Let us reform the Red Army of Workers and Peasants! (Advice needed)

[Wiedrock]

While working on a Calcultor for TBs I have created some overviews which may be helpful to some.

TB stuff
Changes in TB Requirements by Events.
It lists the 5 Events for the Soviets which change the Requirements (as of Game Version 1.04.10_BETA 01.Oct 2025).

Soviet TB Requirement changes.png (30.87 KiB) Viewed 262 times

Additionally a calculation on which Artillery/Mortar/Rocket TOEs have which efficiency regarding manpower and trucks inside TBs.
Both lists/sheets can be accessed in their current version of the TB Calculator (they are separate sheets in the document).

TBCV Artillery Soviets.png (83.71 KiB) Viewed 262 times

---

MAP stuff
Furthermore I have made a list for Soviet Artillery TOEs (Note that some lines are hidden (Mortars/Rockets/AA TOEs and so on), which uses the four most manpower efficient TOEs for the Gun types and applies this ratio (manpower per gun) to all the other/mixed TOEs.
You can access this separate list here (reading only access, it's still WIP - just the "pure" Artillery SUs are "finished", if you have more info let me know/or request writing access!).

Soviet Artillery TOE ratios.png (194.66 KiB) Viewed 262 times

Since the game automatically shoving around Heavy Artillery from one type to another for no reason I assume you can always build the cheapest TOE, since a BM will in the end not be a BM anyways.

• The good ones are the dark green coloured ones, those are no-brainer in buiding/keeping (if the specific type is available).
• The red marked ones are just bad in their ratios and have way better alternatives.
• The orange ones are "not so bad". I classify the 76mm as such since their combat performance isn't the greatest. The Light Artillery Regiment could actually be somewhat decent (for quiet parts of the frontline), if there wasn't the issue with it having way too many men required.
  Additionally I think the final Corps Artillery TOE is kinda decent (see grey notes below).
  The final Howitzer is also not the worst, it has similar bad Manpower ratios as Artillery Divisions (but I don't want to compare SUs with CUs in this) (see grey notes below).
  
• The grey ones are "necessary" for a later "not so bad" versions, meaning, that if you keep those SUs initially/in 1941 and get some good winratios (GUARDS) these may be worth keeping then.

The two available Battalions are both very good and could potentially be used to "increase base on which the max GUARD conversions are based on" (altough it is not 100% clear to me how the base for GUARDS is being calculated between different types of unit sizes or if it uses the gun numbers...).

[Q-Ball]

Wiedrock, that Artilley table is very helpful! It confirms what I've been doing anyway just by "eyeballing" the TOEs.

Mortar Bn are also great; 36 tubers, very little support elements, and Mortars do alot of damage. I think the Red Army should build as many as 120mm Mortar production can support, and issue one to every Army. Their only downside is they can't become Guards.

Thanks for the input on Artillery Divisions; while on paper they sound great, it's a huge commitment of equipment and manpower for the return, and maybe not worth it

Heavy Rocket Brigades seem like the best choice for on-Map artillery units, no?

[Lurberri]

Wow, fantastic table, it gives the Soviet player a very accurate idea of ​​the best options available for building artillery... Too bad I usually play for the Axis side.

[Wiedrock]

Wiedrock, that Artilley table is very helpful! It confirms what I've been doing anyway just by "eyeballing" the TOEs.

You gave me the idea to actually quantify it for once.

Mortar Bn are also great; 36 tubers, very little support elements, and Mortars do alot of damage. I think the Red Army should build as many as 120mm Mortar production can support, and issue one to every Army. Their only downside is they can't become Guards.

Heavy Mortars 120mm+107mm are actually one of the most produced Artillery, and their combat performance is afaik about equal to the "real"/good Artilleries (excluding 76.2mm).
If you ignore the Light Artillery (76.2mm), the Heavy Mortars even have a higher total production (48195 vs 40744) than Artillery, Heavy Artillery, Medium Field Gun, Rocket, Unarmored Rocket combined.

WITE2_SOV_Artillery_types_autoNEW.png (30.16 KiB) Viewed 197 times

WITE2_SOV_Artillery_types_autoSUM.png (22.01 KiB) Viewed 197 times

So indeed you can spam those Battalions infinitely (their manpower is off and should be 350Men).
But I would argue that Mortar formations are actually a place where you can pretty much adjust what you build regarding Manpower(Battalions), Trucks(NON MOT), GUARD'ability and Firepower(Brigade with 144 vs 36 vs 16+16 vs 20/24 Mortars) needs.
I think the Mortar Brigade with the 144x120mm is the strongest Artillery SU by far! No idea what happened to the second Mortar Brigade TOE, something is off there I suppose.

Mortar TOE comparison.png (99.89 KiB) Viewed 190 times

I don't think the GUARD'ability should be neglected tho, the +10MOREX is just too much with its multiplicative nature on things (better hitting, less getting hit, less retreat losses, more CV + whatnot), just CV is +~44% for Guards, if you add all the other effects on Combat its much more what it gives you.
Someone should figure out how the percentages of Guards/the base they apply to is caculated (I think TBs are not being looked at in this!), so one could make a proper ratio on what to build in which numbers.

