Let us reform the Red Army of Workers and Peasants! (Advice needed)

[Wiedrock]

While working on a Calcultor for TBs I have created some overviews which may be helpful to some.

TB stuff
Changes in TB Requirements by Events.
It lists the 5 Events for the Soviets which change the Requirements (as of Game Version 1.04.10_BETA 01.Oct 2025).

Soviet TB Requirement changes.png (30.87 KiB) Viewed 595 times

Additionally a calculation on which Artillery/Mortar/Rocket TOEs have which efficiency regarding manpower and trucks inside TBs.
Both lists/sheets can be accessed in their current version of the TB Calculator (they are separate sheets in the document).

TBCV Artillery Soviets.png (83.71 KiB) Viewed 595 times

---

MAP stuff
Furthermore I have made a list for Soviet Artillery TOEs (Note that some lines are hidden (Mortars/Rockets/AA TOEs and so on), which uses the four most manpower efficient TOEs for the Gun types and applies this ratio (manpower per gun) to all the other/mixed TOEs.
You can access this separate list here (reading only access, it's still WIP - just the "pure" Artillery SUs are "finished", if you have more info let me know/or request writing access!).

Soviet Artillery TOE ratios.png (194.66 KiB) Viewed 595 times

Since the game automatically shoving around Heavy Artillery from one type to another for no reason I assume you can always build the cheapest TOE, since a BM will in the end not be a BM anyways.

• The good ones are the dark green coloured ones, those are no-brainer in buiding/keeping (if the specific type is available).
• The red marked ones are just bad in their ratios and have way better alternatives.
• The orange ones are "not so bad". I classify the 76mm as such since their combat performance isn't the greatest. The Light Artillery Regiment could actually be somewhat decent (for quiet parts of the frontline), if there wasn't the issue with it having way too many men required.
  Additionally I think the final Corps Artillery TOE is kinda decent (see grey notes below).
  The final Howitzer is also not the worst, it has similar bad Manpower ratios as Artillery Divisions (but I don't want to compare SUs with CUs in this) (see grey notes below).
  
• The grey ones are "necessary" for a later "not so bad" versions, meaning, that if you keep those SUs initially/in 1941 and get some good winratios (GUARDS) these may be worth keeping then.

The two available Battalions are both very good and could potentially be used to "increase base on which the max GUARD conversions are based on" (altough it is not 100% clear to me how the base for GUARDS is being calculated between different types of unit sizes or if it uses the gun numbers...).

[Q-Ball]

Wiedrock, that Artilley table is very helpful! It confirms what I've been doing anyway just by "eyeballing" the TOEs.

Mortar Bn are also great; 36 tubers, very little support elements, and Mortars do alot of damage. I think the Red Army should build as many as 120mm Mortar production can support, and issue one to every Army. Their only downside is they can't become Guards.

Thanks for the input on Artillery Divisions; while on paper they sound great, it's a huge commitment of equipment and manpower for the return, and maybe not worth it

Heavy Rocket Brigades seem like the best choice for on-Map artillery units, no?

[Lurberri]

Wow, fantastic table, it gives the Soviet player a very accurate idea of ​​the best options available for building artillery... Too bad I usually play for the Axis side.

[Wiedrock]

Wiedrock, that Artilley table is very helpful! It confirms what I've been doing anyway just by "eyeballing" the TOEs.

You gave me the idea to actually quantify it for once.

Mortar Bn are also great; 36 tubers, very little support elements, and Mortars do alot of damage. I think the Red Army should build as many as 120mm Mortar production can support, and issue one to every Army. Their only downside is they can't become Guards.

Heavy Mortars 120mm+107mm are actually one of the most produced Artillery, and their combat performance is afaik about equal to the "real"/good Artilleries (excluding 76.2mm).
If you ignore the Light Artillery (76.2mm), the Heavy Mortars even have a higher total production (48195 vs 40744) than Artillery, Heavy Artillery, Medium Field Gun, Rocket, Unarmored Rocket combined.

WITE2_SOV_Artillery_types_autoNEW.png (30.16 KiB) Viewed 530 times

WITE2_SOV_Artillery_types_autoSUM.png (22.01 KiB) Viewed 530 times

So indeed you can spam those Battalions infinitely (their manpower is off and should be 350Men).
But I would argue that Mortar formations are actually a place where you can pretty much adjust what you build regarding Manpower(Battalions), Trucks(NON MOT), GUARD'ability and Firepower(Brigade with 144 vs 36 vs 16+16 vs 20/24 Mortars) needs.
I think the Mortar Brigade with the 144x120mm is the strongest Artillery SU by far! No idea what happened to the second Mortar Brigade TOE, something is off there I suppose.

