Scrappy RN Destroyers

[Mundy]

I had to restart my month long campaign after I accidentally saved my Guadalcanal campaign over it. Oops...

The good part was rethinking the situation over after reading some more tips. Kudos to Sardaukar's AAR -- Your turn 1 stuff is in my binder now. Yes, I keep a binder now, since I've learned not to rely on my faulty memory. I'm still adjusting to the correct use of the ship classification symbols.

The upshot was making better use of the three RN DDs at Hong Kong. After surviving several air attacks without result, ("There is nothing so exhilarating as to be shot at without effect.") I figured the best use for them was to help out in the PI. I'm on Dec 10 right now.

On the way, they caught one of the IJN East-West convoys south of HK and beat the snot out of it. Reaching northern Luzon, they then proceded to maul a lightly escorted invasion convoy, putting off one landing for some time. The torpedoes worked, too.

I guess the point is that it did take me a few tries in the campaign to get one bright spot in the early war mess. One bright spot in my resistance. (besides smacking the Wake invasion with carrier A/C). I figure repetition will pound some wisdom into my head.

One question. Will the two B-10s on Luzon ever fly a mission? I've moved them to Clark with the 17s, but after three goes at the campaign, I've never seen them fly.

M-

[greg_slith]

There seems to be a minimum number needed for a/c to fly strike missions. I've had the same issue with the B-10's and other squadrons that were down to 1 or 2 planes.

[EUBanana]

Surface combat is lethal in AE. A single cruiser can often wipe out an AP convoy completely... just look at what Boise can do with a bit of luck.

The 4.7 - 5 inch guns on DDs are a bit gutless in comparison, but 3 DDs can probably put the hurt on a convoy quite effectively.

Only issue I found is that this cuts both ways, quite often my raider cruiser groups would go in and run into a wall of Japanese battleships (who can bum around most places with impunity given the lack of Allied torpedo bombers) and get annihilated. [:(]

[John Lansford]

Those three RN DD's are really useful early on operating out of Manila.  I sent them up to Lingayan Gulf several times to break up invasion TF's, at least until the AI wised up and sent a hunter-killer TF of CA's and DD's to stop that nonsense.  My PT boats got in some licks there too.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

Those three RN DD's are really useful early on operating out of Manila.  I sent them up to Lingayan Gulf several times to break up invasion TF's, at least until the AI wised up and sent a hunter-killer TF of CA's and DD's to stop that nonsense.  My PT boats got in some licks there too.

Or, just run for it and save them for another day. British DDs come with experienced crews and upgrade to decent ASW weapons fairly early in the war. This can prove to be a valuable asset as your ASW forces are going to blow for the first half of 1942 and Japanese subs are much more deadly than they were historically.

Use the clemson's for raiding in the early months. However, those clemsons that can upgrade to APDs are not to be wasted. APDs for the Allies should be looked upon as solid gold as they are very useful and very scarce.

[EUBanana]

ORIGINAL: crsutton
Use the clemson's for raiding in the early months. However, those clemsons that can upgrade to APDs are not to be wasted. APDs for the Allies should be looked upon as solid gold as they are very useful and very scarce.

The problem with Clemsons is, those 4" guns are almost useless.

[Mundy]

I've also been running 3 US DD groups out of Manila for guerilla strikes.  When I first saw the RN replay, I thought it was one of those, until the torpedos hit.  I've also sent Houston out with these for good results.  When things get hairy, I'll pull them to a Dutch base.
 
What's the best way to sort out the optimal upgrade path for a specific class of ships?  I haven't even been thinking that far ahead, yet.
 
One more thing to sort out.  I'm just trying to get every piddling base supplied until I can spare the xAPs to consolidate.
 
I tend to run everything (supply & reinforcements) Pacific bound through Los Angeles.  Every usable LCU in the states hops on the train for LA.  Saves me from dealing out transports to ports.  I use Seattle for Alaska bound stuff.  Maybe it's not optimal, but it helps with the way I tend to organize things.
 
M-

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Mundy

I've also been running 3 US DD groups out of Manila for guerilla strikes.  When I first saw the RN replay, I thought it was one of those, until the torpedos hit.  I've also sent Houston out with these for good results.  When things get hairy, I'll pull them to a Dutch base.

What's the best way to sort out the optimal upgrade path for a specific class of ships?  I haven't even been thinking that far ahead, yet.

One more thing to sort out.  I'm just trying to get every piddling base supplied until I can spare the xAPs to consolidate.

