities. Artillery is now bargain basement prices especially the heavy guns ($80) and have even seen plane sections pricing at $350 to $400 (see sturmovik, Beufighter X and mosquito), maybe some tweaking here would be an idea. Still getting one shot kills with the new settings so havn't noticed too much change there but havn't really tested it fully. And these are only optional anyway. As always the passenger casualties and sniper assault changes are Awsome improvements.
Sorry but I still HATE the new historical ratings
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RE: Comments on 8.043?

Post by VikingNo2 »

Ok KG I explain a little, First the game change than people researched and put in where not for PBEMs it was for the whole game. Granted many came for results and playing PBEM games, but I put this question to you; Do you think that a unit and its capabilities can be shown best by AI or a Human ?

Now if you turn Nations Ratings off then your are just playing with peices and you get none of the national flavor of a country a very strong feature of the game. Also when playing a PBEM you have to have a least two people to agree on what things should be when playing against the AI its you and you alone. As most threads point out its very hard to get two people to agree on anything. This 'programmers convention" thing is this just a fancey way of saying orignal game design. If it is I think that term should be used because the first terms makes it sound like a bunch of programers got together and studied the game.

A lot of hard work and discussion went on. We ask as a community to put some things back (casualties on riders for example) We all are greatful that the game was revisted by the powers that have that ability. But the one big issue that keeps coming up is the new values of the counties, base values exp, moral, leadeship. I could not find anywhere that these values needed to be changed, to where the majority went down. Please show me where that was brought up, show me before that change was made not after the change and people defending it. The fire control and Range finding are nothing comparied to rating that makes a country almost unplayable due to how the game relates to values in the 30s and 40s

If we want to go back the the original FC and RFs that the game was originally desighed for than wouldn't it be logical to go back to the original Exp, moral and leadership?
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RE: Comments on 8.043?

Post by Goblin »

JJ,

The numbers as they exist now are the original game numbers, as I understand it. They were obviously adjusted over the years towards more realistic numbers.




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John Galt
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RE: Comments on 8.403?

Post by John Galt »

This thing is killing me. I have logged in, relogged and even made a new login, but I don't see a version 8.403. All I see is 8.40. Is that the one or isn't it?????? HELP!!!!!
Experience is the teacher that gives the test first and the lesson last.

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Alby
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RE: Comments on 8.403?

Post by Alby »

try here John

http://www.matrixgames.com/members/publicDL.asp?gid=297

look where is says spwaw general edition over to the right..."downloads"

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RE: Comments on 8.403?

Post by John Galt »

That's it Alby. The only way I have been able to see that is from your link. Thanks for posting it.
Experience is the teacher that gives the test first and the lesson last.

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RE: Comments on 8.403?

Post by Goblin »

ORIGINAL: John Galt

This thing is killing me. I have logged in, relogged and even made a new login, but I don't see a version 8.403. All I see is 8.40. Is that the one or isn't it?????? HELP!!!!!


John,

Goto the link Alby left. The download is not part of this forum at all, but at Matrix Member's Page. If you do not have an account there, create one (for free, just like signing up for a forum). Then you can download the 8.403 patch. I think it is still mislabeled as the 'General's Edition' patch, but it applies to the basic game, not the Megas.

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RE: Comments on 8.403?

Post by Alby »

ORIGINAL: John Galt

That's it Alby. The only way I have been able to see that is from your link. Thanks for posting it.
anytime my friend
glad I could help
[:)]

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RE: Comments on 8.403?

Post by Goblin »

Lol, I posted 10 seconds after John did! Glad he found it.


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RE: Comments on 8.403?

Post by Alby »

ORIGINAL: Goblin

Lol, I posted 10 seconds after John did! Glad he found it.


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RE: Comments on 8.403?

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[:-]
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RE: Comments on 8.403?

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RE: Comments on 8.403?

Post by John Galt »

[&o]
Experience is the teacher that gives the test first and the lesson last.

John Galt
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RE: Comments on 8.403?

Post by Korpraali V »

ORIGINAL: Goblin

[:-]
ORIGINAL: Alby


And here we go again...
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RE: Comments on 8.403?

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RE: Comments on 8.403?

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