Mortar TOE comparison.png (99.89 KiB) Viewed 523 times

I don't think the GUARD'ability should be neglected tho, the +10MOREX is just too much with its multiplicative nature on things (better hitting, less getting hit, less retreat losses, more CV + whatnot), just CV is +~44% for Guards, if you add all the other effects on Combat its much more what it gives you.
Someone should figure out how the percentages of Guards/the base they apply to is caculated (I think TBs are not being looked at in this!), so one could make a proper ratio on what to build in which numbers.

[Wiedrock]

Heavy Rocket Brigades seem like the best choice for on-Map artillery units, no?

You say.

Rockets have usually better ratios in Trucks and Manpower per gun (as known) than Artillery.

I somewhat "ignore" 1941 TOEs, since they are short termed and production is just starting, so I use the later TOEs as base for the manpower calculation.
The lack of production of DShK may be messing with those Regiment's TOE-%.

Not quite sure how one would set up the Truck efficiency formula on those 2 Rocket types (or in general). Seems like each unarmored rocket needs ~4 (the ones mounted on Trucks) while each stationary Rocket needs ~2.5.

[Q-Ball]

Another factor on Rocket vs. Artillery On-Map units is equipment availability; I think that's the deciding factor

I am finding in late 1942 that the Red Army is already hand-to-mouth on Heavy Artillery (152 ML-20), and in Artillery (122mm), so finding a bunch more for Artillery Division is impractical, and will be robbing from Rifle and Army Artillery units.

Rockets, on the other hand, are plentiful; basically unlimited with Soviet production. Not many other units call for them, so there's plenty in the pool

[Wiedrock]

Also worth mentioning, as M60 said before, is that all MOT Soviets get +5NM (from 09/1942 or so) and those "on map rockets" are MOTORIZED, so since they will end up with +10Guards+5MOT NM, so 15 more NM than non Guards Artillery Divisions and have MOT MP (max 50MP) as well.
In some AI games in the past I have seen some weird Rocket Brigades with NON-MOT (3) which shouldn't be possible, no idea how they arrived/happened or if the AI simply did some magic.

I am finding in late 1942 that the Red Army is already hand-to-mouth on Heavy Artillery (152 ML-20), and in Artillery (122mm), so finding a bunch more for Artillery Division is impractical, and will be robbing from Rifle and Army Artillery units.

How many Artillery(all) Regiments do you have?

[Q-Ball]

I am finding in late 1942 that the Red Army is already hand-to-mouth on Heavy Artillery (152 ML-20), and in Artillery (122mm), so finding a bunch more for Artillery Division is impractical, and will be robbing from Rifle and Army Artillery units.

How many Artillery(all) Regiments do you have?

Great question, Wiedrock....sorry for delay, I was waiting for turn back to to look it up.

I have a total of 175 Artillery units, including 81 Army Artillery (Heavy Artillery), 22 Cannon (122mm Field Gun), and 42 Howitzer (122, etc) units. I have built all 20 Howitzer Brigades available, so maxed-out on the 72-tube units.

I am playing with TB Control OFF, so there are nearly 50 Artillery units stuck in TB boxes; otherwise I would probably be recalling many of those and replacing with LIght Artillery or Mortar units, something I have plenty of

MInus the TB units, I have about 130 Artillery SUs available; with over 60 active Army HQ on the Map, that doesn't seem like a massive number.

I would say MOST Artillery slots are filled, though new builds are taking awhile to fill-up. It's only in Infantry Guns that I have open slots all over the map; production is just too light on those!

Although production is only 6 per week, I am pretty good on 122mm Field Guns, with 75 tubes in the active pool; I could probably build 1 or 2 more, but don't want to go crazy. (THere are 279 107mm guns, so maybe I should)

[56ajax]

I am finding in late 1942 that the Red Army is already hand-to-mouth on Heavy Artillery (152 ML-20), and in Artillery (122mm), so finding a bunch more for Artillery Division is impractical, and will be robbing from Rifle and Army Artillery units.

How many Artillery(all) Regiments do you have?