I tend to run everything (supply & reinforcements) Pacific bound through Los Angeles.  Every usable LCU in the states hops on the train for LA.  Saves me from dealing out transports to ports.  I use Seattle for Alaska bound stuff.  Maybe it's not optimal, but it helps with the way I tend to organize things.

M-

You need to install WITP Tracker. A great utiltity for keeping an eye on these things such as upgrades.

Nothing wrong with using one major port in the US as a central hub, except that if your opponent figures it out he can concentrate subs there. Plus later in the game, you will be moving so much supply and troops that even one large port might not be able to handle the load.

[Mundy]

I've got Tracker.  I'm just not in the habit yet of looking at it every turn.
 
Yeah, I figure the pipeline will only be so wide.  If it gets too bad, I'll delegate to SF.  Once I settle into the campaign, I'll be able to feel out when the time is right.  I haven't PBEMed AE yet, but last time around, the AI had a few subs prowling the waters within a month.  Work for the YPs, I guess.
 
I did start out the initial supply surge from whatever bases the transports were at.  They'll just return to LA.  I was just wondering out loud if I'm in left field or not.  [:)]
 
In my UV PBEM that I've had going for a few months (my first PBEM campaign), I've found that I'm more likely to scrutinize every event in every turn.  I had never looked at daily air losses before.  Against the AI, I tend to just crank out turns.  I guess waiting for the daily turn makes one savor it more.

M-
 

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Mundy

Yeah, I figure the pipeline will only be so wide.  If it gets too bad, I'll delegate to SF.  Once I settle into the campaign, I'll be able to feel out when the time is right.  I haven't PBEMed AE yet, but last time around, the AI had a few subs prowling the waters within a month.  Work for the YPs, I guess.

I use SF at least to 1/44. I feed PH steadily, and by then I have 5+ million there, ready to funnel to the PI or wherever. Never stop the CS flow to PH.

I think SF is superior to LA only because the satellite yard-cities around the Bay are the source of many/most of the Liberty/Victory ships you get in the game. Later on it's often going to be 4-6 per week. It's easier to group them into TFs and shift them one hex, safe from subs, to SF to do their jobs. Sending them to LA would cost fuel, time, and risk. SF is also the hub for auto-convoys if you use that feature.

But to each his own. LA is farther south, and that can have advantages for some destinations.

[bradfordkay]

ORIGINAL: ecwgcx

There seems to be a minimum number needed for a/c to fly strike missions. I've had the same issue with the B-10's and other squadrons that were down to 1 or 2 planes.

IIRC, the minimum number of aircraft to launch an attack is three so these B10s will not be able to pass that check. However, they are fairly decent at naval search...

[Mundy]

Regarding the three DDs, here's what they ran into off of Vigan. Much noise and fanfare, but no hits on either side.

Is there any way for them to re-arm their torpedoes at Manila, or must it be a British base? It would make sense, but the actual criteria would be helpful.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Laoag at 80,72, Range 8,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CVL Zuiho
CVE Hosho
CS Chiyoda
DD Usugumo
DD Nagatsuki
DD Harukaze

Allied Ships
DD Scout
DD Thanet
DD Thracian



Reduced sighting due to 28% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Overcast Conditions and 28% moonlight: 8,000 yards
Range closes to 11,000 yards...
Range closes to 10,000 yards...
Range closes to 9,000 yards...
Range closes to 8,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 8,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 8,000 yards
DD Thanet engages CVE Hosho at 8,000 yards
DD Scout engages CVL Zuiho at 8,000 yards
DD Usugumo engages DD Scout at 8,000 yards
Range increases to 9,000 yards
DD Thracian engages CVL Zuiho at 9,000 yards
DD Usugumo engages DD Thanet at 9,000 yards
DD Usugumo engages DD Thracian at 9,000 yards
DD Thracian engages DD Usugumo at 9,000 yards
DD Thracian engages CVE Hosho at 9,000 yards
DD Thracian engages CS Chiyoda at 9,000 yards
DD Usugumo engages DD Thanet at 9,000 yards
DD Scout engages DD Usugumo at 9,000 yards
Range increases to 12,000 yards
DD Thracian engages DD Usugumo at 12,000 yards
Japanese Task Force Manages to Escape
Task forces break off...

M-

[Alpha77]

How can they survive the Jap air in this area ?

[Mundy]

The CVs were more intent on hitting my minelayer group at Bataan.  These three ships have all dodged several attacks over the game.  Thracian's single hit was a single return shot from a convoy.  Nettie activity over the PI has picked up quite a bit over the last couple days, though.  My hit and runs have done well, but I'm going to have to pack 'em up soon.