[Wiedrock]

Heavy Rocket Brigades seem like the best choice for on-Map artillery units, no?

You say.

Rockets have usually better ratios in Trucks and Manpower per gun (as known) than Artillery.

I somewhat "ignore" 1941 TOEs, since they are short termed and production is just starting, so I use the later TOEs as base for the manpower calculation.
The lack of production of DShK may be messing with those Regiment's TOE-%.

Not quite sure how one would set up the Truck efficiency formula on those 2 Rocket types (or in general). Seems like each unarmored rocket needs ~4 (the ones mounted on Trucks) while each stationary Rocket needs ~2.5.

[Q-Ball]

Another factor on Rocket vs. Artillery On-Map units is equipment availability; I think that's the deciding factor

I am finding in late 1942 that the Red Army is already hand-to-mouth on Heavy Artillery (152 ML-20), and in Artillery (122mm), so finding a bunch more for Artillery Division is impractical, and will be robbing from Rifle and Army Artillery units.

Rockets, on the other hand, are plentiful; basically unlimited with Soviet production. Not many other units call for them, so there's plenty in the pool

[Wiedrock]

Also worth mentioning, as M60 said before, is that all MOT Soviets get +5NM (from 09/1942 or so) and those "on map rockets" are MOTORIZED, so since they will end up with +10Guards+5MOT NM, so 15 more NM than non Guards Artillery Divisions and have MOT MP (max 50MP) as well.
In some AI games in the past I have seen some weird Rocket Brigades with NON-MOT (3) which shouldn't be possible, no idea how they arrived/happened or if the AI simply did some magic.

I am finding in late 1942 that the Red Army is already hand-to-mouth on Heavy Artillery (152 ML-20), and in Artillery (122mm), so finding a bunch more for Artillery Division is impractical, and will be robbing from Rifle and Army Artillery units.

How many Artillery(all) Regiments do you have?

[Q-Ball]

I am finding in late 1942 that the Red Army is already hand-to-mouth on Heavy Artillery (152 ML-20), and in Artillery (122mm), so finding a bunch more for Artillery Division is impractical, and will be robbing from Rifle and Army Artillery units.

How many Artillery(all) Regiments do you have?

Great question, Wiedrock....sorry for delay, I was waiting for turn back to to look it up.

I have a total of 175 Artillery units, including 81 Army Artillery (Heavy Artillery), 22 Cannon (122mm Field Gun), and 42 Howitzer (122, etc) units. I have built all 20 Howitzer Brigades available, so maxed-out on the 72-tube units.

I am playing with TB Control OFF, so there are nearly 50 Artillery units stuck in TB boxes; otherwise I would probably be recalling many of those and replacing with LIght Artillery or Mortar units, something I have plenty of

MInus the TB units, I have about 130 Artillery SUs available; with over 60 active Army HQ on the Map, that doesn't seem like a massive number.

I would say MOST Artillery slots are filled, though new builds are taking awhile to fill-up. It's only in Infantry Guns that I have open slots all over the map; production is just too light on those!

Although production is only 6 per week, I am pretty good on 122mm Field Guns, with 75 tubes in the active pool; I could probably build 1 or 2 more, but don't want to go crazy. (THere are 279 107mm guns, so maybe I should)

[56ajax]

I am finding in late 1942 that the Red Army is already hand-to-mouth on Heavy Artillery (152 ML-20), and in Artillery (122mm), so finding a bunch more for Artillery Division is impractical, and will be robbing from Rifle and Army Artillery units.

How many Artillery(all) Regiments do you have?

Great question, Wiedrock....sorry for delay, I was waiting for turn back to to look it up.

I have a total of 175 Artillery units, including 81 Army Artillery (Heavy Artillery), 22 Cannon (122mm Field Gun), and 42 Howitzer (122, etc) units. I have built all 20 Howitzer Brigades available, so maxed-out on the 72-tube units.

I am playing with TB Control OFF, so there are nearly 50 Artillery units stuck in TB boxes; otherwise I would probably be recalling many of those and replacing with LIght Artillery or Mortar units, something I have plenty of

MInus the TB units, I have about 130 Artillery SUs available; with over 60 active Army HQ on the Map, that doesn't seem like a massive number.

I would say MOST Artillery slots are filled, though new builds are taking awhile to fill-up. It's only in Infantry Guns that I have open slots all over the map; production is just too light on those!

Although production is only 6 per week, I am pretty good on 122mm Field Guns, with 75 tubes in the active pool; I could probably build 1 or 2 more, but don't want to go crazy. (THere are 279 107mm guns, so maybe I should)

How many are actually needed? Many of mine havent been committed to battle as parts of then Frontm are very stable. Perhaps i could use these resources elsewhere.