Great question, Wiedrock....sorry for delay, I was waiting for turn back to to look it up.

I have a total of 175 Artillery units, including 81 Army Artillery (Heavy Artillery), 22 Cannon (122mm Field Gun), and 42 Howitzer (122, etc) units. I have built all 20 Howitzer Brigades available, so maxed-out on the 72-tube units.

I am playing with TB Control OFF, so there are nearly 50 Artillery units stuck in TB boxes; otherwise I would probably be recalling many of those and replacing with LIght Artillery or Mortar units, something I have plenty of

MInus the TB units, I have about 130 Artillery SUs available; with over 60 active Army HQ on the Map, that doesn't seem like a massive number.

I would say MOST Artillery slots are filled, though new builds are taking awhile to fill-up. It's only in Infantry Guns that I have open slots all over the map; production is just too light on those!

Although production is only 6 per week, I am pretty good on 122mm Field Guns, with 75 tubes in the active pool; I could probably build 1 or 2 more, but don't want to go crazy. (THere are 279 107mm guns, so maybe I should)

How many are actually needed? Many of mine havent been committed to battle as parts of then Frontm are very stable. Perhaps i could use these resources elsewhere.

[Wiedrock]

I have a total of 175 Artillery units, including 81 Army Artillery (Heavy Artillery), 22 Cannon (122mm Field Gun), and 42 Howitzer (122, etc) units. I have built all 20 Howitzer Brigades available, so maxed-out on the 72-tube units.

You mean the 84-gun Howitzer Brigades? The 72-tubes are the "light Artillery Brigades".
I assume you have disbanded all the Corps Artillery + other "bad" SUs as you planned it before?

I am playing with TB Control OFF, so there are nearly 50 Artillery units stuck in TB boxes; otherwise I would probably be recalling many of those and replacing with LIght Artillery or Mortar units, something I have plenty of

MInus the TB units, I have about 130 Artillery SUs available; with over 60 active Army HQ on the Map, that doesn't seem like a massive number.

2/HQ seems rather low indeed. But with another +4 Mortar Battalions you are fine I suppose.
The Light Artillery Regiments could be a "good" alternative to "nothing" if the TOE wasn't off with way too many men.
If you play the current .exe version you can also use the Rockets as a replacement (at least in offense they should perform alright).

Although production is only 6 per week, I am pretty good on 122mm Field Guns, with 75 tubes in the active pool; I could probably build 1 or 2 more, but don't want to go crazy. (THere are 279 107mm guns, so maybe I should)

With your (assumed disband) of the other SUs (Corps SUs), you can pretty neatly control the consumption of the Medium Field Guns, good idea.
Do you know how to use the "P"roduction windown → bottom "Ground Element Map"? Just looking at the "Pools" may at times give wrong impessions about the equipment situation.

How many are actually needed? Many of mine havent been committed to battle as parts of then Frontm are very stable. Perhaps i could use these resources elsewhere.

6SUs can be comitted. With the "special Artillery rule" (at defense, if HQ didn't move and what other fators are influencing it and the chances to actually succeed in using this special rule), you can have like up to 9 Artillery SUs per HQ in one Battle afaik.
So if you have unused SUs at place X I suppose you can move some to place Y to get some specific HQs to 10-12 (or so), maybe?!

EDIT, the rules:

23.6.1. Support Unit Commitment
The maximum number of attached support units that can be committed by
headquarters units to a single battle is 6, with the exception where the defending
combat units are in a light urban or heavy urban hex, where the maximum is 18.

[...]

HQ units that have moved during the current player-turn will see -1 deducted from the
initiative value when determining if an attached Support unit is committed to a
deliberate attack.

[...]

Errata: Undocumented rules
For a deliberate attack there are some important modifiers. If the attacker (in the
current phase) or the defender (in the previous phase) has moved the relevant
HQ there is a -1 modifier to the chance of a Support Unit being committed. If the
attacker has not moved their HQ in the current turn, then there is a +3 bonus to
the chance of a Support Unit commitment.
As a reminder, the relevant leadership value for these checks is their initiative
score.

23.6.2. Defender Artillery Special Commitment
Artillery support units attached to a defending HQ unit have priority to be committed
into a battle during a special commitment phase. During this round of commitments,
defending HQ units have a chance of committing 3 more than the normal limit of
Support Units (so 9 or 21 instead of 6 or 18). After this round, the normal commitment
round is conducted.