I got over ambitious with the USN carriers.  Enterprise and Lexington combined near Wake.  KB hit targets around Pearl for about 3 days and then proceded to pound on Midway a week later.  I was playing a hunch that their sorties might be getting used up and charged the CVs in.  Shokaku ate some bombs and Hiryu took a torp and bombs, but my carriers now have mid-range damage.  Lex's flood damage is a tad high, but they should make it back.  I guess that's what I get for not following the universal US CV rule at start. (keep away)  A sub near Pearl had a shot at the Akagi, but the faulty torpedos lost that opportunity.

I have to look at this game as several small wars to keep my sanity.  I haven't really got my supply train to India setup yet

M-

[Alpha77]

Hi,
 
"The CVs were more intent on hitting my minelayer group at Bataan"

Yup they are sometimes targeted at those small craft, also British HDML are a lickely target Interestingly in my 1st game (both allied) the Jap AI doesn´t hit the small craft they attack 10 times or so to destroy them. Now started a new game and the Jap does now sink the small TBs after 1-2 attacks already [X(][&:]
 
In this game I gather most ships and run for it. Cause it seems these escort craft can be of use in 42+43. In first game I tried to hit and run also, guess some transports damaged or so but nothing serious so thought it is not worth it. I only use subs and small crafts. I also tried to load fuel on AKs and then flee, sometimes worked sometimes not (AI sank 3 AKS at Rangoon loading fuel right now). Guess the fuel is not needed for defense anyway and will be captured by Japs anyway. I got the message of 1 torp hit on a JAP BB, but maybe only FOW (hope not [:'(]). In first game a Jap CVL also got 6 torp shots (ALL of them faulty [:@]).
 
 
"I got over ambitious with the USN carriers"

I was thinking the same like you.After KB leaves Pearl use the carriers to thwart Wake landings. I gaterhed them at a point at see near Johnston. So waited 1 turn - but KB was still there. They attack Midway !! Though ok. Midway is some hexes away from Wake.... But decided not to take the risk for small gain, Wake is not very worthy and will be taken anyway. I am now in 17. Dec. - Japs landed at Rabaul already. They oblitered a force of APs, AKs and escorts which should evacuate the Rabaul garrison (as they will die anyway). Huge blow at the beginning I must admit. These were 2 BBs + escorts there [X(] Guess I also used the wrong order "remain on station" (will they flee then??), cause I wanted them to stay at Rabaul and load troops next turn. Normally a fleet without "remain on station" just leaves for home without loading anything.But I wonder if they also don´t flee enemy overwhelming forces with "remain on station"[&:]
 
" I was playing a hunch that their sorties might be getting used up and charged the CVs in."

I think (guess) the AI get´s bonus sorties, cause in my 1st game 1-2 CVs and 1-2 CVLs of the Japs patrolled quasi forever between Fiji and Noumea, all the way bombing and flying sorties. Or the Jap get´s general bonus for this in 41 + 42 or so [&:]

[Alpha77]

Ah btw. the JAPS laid mines at Bataan - 3 of my subs hit, so get you ships out of Manila fast if the AI does the same maybe in your game  [;)][:D] In Manila only the 3 damaged subs are left now. Phew. At least in fleeing I have some success.

Well one AP fleeing from east coast OZ was hit [:(] I learned better to evacuate as much as possible the east coast of Australia as AI tends to raid the area with CVs and Bettys starting in April or so.

[Mundy]

Yeah, I caught on to the Bataan mining early on --hence, the AMs parked there.  The first couple times around my subs were hitting them.
 
Rangoon's only suffered one raid so far.  Too many fish for the AI to fry, I guess.
 
Andy Mac's scripting has forced me to take nothing for granted.  In vanilla WITP, eight months into the game, Manila and Soerabaja were still holding out against repeated attacks (although I learned the folly of defending Rangoon).  I was actually moving stuff into Timor for an advanced base from Darwin.  This time around, I might as well hold back the ocean tide.
 
As far as the carrier incident, I should have known better.  I am extremely lucky to only have the damage that I do have after a couple of 300 plane strikes.  Hopefully good 'ol USN damage control will keep the Lex in good stead.  I actually wrote numbers down to keep track.  I wonder if Tracker keeps damage history?
 
M-

[Smeulders]

It does

[Mundy]

Good to know.  I'm a bit clumsy with it yet.
 
M-

[Sardaukar]

DDs are very hard to hit with air attacks, especially if they are in TF without any bigger ships, that is. Allied skip bombing and dive bombers of both side do get hits, though.
 
Against AI, I have been able to run small 1-3 DD TFs around Java quite a while before IJN CV pilots finally get them..usually CVs are busy hammering easier targets.