Help me make a Halftrack AFV unit

[the_iron_duke]

I want to make a Halftrack AFV (Armoured Fighting Vehicle) (sub-)unit. This vehicle is to serve in the reconnaissance formations of the Armoured Corps and Armoured Divisions.

The Armoured Car unit is not suitable, since it has wheeled (rather than tracked) movement, and so cannot keep pace with tracked tank and halftrack mechanized infantry/artillery formations.

So I want it to have fairly similar capabilities as an Armoured Car (perhaps slightly less powerful, since it is not as well armed or armoured), but with the movement of a tracked vehicle.

An Armoured Car costs 1000 production points and a Halftrack costs 1250. I think the Halftrack AFV could cost the same price as a normal Halftrack. The main deficiency that the AFV version would have against the regular Halftrack would be that its carriage capacity is reduced from 20 to an AC's 5.

One issue to consider would be that the AC is considered as Armour, while the Halftrack is considered as a Soft target. Some games have mechanized units as hard targets, others as soft. I'd like the Halftrack AFV be able to take part in light combat, alongside tanks, but I'd be worried that making it a Soft target would make it too vulnerable. Ideally, I wouldn't want it regularly destroyed in its first combat, so survivability would be more important than ability to inflict damage on an enemy.

Graphics

I modded a graphic for the unit. If anyone feels they could improve upon it, they are welcome to try.



There are mini-images that appear to be for a Halftrack AFV unit existing already within the game's graphics files, which I've reproduced below (middle two images). It's possible that somebody's already created a Halftrack AFV unit, in a scenario or something, so if this is the case, please direct me to it.



Stats

Here's a comparison of the stats between an Armoured Car and Halftrack. I've highlighted which stats I think would be more appropriate for a Halftrack AFV unit and placed a question mark besides those I'm unsure about.







Any thoughts?

[the_iron_duke]

It is also worth comparing with the Jeep unit, with which the Halftrack AFV will share the same primary role - reconnaissance.







Jeep has 25 recon points, while AC has 10. I think the Halftrack AFV could have recon of 20 - it might not be as manoeuvreable as a jeep, but its open-roofed carriage area offers a raised viewing platform where several spotters can operate at once.

ZOC Points: AC has 4, Jeep has 2, so maybe Halftrack AFV could have 3.

Initiative:

Initiative Attack (Jeep/AC): 60/40, so maybe Halftrack AFV gets 50
" " " " " Defense (Jeep/AC): 30/20, so maybe Halftrack AFV gets 25
Attacks (Jeep/AC): 1/10, so ?

Combat and HP:

Big differences between Jeep and AC. Halftrack AFV should be somewhere in between, but closer to AC.

[the_iron_duke]

Here are my further thoughts...

SFTypeGroup: Soft Mobile (as Jeep and Halftrack)
MoveType: Tracked
Supply Carry/Consume: 12? (Jeep has 8, and Armoured Car 16. I'm not quite sure how this works - is 8 better than 16 or vice versa?)
Land Tr. Cap: 0 (like Jeep and AC and unlike Halftrack)
Weight: 20 (as Halftrack)
Carry Cap.: 5 (same as AC; 2/5/20 = Jeep/AC/Halftrack)
Recon Points: 20 (25/10/10 = Jeep/AC/Halftrack)
ZOC Points: 3 (2/4/0 = Jeep/AC/Halftrack)
Anti-Struc Pts: 1 (Jeep has 0, AC has 2)

Initiative Attack: 50 (60/40 = Jeep/AC)
Initiative Def: 25 (30/20 = Jeep/AC)
Attacks: ??? (1/10 = Jeep/AC, so maybe 5???)
Max Attacked: ??? (No idea what this does; 10/20/15 = Jeep/AC/Halftrack)
Stack Points: 4 or 5 (3/5/0 = Jeep/AC/Halftrack)
Rear Area: False (like Jeep and AC and unlike Halftrack)
Entrench Pow: ??? (0/0/20 = Jeep/AC/Halftrack, so probably 0)
Power Points: 8? (5/10/1 = Jeep/AC/Halftrack, so perhaps 8?)
Kill becomes rtr: ??? (no idea what this does; 0/0/30 = Jeep/AC/Halftrack)


Combat Attack/Def (I've reduced them to around 2/3 strength of AC):
Infantry - 800/400
Soft Mobile - 200/150
Artillery - 200/150
Armour - 300/200

HP (as Halftrack):
Infantry - 1600/1600
Soft Mobile - 800/800
Artillery - 800/800
Armour - 1600/1600
Surface Vessels - 800/800
Submarines - 800/800
Fighters - 800/800
Non-Fighters - 800/800

Landscape Stats: Basically, same as Halftrack, but with the landscape combat modifiers of Jeep/AC

[the_iron_duke]

I made some small edits to the image and modified the overlay, so this is how the Halftrack AFV might look with a green colour filter.

