Air war in Burma nd the AI's unlimited fighters

[JohnDillworth]

Hi,
I am playing as the Allies against the AI and I am in March 1943. It seems that the AI has an unlimited number of fighters and I just can't keep any aircraft in the air in Burma. I have depleted every squadron of P-40's and Hurricanes no matter what the experience. Each turn the AI is able to put hundreds of fighters on high level sweeps. Even through I shoot them down at a 5-1 or 10-1 ratio, after a month my replacements can not keep up. I am bombing the airfields at night but it is little use. Is it historically accurate that the the Japanese ahd complete air control over the Burma theater and that the Allies could sustain no active air presence in the area?

Has anybody else experience this? Does anyone know the Japanese losses in the theater?
thanks

[khyberbill]

I dont think the game is historically accurate when you play the AI.

[oldman45]

John, what level are you playing on? I play on historical and while 42 is a bear by 43 I have worn them down, night bombings and also their pilot losses.

[JohnDillworth]

John, what level are you playing on? I play on historical and while 42 is a bear by 43 I have worn them down, night bombings and also their pilot losses.

Historical. March 42. I have tried to where them down but they have me outnumbered by about 5-1. I have not been able to descern a drop in pilot level yet and not Tony's are starting to show up. I am night bombing and I have withdrawn all of my firghters because I have no more replacements. The only tactic that is working is to send a single AKL a day into the region. The AI will send 150 fighters escorting 12 bombers and sink the freighter. This gives me a chance to rebuild the airfileds a bit and get my aircraft out

[oldman45]

Maybe its a script item, meaning what ever script you got delt at start is different from my game, because I am not running into that many planes, and its May 30th in my game. They have me bottled up in Java for the time being but I have yet to get the big influx of B-17's in the US. Once those squadrons get to the DEI I will start pounding the surronding airfields. I have already decided that at least 4 squadrons will go to India and start working over the burma AF's. If I remember correctly, it took me almost a month of bombing before I could make any real inroads in the DEI. (game before that patch) I would expect that will be the same in this game.

[John Lansford]

It's April '42 in my game and the Oscars are as thick as ants over Chittagong and Dacca right now.  I've seen as many as 70 Oscars in one sweep mission, and then there were 20-30 more escorting the Lilys right behind them.  None of my level bomber squadrons can penetrate their CAP over Akyab, and my fighter squadrons trying to defend my bases get overwhelmed even when I've got 5 fighter squadrons at Chittagong and another two at Diamond Port.

Giving the AI some "help" to compensate for a lack of creative planning is one thing, but just handing them unlimited airframes (not to mention the other advantages such as no airbase restrictions, LCU transfers allowed, etc) means an attempt at running the Allies in a historical manner simply isn't going to work.

[oldman45]

Thats the point I was trying to get at, I don't have Oscars fighting in Burma but you do and I am at the end of May.

[Barneyrubb90]

I am up to mid September '43 playing Quiet China very hard.  I have captured Mandalay down to Rangoon but have same issue with almost no ability to sustain fighters in the area.  Getting sweeps of 100+ and have even seen 200+.

Trying to pool my aircraft in Mandalay and push the bases back on the ground.

It is very challenging.

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: Barneyrubb90

I am up to mid September '43 playing Quiet China very hard.  I have captured Mandalay down to Rangoon but have same issue with almost no ability to sustain fighters in the area.  Getting sweeps of 100+ and have even seen 200+.

Trying to pool my aircraft in Mandalay and push the bases back on the ground.

It is very challenging.

[:D]

[wdolson]

One thing to watch is your pilot training levels.  If you keep feeding in new pilots fresh out of training into your front line units, you will dilute your fighter units and they will become bait for the enemy.  With high experience fighter units and concentrated sweeps of enemy airfields, you can wear down the AI, but it takes a concentrated effort.

Bill

[JohnDillworth]

Maybe its a script item, meaning what ever script you got delt at start is different from my game, because I am not running into that many planes, and its May 30th in my game. They have me bottled up in Java for the time being but I have yet to get the big influx of B-17's in the US. Once those squadrons get to the DEI I will start pounding the surronding airfields. I have already decided that at least 4 squadrons will go to India and start working over the burma AF's. If I remember correctly, it took me almost a month of bombing before I could make any real inroads in the DEI. (game before that patch) I would expect that will be the same in this game.

Don't think it is a script. This might be stricktly a Burma thing, not DEI. Burma has lots of good fighter fields for the AI. Bombbers are not as numerous

[JohnDillworth]

One thing to watch is your pilot training levels. If you keep feeding in new pilots fresh out of training into your front line units, you will dilute your fighter units and they will become bait for the enemy. With high experience fighter units and concentrated sweeps of enemy airfields, you can wear down the AI, but it takes a concentrated effort.

Not a problem so far. The groups have an experience in th 70's and I have about 20 aces plus one guy with an experience level of 95. I have one group with 5 planes left and 193 kills and still they keep comming. Just gonna have to knowck the bases out by land.

[Central Blue]

My experience is the same as oldman45's. I am glad I am not having your experience. I have bombed Akyab airfield to dust and retaken Cox's Bazaar with nary a sign of the AI's vaunted aircraft numbers.