[Q-Ball]

Thanks Weidrock for reply!

Yes, I have disbanded all Corps Artillery and BM Howitzer units....there are still some in locked TBs, but can't do anything about those.

I would love more Mortar Bn, but I don't have enough of a surplus of 120mm Mortar to do so.....I have about 80 of those Mortar units. I don't think I can go higher without cheating Rifle units, and I don't want to do that.

I think I am stuck with not really enough Artillery SUs; I haven't been assigning Armor SUs to Army HQ (I always direct attach them) so I suppose I could start doing that just to fill slots.

Another idea, as you suggested, might be to build alot of Heavy Rocket Bn, to at least have something there. I have plenty of Rockets, so it's better than nothing. The only question is whether it's worth the VEHICLE allocation.

And yes, I know the difference with "Active" and "Transit" pools; I have quite a few guns in transit pools all the time, but seems like "Active" is the best measure for where you stand vs. requirements. My active pools for Howitzers, Heavy Artillery, AT Guns, etc, are nearly always empty.

ARMOR is a whole different subject in terms of production vs. needs........

As M60 indicates, the Soviet Union produces an obscene amount of KV Tanks. I have 20 Guards Heavy Tank units right now, and still there are nearly 2000 in the pool. I just don't think it's really possible to use them all.

It's nearly the same with MEDIUM Tanks. Medium tank production for me was short through early winter of 1942, then with expansion of T-34 production really went into surplus. The pool is swimming with all types of medium; the Matilda and Valentines aren't really being used

It's in RECON tanks that there are shortages; I think alot of that is just because RECON tanks evaporate in combat. There aren't enough for open slots, and the engine is substiting T-26s and T-38/40. I don't really care much if RECON tanks aren't filled, because they don't provide much combat value. I actually prefer the T-26 to the T-60, because the gun has a chance to actually kill something. Not sure if others feel the same way about RECON tanks.....it will be a good thing IMO when they start disappearing from TOEs. Thoughts?

I have actually disbanded almost all AT REGIMENTS. Good idea, or no?

I did this because a) to me they are defensive units, and at this point I would rather direct attach a TANK unit, b) I need the AT guns for Rifle and other units, c) don't want to spend the VEHICLES on them. I feel like Rifle formations have a pretty good amount of AT guns anyway. Thoughts?

[M60A3TTS]

I would love more Mortar Bn, but I don't have enough of a surplus of 120mm Mortar to do so.....I have about 80 of those Mortar units. I don't think I can go higher without cheating Rifle units, and I don't want to do that.

OK, let's talk mortars...

First off, you don't have 80 mortar battalions, although I'm guessing that isn't what you meant. For clarification, the battalion cap is something like 16.

What you do have probably is 64 regiments either the 42a or 42b brand with a combined total cap space of 122. The 42a type are not motorized and the 42b types are, so the latter is going to be a bigger consumer of vehicles. You can build the 42a regiments in Jan 42 and the 42b's in May 1942. Both will not be eligible to convert to the 43 mortar regiment until July 1943, so there is indeed a long wait there.

42a regiment is a mix of 16 82mm mortars with the same number of 120mm's. The 42b is all 36 120mm's.

So there is something of a tradeoff here, irrespective of competing with infantry units for assets. If you want steel on target, I wouldn't hesitate to take from the infantry and give to the mortars, especially as the mortars flip to guards. Multiple guards mortar regiments with all 120mm tubes can be helpful when supporting ground attacks and are more manpower and vehicle friendly with regards to the artillery class as Wiedrock has shown.

[M60A3TTS]

I have a total of 175 Artillery units, including 81 Army Artillery (Heavy Artillery), 22 Cannon (122mm Field Gun), and 42 Howitzer (122, etc) units. I have built all 20 Howitzer Brigades available, so maxed-out on the 72-tube units.

You mean the 84-gun Howitzer Brigades? The 72-tubes are the "light Artillery Brigades".
I assume you have disbanded all the Corps Artillery + other "bad" SUs as you planned it before?

I am playing with TB Control OFF, so there are nearly 50 Artillery units stuck in TB boxes; otherwise I would probably be recalling many of those and replacing with LIght Artillery or Mortar units, something I have plenty of

MInus the TB units, I have about 130 Artillery SUs available; with over 60 active Army HQ on the Map, that doesn't seem like a massive number.