[Ormand]

It looks like you want to model the British Universal Carrier

[the_iron_duke]

It's more representing of vehicles such as the M3 Halftrack or Sd.Kfz. 251, which were used for many military roles. The Halftrack in the game is purely for transport (as a troop carrier or gun tow-er).

It would be possible to use the game's Halftrack, filled with troops, for recon. However, in my system for playing the game, a Halftrack sub-unit would represent a single company-sized unit, while the game's Halftrack is designed with the capacity to carry twenty times that amount - over a regiment.

So it's not really practical and therefore a dedicated tracked recon unit is needed.

Armoured recon battalions in historical TOEs are stacked full of heavy weapons (MGs, mortars, guns, even light tanks) so they should have some decent firepower. Its weaponry, crew to use weaponry, ammo and increased storage supplies for recon duty mean the unit would not have so much space to serve as a troop carrier.

[the_iron_duke]

The process for creating a new unit looks to be quite complicated. It looks like the sort of thing that might take a few minutes for someone who knew what they were doing, but several days for me, probably with the added hassle of me asking on the boards for guidance a dozen times. So I will be offering it open as a commission for the reward of a ten dollar Matrix Games gift voucher if someone else is prepared to do it.

[Ormand]

Well, you have a bit of a point on the halftrack as really a troop carrier in ATG. And, I was wodnering what you were trying to accomplish with the unit in terms of the game. But, the halftrack unit has recon capability as well as attack and the ability to "deflect" hits on the infantry it is carrying. The scale used for the armored vehicles is one thing that I changed in my mod because they don't "feel" like they are the same scale as the infantry. If we are talking division sized units, the infantry are not far from a company-sized unit. This is why I made the armored units smaller, with a stack point of 1. This is also what Vic and designers did in the DC series. The "catch" for the halftrack unit being one-for-one with infantry is that you have to be careful with the stacking point limit. A fully mechanized division with infantry mobilized only with halftracks is hard to make within the stackpoint limit. But, in the end, many mechanized units weren't fully equipped with halftracks, but had a mixture of halftracks and trucks. As for what you want to do, you could copy the halftrack, give it a different name, give it a carry capacity for only one rifle unit, and modify the combat factors and protection stats to reflect a smaller unit.

By the way, on roads, it should be harder for the tracked vehicles to keep up with the wheeled vehicles. Many tracked vehicles have a hard time going over 25 mph and they are prone to breaking down. Whereas a truck could go 40 mph on a road without a lot of trouble. Off-road, the tracked vehicle is better. But, and there always is one, the terrain in the game isn't meant to be completely roadless. It is just that they are not well developed, and aren't well organized from hex to hex. The roads in the game are main transportation networks.

[the_iron_duke]

The Halftrack, as a transporter, in the game is like this (with no firepower).





The Halftrack AFV is more like this.

[the_iron_duke]

In my system, the Authentic Military Organisation System™, the only divisional formations used are regiments (tank, infantry, artillery, mechanized infantry, motorised infantry and so on). The divisional support battalions (such as recon, anti-tank and, for armoured divisions, anti-aircraft) are not used as separate units. Instead, they are considered to be split between, and attached to, the constituent regiments of the division. So, for example, each infantry regiment gets one cavalry sub-unit to represent a company from the divisional recon battalion and an extra bazooka to represent a company from the divisional anti-tank battalion.

Battalions do exist at Corps level as independent army pool troops that are attached to corps as needed (Corps Troops). Such specialist battalions include machine gun battalions, mortar battalions, recon battalions, anti-tank battalions, tank destroyer (assault gun) battalions, heavy artillery battalions, heavy tank battalions and heavy tank destroyer (tank destroyer) battalions.

So the Halftrack AFV, using my system, would be needed in two places: firstly, one sub-unit attached to each Tank Regiment to represent a company from the Armoured Division's recon battalion (and using a wheeled Jeep or AC would slow the regiment down);secondly, as a Corps-level recon battalion formation made up of (three) Halftrack AFVs (and I also add one infantry company per vehicle to the independent recon battalion).

[Ormand]

I see your point, and what you are going for. At first, I thought you were looking for a smallish recon-type APC. I agree that the halftrack in ATG has no attack capability, although as a transport system, it does have a lot of hit points, and has a 50% chance of absorbing a hit for the units it carries (or rather units of that type in the unit it is embedded with). This is not a minor thing as it protects the troops. In this regard, it is much better than a truck for transport. However, it does not add to the attack. I felt this wasn't really the spirit of how halftracks were used as an APC. Like I said, in my FourSeasons system I changed all the vehicles to make them more on par with the infantry units. I made the haltrack have combat points that are fairly similar to the machinegun. Also, they can only carry one infantry. If you do this, I think it is better to do the same to all vehicles. Basically, split them up by five. Also, I don't allow tanks to carry infantry. I don't think this was really meant as a transport mode in an effective formation. Yes, you see pictures of infantry riding along, but they weren't actually part of the TOE. They were more hitchiking.