I do wonder what the trigger is that causes what you are experiencing. I'ld be happy to share if I had an answer. I don't think it is about training. Unlike Oldman45, I didn't put up a fight in Burma, and pulled back to the Chittagong to Ledo line early on. Where I have fighters, it is generally a squadron of Curtises and Hurricanes except for the airfields (Comilla and Chittagong) dedicated to bombing Akyab that might have three or four fighter squadrons.

I have retaken Milne Bay and Port Moresby as of early '43 with little sign of dreaded fighters and bombers from the AI. And I sort of expected a slug fest when I used my carriers to cover the landings. Nada.

I am also pummeling Lunga with no sign of serious resistance. I suppose I will see his aircraft at some point. Maybe they are all training up in the home islands.

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

It's April '42 in my game and the Oscars are as thick as ants over Chittagong and Dacca right now.  I've seen as many as 70 Oscars in one sweep mission, and then there were 20-30 more escorting the Lilys right behind them.  None of my level bomber squadrons can penetrate their CAP over Akyab, and my fighter squadrons trying to defend my bases get overwhelmed even when I've got 5 fighter squadrons at Chittagong and another two at Diamond Port.

Giving the AI some "help" to compensate for a lack of creative planning is one thing, but just handing them unlimited airframes (not to mention the other advantages such as no airbase restrictions, LCU transfers allowed, etc) means an attempt at running the Allies in a historical manner simply isn't going to work.

[oldman45]

On my last turn I took a look at the forces the AI has around the DEI from the airfields around Singapore to Makasar(SP). Assuming the intel is close there are over 400 Bombers and 300 fighters. I noticed that there are the carrier squadrons from the carriers that were lost in the are flying combat missions. I still have not seen any Oscars anywhere. Nate's and Zero's are the most common.

In the Burma theater there are approx 200 bombers and about the same number of fighters spread out from Thailand to Mandalay. They are Sally's, Betty's and Nicks with some Zero's. The average strike is 30+ bombers with 30 or so fighters. Some times a sweep of 30+ fighters comes through. I am having a bit of a struggle keeping fighters in the front lines but there are several American squadrons due so that should help.

[vlcz]

From my exp AI has a virtually unending pool of aircraft, but the pilots really sucks once you kill them in sufficient numbers, they can really hit nothing.

Just finished the burma reconquest (nov 42), my common practice is occupying a new (nearer) base only when 7+ size and full of AA, and lots of ENG, then moving almost all fighters there, retiring to lick my wounds if im on the receiving side, repeat until superiority is achieved.... Worked superb in the frontier and down to akyab... Now receiving HUGE air attacks at rangoon.

In non-burma areas the tonic seems the same (quicker than expected AI rebuilds) but can be keeped down by dayly bombing of airfields, I have 4 B-17 and 4 B26 groups bombing rabaul at 5000' (50% rest) from 7 months ago now, with rotating escort/sweep fighter groups.

[JohnDillworth]

Akyab airfield

I have taken it and that is when the madness started.

[JohnDillworth]

My experience is the same as oldman45's. I am glad I am not having your experience. I have bombed Akyab airfield to dust and retaken Cox's Bazaar with nary a sign of the AI's vaunted aircraft numbers.

I do wonder what the trigger is that causes what you are experiencing. I'ld be happy to share if I had an answer. I don't think it is about training. Unlike Oldman45, I didn't put up a fight in Burma, and pulled back to the Chittagong to Ledo line early on. Where I have fighters, it is generally a squadron of Curtises and Hurricanes except for the airfields (Comilla and Chittagong) dedicated to bombing Akyab that might have three or four fighter squadrons.


SW PAcific is now quite sice I own everything and am gearing up to invade Rubal in a month or so. AI has pretty much given up the SW Pacific as Rubal is it's only remaining base. PErhaps the AI sent all the Oscars to Burma becuase they have nowhere elese to base them.

I have retaken Milne Bay and Port Moresby as of early '43 with little sign of dreaded fighters and bombers from the AI. And I sort of expected a slug fest when I used my carriers to cover the landings. Nada.

I am also pummeling Lunga with no sign of serious resistance. I suppose I will see his aircraft at some point. Maybe they are all training up in the home islands.

[m10bob]

One of the valuable things about China is that any activity they cause against Japan, will tie up Japanese forces, land or air. If you are neglecting this important area, you can expect Japan to use its' forces west, (the Burma area), as reinforcements.


Somewhat related:

I simply cannot imagine playing a "quiet China", in a game about WW2 in this theatre, since it was the original battlefield of the entire war.

[Andy Mac]

Remember the AI has different triggers sometimes taking a specific base will trigger a response sometimes its other bases

[xj900uk]

In RL the JAAF concentrated its forces in Burma & China, there were loads of Oscars & LBA's present in '42 and the first half of '43.  Then a load of them were transferred to the SW Pacific to try and shore up the crumbling Rabaul cauldron,  most of the pilots were by now inexperienced and had no training or navigation training of flying over large bodies of water - most of them never even got there!