2/HQ seems rather low indeed. But with another +4 Mortar Battalions you are fine I suppose.
The Light Artillery Regiments could be a "good" alternative to "nothing" if the TOE wasn't off with way too many men.
If you play the current .exe version you can also use the Rockets as a replacement (at least in offense they should perform alright).

I would submit that the best 76mm artillery is the gun mounted on a T-34 or KV-1. Battle results consistently show that tanks have higher HPE than a lot of artillery types. That is not to say tanks are better than artillery. Firing early in the battle sequence is a big benefit. So it's combined arms all the way. But if we're talking Soviet tank regiment vs light howitzer regiment, I'll take the tank.

[M60A3TTS]

ARMOR is a whole different subject in terms of production vs. needs........

As M60 indicates, the Soviet Union produces an obscene amount of KV Tanks. I have 20 Guards Heavy Tank units right now, and still there are nearly 2000 in the pool. I just don't think it's really possible to use them all.

It's nearly the same with MEDIUM Tanks. Medium tank production for me was short through early winter of 1942, then with expansion of T-34 production really went into surplus. The pool is swimming with all types of medium; the Matilda and Valentines aren't really being used

It's in RECON tanks that there are shortages; I think alot of that is just because RECON tanks evaporate in combat. There aren't enough for open slots, and the engine is substiting T-26s and T-38/40. I don't really care much if RECON tanks aren't filled, because they don't provide much combat value. I actually prefer the T-26 to the T-60, because the gun has a chance to actually kill something. Not sure if others feel the same way about RECON tanks.....it will be a good thing IMO when they start disappearing from TOEs. Thoughts?

You just have to endure the light tanks. The mediums get kind of interesting when the American tanks arrive. The M4 is pretty respectable.

[Wiedrock]

There is a lot here, I started writing a reply like 3 times and never got it done.

So a short question by me until I find the time to properly think.
What is your target % fulfillment of Trucks inside your MAP units? ....and why is it 100%?

[M60A3TTS]

There is a lot here, I started writing a reply like 3 times and never got it done.

So a short question by me until I find the time to properly think.
What is your target % fulfillment of Trucks inside your MAP units? ....and why is it 100%?

It's 100% because the minute it falls to 99.9999%, your mech and tank corps lose MPs.

My own vehicle management is largely based on a dartboard, a Ouija board, and a pair of dice.

Let's say your vehicle pool in units is 2k short. You disband units with 2k trucks and expect the problem to be solved, but next turn you're still short 2k and the depots or vehicle pools have grown. On the flip side, you're short 2k vehicles and you build two mech corps that needs 3k trucks each. Next turn you're still down the same 2k trucks. Maybe 3k. Point is, the game moves trucks around in strange and mysterious ways.

In WiTE, the original thought was if your spare pool fell below 10k, that would be a genuine problem. One can only guess whether that same yardstick is a good indicator. If I'm short 6k vehicles in units but have 22k in the pool, am I safe to build units that need more vehicles?

[56ajax]

The first place I go looking for trucks is depots. Sometimes a depot seems to have gathered lots so I modify my supply priority etc.

[M60A3TTS]

One thing I had not realized is that on the production screen, the number of vehicles shown in depots also includes damaged vehicles that are displayed farther down. So if it says you have 150k trucks in the depots and 50k are under repair, you have 100k functional trucks in the depots.

[Joel Billings]

One thing I had not realized is that on the production screen, the number of vehicles shown in depots also includes damaged vehicles that are displayed farther down. So if it says you have 150k trucks in the depots and 50k are under repair, you have 100k functional trucks in the depots.

That's not my understanding. You can have 50k in depots and 100k in repair. These are two different items. In your case when you have 150k in depots and 50k in repair, that means you have 200k total, but 50k are damaged and not working.

[M60A3TTS]

One thing I had not realized is that on the production screen, the number of vehicles shown in depots also includes damaged vehicles that are displayed farther down. So if it says you have 150k trucks in the depots and 50k are under repair, you have 100k functional trucks in the depots.

That's not my understanding. You can have 50k in depots and 100k in repair. These are two different items. In your case when you have 150k in depots and 50k in repair, that means you have 200k total, but 50k are damaged and not working.

Of course I could be wrong, but if I pull the CSV file on depots, the total number of vehicles there show far less than what the production screen says are there. If I subtract out the # of vehicles damaged, the numbers while not exact, are far closer to the # in the .csv file. What would explain that?