Here is the combat table for my halftrack I: (edit: also they have a 50% chance to prevent a hit on infantry from infantry, soft mobile, artillery, and armor). (2nd edit: also, I would agree that it probably shouldn't be a rear area unit).

[Ormand]

Also, if anyone wants it, here is a "cartooned" version of the universal carrier from a picture on the web:

[Ormand]

The file in a zip

[the_iron_duke]

Your changes make sense. Like the halftracks carrying one infantry and tanks not being able to carry any. For the recon battalion, I consider each sub-unit vehicle (e.g. Jeep/AC) to be one company carrying one infantry company, and so would be using only a small portion of their transport capacity in the game (one fifth of their carry capacity with AC or one half with Jeep). I also don't use tanks to transport troops.

I have a lot of "house rules" in the way I play to make things more realistic in military organisation terms.

To keep changes minimal, for now at least, for this modded unit, my aim is to create something that works within the framework of how the game is currently structured. So a transport capacity of 5 for the Halftrack AFV, like the AC, even though in actual practice I would be using at as having transport capacity of 1 due to "house rules".

My thoughts are that the Halftrack and the Halftrack AFV unit become available together through the same Research tree.

Here's the on-paper TOE of an Armoured Recon Battalion from a 1944 Panzer Division:



My Authentic Military Organisation System "house rules" aim to reach a compromise between real military organization/TOEs and the framework of the game's rules and settings. For these reasons, which I will explain another time, I use three vehicle sub-units in the recon battalions, so three companies.

As mentioned previously, the companies of my divisional recon battalions are considered to be attached to the divisional regiments and so are not represented as independent counters. So the recon battalions represented as individual in-game counters are the Corp Troops Recon Battalions. I use one Recon Battalion for each Corps and usually have a couple of independent Recon Battalions, under Supreme HQ command, to patrol open areas on the front where I haven't formed any Corps yet.

The standard Recon Battalion I have been using is:

1 x Armoured Car
2 x Jeep
2 x Rifle
1 x Bazooka

However, this Recon Battalion is not fit for the purposes of the armoured formations due to lack of tracked movement. As mentioned, the recon battalion of the Armoured Division will be represented by a Halftrack AFV sub-unit added to each of the Tank Regiments and possibly the Mechanized Infantry Regiment. The Corp-level independent Recon Battalion will be three Halftrack AFVs and probably, again, 2 x Rifle and 1 x Bazooka. Unlike all other vehicular formations in the game, I give the Recon Battalion attached infantry (3 x vehicles, 3 x infantry).

I like the idea of 20 Recon Points for the Halftrack AFV as it, in my sytem, give both types of Recon Battalion the same Recon points (10 for AC, 25 x 2 for two Jeeps = 60; 20 x 3 Halftrack AFV = 60).

[the_iron_duke]

Jeep combat stats:



Armoured Car combat stats:



Halftrack combat stats:

[the_iron_duke]

For the Halftrack AFV, the Fav stats of the Jeep look good.

I'm not really sure what to make of the combat stats. I see from the stats in the editor that the combat stats shown in-game must be the Pow and PowDef stats multiplied by the number of Attacks. Since Jeep has 1 Attack and Armoured Car has 10, I'm not quite understanding what number of Attacks represents and what it means for the Halftrack AFV's combat stats.

[the_iron_duke]

All tanks and AC have 10 Attacks, Machine Gun has 3 (increasing through research). So how to do this? Reduce number of Attacks or reduce Pow stats? I guess, if in doubt, reduce them both a little!

I prefer the proportions of the Armoured Car's combat stats, i.e. most effective against infantry. I was wondering about the Attack/Defense balance and thought I'd leave it similar to an AC. So better at attack than defense, which makes sense since a machine-gun on stationary Halftrack in a defensive position is not that much different than a machine-gun on the ground behind cover, while in attack, the mobile firing platform of a moving Halftrack would be much more effective than a guy running round with a machine-gun that needs to be fired from a prone position.

[the_iron_duke]

One of many possible configurations would be to use 8 Attacks for the Halftrack AFV and the following combat stats:

Attacks = 8
(Pow/PowDef , Total Power/Total PowerDef)
Infantry: 100/50 = 800/400
Soft Mobile: 25/20 = 200/160
Artillery: 25/20 = 200/160
Armour: 25/20 = 200/160

I reduced the vs armour rating slightly.

[the_iron_duke]

Basically, I'm trying to make a decision on whether the combat stats of the Halftrack AFV should be 2/3 that of an Armoured Car unit or 1/2. It's already got the disadvantages, when compared with the AC, of being Soft Mobile rather than Armour and half the HP against Soft Mobile and artillery.

Another consideration, is that the AC gets increased HP in attack, while the Jeep does not. So that's something else to decide.

[the_iron_duke]

Okay, my current thinking is to keep the two-thirds firepower, but not give the Halftrack AFV the extra HP in attack. Its primary purpose is reconnaissance rather than fighting. So better for it to have the firepower to defend itself rather than an encouragement to attack given by the HP attack boost.